Post #123,859
11/3/03 1:46:21 PM
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Picking some guns...
I'm thinking about picking up 4 firearms, two for me, and two for the little lady. I'm not exactly knowledgable about current firearms - I know more about the M1 Garand than any current firearm, and about the only thing I know about the Garand is its clip size (10) and the "SPANG!" noise that the cartridge makes when ejecting, and the tactical implications thereof.
Set #1 would be a pair of rifles. I'm 6', my wife is 5'2", so I'd think that two different rifles with two seperate power levels would be ideal. We are both of average build for our size. Accuracy and ease of use are definite pluses.
Set #2 would be "home defense" weaponry - pistol size or thereabouts. Once again, the guns would have to be proportioned towards our body mass.
Before anybody goes off raving on the advantages or disadvantages of gun ownership, these guns will go in a locked (combination) box, only to be removed for regular cleanings, or in the case of general civil disorder for home defense usage only.
Any suggestions?
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #123,860
11/3/03 1:49:08 PM
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Take a class, both of you. Try them there.
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Post #123,866
11/3/03 2:11:29 PM
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In the planning. Just wanted some input.
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Post #123,868
11/3/03 2:18:07 PM
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Home defense...
Is all about pump shotguns.
The noise is one of the most recognized weapon sounds, and a shotgun inspires fear in all but the most crazed idiots. The sound of a shell being racked alone, I've been told, will often send an intruder packing. Plus, for close in work, you don't want to have to worry about aiming too much. Buckshot will clear a hallway without missing.
Also, if someone keeps coming after hearing you rack the shell, then you know they're either deadly serious or a completely insane idiot and can take appropriate action without thinking about it too much.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #123,871
11/3/03 2:27:03 PM
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Re: Home defense...
Buckshot will clear a hallway without missing. Only problem with that is that it will also hit anything BEYOND said object. Including the door that your kid just openend. At least, that's how my house is laid out upstairs. Anything behind the intruder at the top of the stairs is my kids' rooms. -YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #123,872
11/3/03 2:32:55 PM
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Actually, I'm not being entirely accurate
Buckshot won't disperse much until beyond 7 yards or so, unless you have a sawed-off (tactical) shotgun.
A smaller shot, like #4, will disperse more quickly and is much less likely to go through a wall. However, a rifle or pistol bullet will most certainly go through anything.
The presence of children and the layout of your home will of course affect the choice you make. Better to prevent people from getting inside in the first place with proper lighting and locks. If you're worried about civil unrest, then you'll more than likely know what's coming and be able to get everyone in the house together behind the gun in the first place.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #124,261
11/5/03 10:48:23 AM
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Agreed. #1 is a dog, #2 is a pump shotgun
You don't have to be awake for a dog to defend your home. And the sound of the pump action has already been pointed out. And for real home defense during a riot, a squad automatic weapon is your friend.
Got these tips from a cop friend. Ok, not the part about the s.a.w.
Brian Bronson
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Post #124,272
11/5/03 11:52:47 AM
11/5/03 11:53:12 AM
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Problem with a s.a.w. for home use
You need a tripod. Unless you've got one for each window, you have to be ready to lug the gun and tripod to the side with the most pitchforks. It can not be fired effectively from the hip, Rambo notwithstanding.
Although, if you've got a turret on the roof ...
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Edited by drewk
Nov. 5, 2003, 11:53:12 AM EST
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Post #124,285
11/5/03 12:49:03 PM
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Don't forget the ...
The spare barrels and the boxes of ammo...
and the gloves to change the barrel...
Don't forget to cleanup the brass when you are done... recyclers don;t like Bloody Brass...
Ummm, you forgot to mention the 3000 Rounds Per Minute Cyclical Rate...
Wait, did you bring the depleted uranium rounds... or Ahhh tracers every fifth... cool.
Wanna start a fire? Wanna put one out?
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
GUNS^wWEAPONS'WE'BE...
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Post #124,291
11/5/03 1:01:57 PM
11/5/03 4:09:28 PM
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Besides, when the Angry Mob[tm] comes for me ... (9k image)
I want one of [link|http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/7e931335d515626a8525628100676e0c/9867a7c6f72a0ad08525627c006cb4ef?OpenDocument|these],
[image|http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/7e931335d515626a8525628100676e0c/9867a7c6f72a0ad08525627c006cb4ef/$FILE/MK19MOD3.JPG||||]
loaded with alternating HEDP, WP and CS.[1]
High Explosive Dual Purpose (armor piercing/fragmentation), White Phospohorus and tear gas.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Edited by drewk
Nov. 5, 2003, 04:09:28 PM EST
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Post #124,327
11/5/03 3:59:04 PM
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Oh, that's better than the hvy weapon I was considering
I thought the 155mm gun/rocket launcher from the M551 Sheridan would be handy. You have the Shillelagh to take out the vehicles, and a 155 HE shell should do in crowds quite nicely.
Brian Bronson
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Post #124,334
11/5/03 4:31:08 PM
11/5/03 4:31:37 PM
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But if they're just too aggressive . . .
. . you can make 'em regret it! Just pull the ripcord on your suitcase nuke.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #124,335
11/5/03 4:32:26 PM
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Hmm, too close to baby-bathwater. Except as last gasp
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Post #124,328
11/5/03 3:59:32 PM
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I thought it could use a bipod, too
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Post #123,869
11/3/03 2:24:10 PM
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Think about the purpose
If these are meant for home defense during a civil disturbance, I'd suggest shotguns for crowd control and automatics for backup.
-----------------------------------------
It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand.
Mike Royko
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Post #123,870
11/3/03 2:24:42 PM
11/3/03 2:35:52 PM
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Re: Picking some guns...
I agree with Another Scott...Take a class. If not two, for the different types of firearms you mentioned. Shooting a rifle != shooting a pistol.
You also should be able to go down to $YOUR_LOCAL_GUN_SHOP and try out their rental guns there. I know mine here in IL do that...So long as you have a valid FOID (Firearm Owner's ID) card.
That being said, I love my [link|http://www.glock.com/g35.htm|Glock .40 caliber semi-auto]. I don't get to take it out enough.
I'm only 5-10, so I felt that the .40 was enough; both .45's I tried felt like overkill, if you will. I squeeze shots two at a time anyway, and 2 from a .40 is enough to stop an intruder. Your little lady might think that the .40's a bit much. In that case, I would suggest the [link|http://www.glock.com/10.htm|10mm] or [link|http://www.glock.com/9x19.htm|9mm] pistols. My brother has a 9mm (I think the [link|http://www.glock.com/g17l.htm|G17L]), and he likes it. I find it a bit under-powered. If I want to stop an intruder from abusing me/my GF/her kids, then I want something I *KNOW* can stop 'em (tempered by my feelings of what's too powerful -- which is why I have the .40 instead of the .45.)
One thing that you'll need to know about Glock firearms is that there is *no external safety*. If your hand is positioned correctly and you squeeze the trigger, it *WILL* fire. There's no button to push on the side of the fun. No handle-pressure-mechanism. If you squeeze it, it will fire. The only safety is on the trigger itself. If you depress that little catch on the trigger and continue squeezing, off it goes. Some people have a serious problem with this. I personally like it, as it's one less thing to fuck with when I'm awakened by an intruder at 3am.
Update: [link|http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm|More info about Glock's Safe Action System] and [link|http://www.glock.com/trigger_safety.htm|their trigger safety mechanism].
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
Edited by Yendor
Nov. 3, 2003, 02:35:52 PM EST
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Post #123,875
11/3/03 3:26:46 PM
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Long and Short guns and hall clearers
12 guage pump for you, a 20 guage for her. Mini 14 rifle for you/her, fires a .223 like the m16 and you can still find large capacity magazines for them. A M1 or a 30-06 to reach out and touch someone >200 yards out. I like the browning highpower 9mm for a pistol but that is a very subjective and personal decision. Find a local shooting range and put some rounds thru some rental pistols. For the lady perhaps a 38 short barrel so she can hold it up into the body of the opponent and pull the trigger until empty.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #123,884
11/3/03 4:02:10 PM
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Stopping power
Compromise with ease of use - so S&W .38 special. Should be able to find bad-guy-stopper ammo too. Remember if you shoot him, drag him inside the house.
Rifles? Better off with a shotgun for protection. 12-gauge pump Remington with a loose choke.
-drl
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Post #123,891
11/3/03 4:25:14 PM
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Rifles specifically for "distance" application.
There's more than one kind of domestic disturbance, and I want to be prepared in any case. Rifles can hit stuff at ranges that shotguns just run out of oomph at.
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #123,893
11/3/03 4:27:15 PM
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Are you gonna be on the news soon?
I want to tape it.
-drl
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Post #123,896
11/3/03 4:42:35 PM
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No intention whatsoever.
I have *ZERO* plans of ending up on the news.
If the rifles become necessary, there will be about *ZERO* chance that I'll make headlines. Probably because there won't be newspapers any more...
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #123,908
11/3/03 5:27:03 PM
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I take it from that comment...
that someone either finished or is close to finishing Wealth and Democracy?
:-P
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #123,910
11/3/03 5:36:01 PM
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Finished.
And God, oh GOD am I depressed.
Not so depressed, though, to consider installing 45 calibur ventilation shafts in my skull. It would take something much worse than that to get me there - such as reliving a certain rather disturbing sequence from "Deliverance" once an hour for the rest of my life.
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #123,915
11/3/03 5:58:11 PM
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I meant your worry about general civil disturbance...
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #123,921
11/3/03 6:10:06 PM
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Well, yeah. Just wanted to add that disclaimer as well. :D
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
|
Post #123,905
11/3/03 5:14:46 PM
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Was cleaning the bedroom closet earlier this year . .
. . and came across cans containing a dozens of magazines for M1 carbine, all full. Now there is an M1 carbine under the bed with two 30 round clips (full) taped back to back, but this vast store was oviously absurd.
I sat down to consider this. I didn't remember ever having been insane, or planning to start a war, or stocking vast amounts of ammunition against an alien invasion, but there it was. Why?
Then I remembered - i'd inherrited it all from a former friend who WAS insane. His sister gave it all to me after he blew his head off with a shotgun in his parents bathroom.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #123,952
11/3/03 9:08:33 PM
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sorry pal but these days, your place is a called a compound
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #123,981
11/4/03 1:07:41 AM
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Start off with a low recoil gun for training
Buy or rent a .22 caliber gun and/or rifle and get the feel for the sights, scope, and recoil. The .22 will be like a cap-gun in recoil and you can use it to improve your aim until you can buy the higher caliber rifles and gun. Find a place somewhere that lets you try out the guns at a shooting range, try asking security guards where they train at. At the bottom of this post I included an NRA link to find a shooting range near you.
Better yet rather than buy a gun, go to the local arcade that has gun video games and practice with them first, no recoil. Play the game with your wife so she can learn too. Learn how the scope or slot works on a gun, aim the slot just under the target until you can hit it just right. Bass Pro Shops have rifle games, play Skeet shoot, Duck Hunt, Bear Hunt, to get the aiming right. Then when you start to get good, think about buying a gun.
You obviously want something that has stopping power, the ultimate for that is the Browning .50, but it takes great strength to handle the recoil. The Dirty Harry Special is the .45 Magnum, again with a heavy recoil. Won't be much left of anyone you shoot with those pistols. .38 Specials are nice, but you have to learn how a Revolver works and you are limited to just 6 shots. Make sure you learn how to brace yourself for firing one of the heavy guns, and that you learn your breathing control. Take a Hunter Safety course given by Rangers that will teach you gun safety, you will learn the NRA's Ten Commandments of handling a gun from that.
M1 Carbine was the rifle my father used in the Navy, not sure if they sell it to the public. Use whatever rifle they use on Dears or Bears, those are legal. Learn how the bolt action works, or get a Semi-Automatic Rifle if you don't want to mess with a bolt. Remember that it isn't how quick you shoot that counts, it is the accuracy.
You may want to visit the NRA website at:
[link|http://www.nra.org/|http://www.nra.org/]
This will help you find a shooting range:
[link|http://www.nra.org/frame.cfm?url=http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/findlocal.asp|http://www.nra.org/f...nge/findlocal.asp]
Tons of other interesting links. Also consider buying a few gun magazines to check out the articles and advertisement.
Good luck.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #124,190
11/4/03 9:36:26 PM
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nononononononononononono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
problem is
short range in house multiple attackers best effect
shotgun, rest is discussion of loads and gauge
intermediate range is a lot of attackers within 200 yards
lots to discuss but 223 ammo is plenty and a lot of guns take it
long range 200 yard plus, heavier cartridge straight shooting gun
30-06 or 7mm rifle an M1 is ideal or most good 30-06
real long range 600yards plus a sharps buffalo gun or replica you can purchase, 50 caliber lottsa powder
real close range, within touching distance
pistol various caliber most subjective.
At the video store its a game, this is real, every shot can kill a human being. Get used to the heviest recoil you can stand and fire often. My wife grew up hunting and she didnt get her 410 over and under 22 until she could handle a 3 inch 12 guage without snivelling.
This isnt pretend,
If you pull out a weapon be prepared to fire it
do not fire unless you are willing to kill another human intentionally
be damn sure what you are doing.
please dont be a poster boy for gun control
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #124,101
11/4/03 2:22:13 PM
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Gun Ad
[link|http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/yrtwn/seast/241seyt7.htm|http://www.dailysout...east/241seyt7.htm]
--
The rich, as usual, are employing the elected.
-- [link|http://unfit2print.blogspot.com/|http://unfit2print.blogspot.com/]
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Post #124,105
11/4/03 2:30:15 PM
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The thing about guns is...
...if you have to use them to scare an intruder out of your house, you're pretty fucked already. I'd rather have a good sword or mace - no chance of misfire, and the fucker is guaranteed disabled if you get them with a good clip. I've seen enough shit about PCP-ingesting nutzos taking 5 rounds to the chest, then getting up and coming after you that a gun just won't do it. I'd rather cut their arms off or crush their skull, it's safer that way.
Plus, you don't accidentally hit the wrong person that way.
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #124,111
11/4/03 2:44:36 PM
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I keep a sword around, actually...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #124,113
11/4/03 2:51:14 PM
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Does my ceremonial Army saber count?
It has been blooded... My brother killed a mouse with it.
"All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever."
1 Peter 1:24-25
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Post #124,114
11/4/03 2:54:35 PM
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If you can stick things with it, sure...
I also keep a 2 ft. piece of electrical cable (it's about 1.5" thick and filled with copper) under the bed.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #124,191
11/4/03 9:37:52 PM
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louisville slugger at points of entry
oh, we are baseball fans,
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #124,152
11/4/03 5:55:14 PM
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Burma shave...
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Post #124,200
11/4/03 10:41:02 PM
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Of course, you must realize . .
. . guns for self defense offer up unexpected dangers and sometimes tragedy, so you should think long and hard about having them and how you handle them. Back in my more paranoid days, not so many years ago, I had a Luger in a fleece lined pouch tucked between my matress and headboard. It was loaded and chambered. I had several questions about this thing: - Would I remember it was there and be able to reach it if the occasion came?
- Would I remember there was a safety on and how to release it?
- Would I identify first or shoot first?
- Would I fire the first shot to hit or to miss?
These questions were answered. One Saturday I decided to take a brief afternoon nap. Instead, I fell into a deep sleep. A couple of hours later I woke up with the distinct impression there was someone in the room. Remember and get? Yes, instantly; Safety? Off without thinking; Identify or shoot? Identify first; Fire to miss or hit? Miss - had I fired at all. Those last two were very deliberate decisions made in the moment - I remember my reasoning to this day. It's a good thing I answered as I did, because the person in the room was the lady I'd invited over for dinner. She said the whole process took under 2 seconds. [link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #124,204
11/4/03 11:11:10 PM
11/5/03 12:22:45 AM
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Good story. I'm glad it turned out well!
The odds of a PCP-addled serial killer picking your particular house to attack, when you're home, when you're in a state to do something about them being there, are pretty low - even in the worst neighborhoods.
It's important for our inthane friend to realize that there are many, many possible tragedies that can occur with firearms, in addition to the obvious one of having to use them to protect himself and his loved ones from an intruder.
Guns have their place, and can be a reasonable thing to have at home in some circumstances. But it's something that should be very, very carefully considered.
My favorite uncle is a gun collector. He even has a 3 pounder cannon that he's fired at an artillery range. He's been around guns most of his life and has a great respect for them. But he shot himself cleaning a rifle once - he was lucky that the shell only grazed his index finger.... It only takes one mistake, one misinterpretation, one action without remembering something, to cause a tragedy.
[edit: typos]
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #124,207
11/4/03 11:52:25 PM
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Kids are a major consideration too
If they can get at the guns they will play with them. It matters not how much you have "educated" them or what punishments you threaten, or even what punishments you have handed out. If you hide them, they will find them. Well behaved kids or naughty kids, they will play with them, they are irresistable.
If the kids can't get at them, nor can you, at least not in "real time", so what's the point?
I have no kids and no kids ever visit here. I have loaded guns, but if kids even visited here I'd have to reconsider that.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #124,229
11/5/03 8:29:11 AM
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Finally...
Inthane ...Before anybody goes off raving on the advantages or disadvantages of gun ownership, these guns will go in a locked (combination) box, only to be removed for regular cleanings, or in the case of general civil disorder for home defense usage only.
Grygus ...If the kids can't get at them, nor can you, at least not in "real time", so what's the point?
Weapons have their place. However, locked up a weapon will only provide false security. You'd never have time to find the storage cabinet (or get to it), unlock it, load weapon, and prepare yourself to use it. Better to put bars on your windows and a vault door on the house. Prevent
Now if you're worried about civil unrest, get a good long gun and fade out into the country side. Sitting in the city would provide an opponent with too many opportunities to get you, and too many of them for you to defend yourself. Do I hear Montana calling?
"All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever."
1 Peter 1:24-25
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Post #124,265
11/5/03 10:59:26 AM
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I figure if general civil unrest breaks out...
...there will be enough warning to do the whole "unlock 'n load" thing.
Home defense requires a good blade and an ambush point, not a gun.
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
|
Post #124,288
11/5/03 12:58:28 PM
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General civil unrest
only really pounds on large cities. Small towns and rural areas hardly notice them, except that the supply of cool toys dries up.
If you're really concerned, move yourself to a city of ~50K people at the most. A city that small is unlikely to end up with large scale rioting, because it's way too likely that you personally know the people you're rioting against, and most people find that distasteful. The worst that happens in places like that is that the local elites (read: party bosses of whatever stripe) might find themselves getting strung up.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #124,344
11/5/03 5:22:51 PM
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A friend of mine has had a lot of guns
rifles, pistols all over the house, all loaded with one in the chamber with the safety off. His kid grew up amid that without incident. He always said and I maintain, that all weapons must be regarded as ready to go, so an accident cant happen.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #124,361
11/5/03 8:27:55 PM
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Having been a kid once . .
. . and remembering in great detail what the experience was like, that's a risk I wouldn't take.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #124,382
11/5/03 9:26:20 PM
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Of course, kids aren't responsible enough for firearm use
which is why they should start out with toy guns until they can demonstrate some responsibility of not aiming it at people. If they point it at someone, take it away from them. When they are old enough and can demonstrate responsibility they can move up to a BB Gun or Air Pellet gun under adult supervision only. Never let a child play with a real gun or have access to a real gun, you wouldn't let them drive a truck, why let them have access to a real gun? It is like playing with fire.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #124,409
11/5/03 11:03:29 PM
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in a real world
kids fire pistols at 3 or 4, respect the parents shotguns by being asked to shoot one at age 5 or so and encouraged to shoot regularly thru teen years. Only when the attitude of Oh well its shooting time again takes place will younguns have an atitude of its a tool. not a toy.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #124,287
11/5/03 12:56:40 PM
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And who says....
Back in my more paranoid days, not so many years ago, I had a Luger in a fleece lined pouch tucked between my matress and headboard. It was loaded and chambered. errmmm, was that a typo? You meant to type: not so many weeks ago Naw, I am just about ready to go get a membership @ the gun-shop and firing range the just opened up a couple of weeks ago. [link|http://www.silverbulletfirearms.com|Silver Bullet Firearms] --
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Are You Talking to me?
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Post #124,374
11/5/03 9:01:34 PM
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Thoughtful replies, as befits zIWE
But the seriousness with which this tack is being mulled, even here - I deem just one more reason to investigate more deliberately, the logistics of becoming Canadian.
Correctly or no, I suspect that the %-loonies (and easily-panicked) in that Northern area, just cannot come close to that of our surrealistic fantasy-besotted consumer ParaHell; just too many marlowes around hereabouts. (Be merely bilingual and: you can evade much of the fulminations re Quebec VS Anglos. Hardly a death-struggle, that little set-to.)
The next node is most apt to be, minutes/days after the next 'bomb' type thing on These Hallowe'ed Shores (we don't much care about heaped dead bodies anywhere else, at any time). But I also suspect that - that event will also mark a certain new reluctance on the part of Canadian entry points.. to accept an onslaught of polyestered folks in UAVs, screaming sanctuary!
Ashton
hindsight may reveal that This was the time..
Oh well. Mine's a tiny town. Delayed reactions, in any case.
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Post #124,383
11/5/03 9:27:38 PM
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question to all
This seems to be a more heavily-armed group than I had realized, and I must remember to ramp up my already usually mandarinate courtesies in future. However: has anyone here ever actually been on the receiving end of a home invasion? The level of paranoia is a bit surprising, and I wonder whether you're all carrying after being raped and pistol-whipped in the family room of a Sunday night, or after your friends and/or relatives were carved up like the Christmas roast by PCP-crazed Satanist serial killers, or...or is it just that film, television entertainment and of course your local Fearmonger News ("PCP-crazed Satanist serial killers sacrifice area infant to Moloch! Details at eleven, plus sports and weather, here at Fearmonger Five!") have between them left everyone with the impression that it's a darned dangerous world out there? Come to think of it--egad, if even name of self-professedly unbalanced iwethey member ninny redacted here is packing heat, then it is a dangerous world...
warily,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #124,388
11/5/03 9:41:02 PM
11/5/03 10:25:01 PM
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I chalk it up to paranoia
just in case someone is out to get you, you might as well pack some heat. To be on the safe side, for sure. As IMric says "paranoia is a survial trait". As I've been known to say "sometimes paranoia pays off".
Just having guns is a deterant to people to leave you alone. Leave some gun magazines (reading material, not gun clips) in the car, display your NRA sticker on your house and car windows. Let the world know that you are packing heat and even the craziest of crazies will think twice before provoking you. In Missouri, we have a concealed weapon law on the books now. Anyone could potentially be packing heat.
I myself would only use guns if physically provoked or threatened. So written abuse in a forum is not grounds for locking and loading. I am not that crazy. Also I am very forgiving, so nothing to fear from me.
I've had people mess with me, mostly my outside property because they know if they get into my house, they might face the business end of a gun. I've had my car windows smashed, lawn messed with, even someone tried to break into the garage, but never the house. I've dealt with some raging psychopaths before who just don't know when to quit, but I haven't seen or heard from them lately.
Of course the Satanists don't bother me any more ever since they did a background check on me and discovered I had three 6's in my birthdate. I just gave them a "Damien Thorn" stare straight out of "The Omen" movies and they ran away. :)
When I lived in Saint Louis city, I had that "Crazy White Boy" look about me that kept the muggers and other thugs away. Mumbling about having no job, no money, no hot water in the apartment and the next person who hassles me will regret it sort of helped. :)
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
Edited by orion
Nov. 5, 2003, 10:25:01 PM EST
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Post #124,414
11/5/03 11:19:08 PM
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Fluffy, White, boy...
Norm, I am sure you mean well with your posts lately.
I am sure you believe you could and will whoop some ass...
I am also sure... I'd peg you long before you could even realize it was me.
I am sure, you really need to ... sell any weapons you have, please.
I am extremly sure guns in your hands or your kids... even play ones... BAD idea.
This ain't worth the time it took to write. But heed it.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
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Post #124,418
11/5/03 11:49:46 PM
11/6/03 12:47:16 AM
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Relax
don't worry about me, I can handle myself. I've gotten better since I've been in the hospital.
A man has to protect his family somehow.
Maybe you could peg me before I'd realize it was you. But do you have any reason to? Over posts made on IWETHEY? If so, you are the one that needs to sell his weapons not me.
Don't even try to take away my rights, the NRA is on my side.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
Edited by orion
Nov. 6, 2003, 12:47:16 AM EST
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Post #124,502
11/6/03 2:06:14 PM
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Re: I chalk it up to paranoia
Check out the one-year stock chart on this company (symbol TASR):
[link|http://www.taser.com/|http://www.taser.com/]
Amazing....and by the way, they do have a line of consumer products.
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Post #124,506
11/6/03 2:28:34 PM
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Taser, a good product.
Problem is if you Taser the perp, they can come back and sue you, or just wait to get out of jail and return to your house later with friends or guns.
Good product, as long as they aren't wearing body armor or padding. Still not something I would want a child to have access to.
Could also use a Tranq Gun and wait until the Police arrive.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #124,527
11/6/03 4:54:42 PM
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Look at the Damn thing...
[link|http://www.taserx26.com/features/xfeatures.swf|The X26]
Looks like a Freaking Gun you'd find in DeusEx... or something.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
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Post #135,750
1/14/04 4:44:37 PM
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Remember this company?
Shares of Taser International closed at a record high Wednesday after the maker of stun guns declared a three-for-one stock split.
The shares rose $14.50, or 14.3 percent, to $115.75, in their heaviest trading since Taser went public three years ago.
Wish I had bought some when I posted my first message! Oh, well....
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Post #135,751
1/14/04 4:47:29 PM
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Let's go with this
Clearly, there are a lot more security people who need non-lethal force items.
Let's invest in Pat Boone records.
-drl
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Post #135,809
1/14/04 9:48:31 PM
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nonononono!!!!!!! AAARRGGGGHH!!!!!!! /me drops and shudders
same old crap, con artists ripping off fools. Ah, hell, Catholic Church it start off that way. They All do. Jesus probably had three walnut shells one pea, then he's dead and can't be questioned,
Gabriel Dupre
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #136,480
1/19/04 10:51:51 AM
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I prefer...
...[link|http://www.jinglecats.com/mp3/meowy_listen.html|"Meowy Christmas"] for my aural assaults.
Imagine "O come all ye faithful," meowed, on repeat, for six hours straight.
I have a blue sign on my door. It says "If this sign is red, you're moving too fast."
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Post #136,481
1/19/04 10:52:09 AM
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Polka style too.
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Post #124,391
11/5/03 9:50:28 PM
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Rand-om thoughts...
No, I have been fondling Firearms for 25 years...
I have Qualified as a Marine Corp Rifle Expert and Pistol Export a few times.
You learn Weapon safety relativly quickly when others in you Platoon get tackled and rifle-butted, when being unwieldy with your "loaded" rifle or pistol.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Pistol Whipped and I know it...
s/Pistol/Pussy/
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Post #124,402
11/5/03 10:38:17 PM
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Nope, just a believer.
...In my Constitutional right to [link|http://www.keepandbeararms.com/|keep and bear arms], that is. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
The fact that statistics back up my belief that an armed populace is a safe populace (don't believe me? Check out [link|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0226493644/qid=1068089524/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7823115-0270444?v=glance&s=books|More Guns, Less Crime]) doesn't hurt either. In short: Where criminals know that the populace isn't armed (like Britain), they run roughshod over said populace. Where criminals can't be sure (pick a state, any state, with a concealed carry law), they're not quite so cock-sure.
Now, I've got 2 kids running around the house. Isn't that a problem, Mike? Nope, not in my eyes. Their mother knows that I own a gun, and has seen it. The kids, however, have not. They're 5 and 6. Much too young and immature to need to know. It's locked up in a safe. That only I know the combination to (their mother doesn't even know it, and she likes it that way.)
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #124,426
11/6/03 3:10:13 AM
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Couple of points.
1. You're more likely to be robbed in the UK. True.
2. However, you're more likely to survive said robbing than in the USA.
More Guns, Less Crime, More Dead People.
Increasing the murder rate by 100x is not a price we're prepared to pay over here for less non-fatal crime.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #124,518
11/6/03 4:11:04 PM
11/6/03 4:13:09 PM
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Oh, Geez. Not that again!
Edit: Added link, so you can read it yourself. ;-) ...my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms You don't have such a right. Read the Law. Read the USSC's rulings on the Law. See Miller in 1939 or Lewis in 1980, especially footnote 8, which reads, in part as follows: See United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 178 (1939) (the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have "some reasonable relationship to [445 U.S. 55, 66] the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia") [link|http://www.constitution.org/ussc/445-055a.htm|http://www.constitut...ussc/445-055a.htm] bcnu,
Mikem
Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
Edited by mmoffitt
Nov. 6, 2003, 04:13:09 PM EST
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Post #124,522
11/6/03 4:47:09 PM
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Well...
I live in Michigan...
/me looks around at the land...
Nope not a Militia in Sight... Nope notta one.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
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Post #124,613
11/7/03 12:07:42 PM
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Wasn't Terry somebody...
of the Oklahoma City bombing from Michigan? I personally know a member of the Michigan Militia up in the UP.
bcnu,
Mikem
Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
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Post #124,528
11/6/03 4:55:03 PM
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Miller case extremely doubtful
...and subject to overturning. [link|http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Silveira/TenReasons.asp|Read why]. From [link|http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html|the US Constitution's Amendments]: Article [II.]
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Let me repeat: The right of the people to keep and bear Arms. Sounds like a Constitutionally-guaranteed right to me. Again, to quote from [link|http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html|the same link]: Article XIV.
Section 1. [...]No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States[...] So here we see that Federal law trumps State law. And Federal law (as quoted above) provides me the right to KABA. -YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #124,540
11/6/03 5:36:35 PM
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Also, further reading on the definition of a Militia:
[link|http://www.keepandbeararms.com/news/nl/disp.asp?d=11/6/2003|Link]. Second story down, as it currently stands. Title is "Right to bear arms isn\ufffdt in Second Amendment"
-YendorMike
[link|http://www.hope-ride.org/|http://www.hope-ride.org/]
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Post #124,541
11/6/03 5:41:06 PM
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Only two years left on my militia duty
dang, I lose my militia rights when I turn 45. :-)
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Post #124,565
11/7/03 2:00:13 AM
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Point being...
...the constitution gives you the right to bear arms so that if needed, you can be part of said well regulated militia.
It's a conditional right; you get to bear arms if you don't mind wielding said arms on the country's behalf.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #124,612
11/7/03 12:05:45 PM
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Exactly.
Contrary to our myths (mostly developed by Colt in 1800's) most colonists didn't have guns.
There simply weren't that many around and "our" Army needed all they could get. So, hit the people up for them (what few they had anyway).
AFA "subject to reversal", interestingly Miller has been cited at least twice in subsequent USSC cases as precedent for further restrictions on firearm ownership (the ban against felons carrying them and the assault rifle ban). Hardly sounds like reversal is in the picture - they passed on at least two opportunities already - with largely Reagan/Bush appointees at that!
But take heart, Yendor, we do have a right to private firearm ownership. That is because the Bill of Rights is not an exhaustive list. Since private ownership of firearms having nothing to do with a State's militia is not contemplated by the Constitution, we have a right to private firearm ownership for as long as the Congress does not pass legislation prohibiting it.
bcnu,
Mikem
Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
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Post #124,615
11/7/03 12:12:17 PM
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ROFL!
Since 1939 the Miller case has been cited to support negative decisions in every federal circuit but the Fifth in Emerson. The Silveira cert petition exposes the poor reasoning of Miller thoroughly and asks that those parts of it that are historically and constitutionally wrong be overruled. Poorly reasoned? Would that be because the Justices can read? Think it's a coincidence the NRA quotes the amendment "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."? It's those little ...'s that give the NRA so much trouble. It's called context. Now, which argument is it again that is "poorly reasoned"? bcnu,
Mikem
Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
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Post #124,754
11/8/03 4:21:51 PM
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arnt you the same guy that whined about the USSC and bush?
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #124,905
11/10/03 9:08:47 AM
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They're supposed to determine the law, not elections.
bcnu,
Mikem
Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
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Post #124,411
11/5/03 11:12:44 PM
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A government must live in fear . .
. . of its citizens, or it gets entirely out of hand. That armaments have a similar effect on other unsavory elements is a bonus. It certainly isn't entertainment or the media in my case - my TV broke down in '58, I see about 1 movie every five years and I own no video games.
I have only military weapons - I do not believe in hunting.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #124,415
11/5/03 11:20:07 PM
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Re: A government must live in fear . .
You literally have had no television set since 1958? Amazing.
They've really improved!
-drl
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Post #124,416
11/5/03 11:24:06 PM
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No... they have not...
Technologically... yes they have.
Idealogically... No they have not. (IOW the content has gone to CRAP)
Trash TV isn;t worth the time it gets, my wife is completely HOOKED on it.
I am disgusted.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
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Post #124,421
11/6/03 1:15:43 AM
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Re: No... they have not...
Just tonight I saw a fascinating program on the Bismarck - James Cameron (Titanic) took a mini-sub and camera and scouted the wreck. One of a handful of survivors was onboard. For the first time, the fateful Swordfish torpedo strike was documented. No single piece of ordnance did more to win the war.
There is tons of great stuff of TV, and even some decent entertainment once in a blue moon. And of course, football baseball and hockey :)
-drl
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Post #124,508
11/6/03 2:45:13 PM
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I fear the other gun nuts more
I grew up in relatively rural parts of American, so we carried around guns of the longarm kind, which were openly in plain sight. I own some six shotguns and 2 rifles (30-30 & .223) I use for hunting. Although I have a healthy respect for guns, I'm not a believer that they offer much protection. About the only scenario where I see they can useful would be to ward off stray looters in times of civil emergency (tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, etc)...
Of course, there's a couple of things about guns that go with the territory. The obvious things like always treat a gun as if it's loaded. Also, if you pull a gun on someone, you better be prepared to kill that person, because if you flinch and the stakes are turned around, the perpetrator will not hesitate a single moment to use your own weapon against you. There are, after all, some people that pulling guns on just makes them more irritable.
Finally, the most likely scenario that plays out in gun battle is that the persons in the altercation will know each other either directly or indirectly. Domestic quarrels or fiendish friends (or acquantances of your offspring). You are much more likely to be robbed by someone you know, then someone you don't. Maybe you think they deserve to die, but bare that in mind.
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Post #125,046
11/11/03 2:42:55 AM
11/11/03 2:52:39 AM
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Here's where to look 'em all up
[link|http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm|world.guns.ru]
And since you're considering shotguns for home defence, perhaps the [link|http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh08-e.htm|Neostead] is one you should look into.
HTH!
[Edit:] And for when you really need some punch, forget the puny [link|http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/7e931335d515626a8525628100676e0c/9867a7c6f72a0ad08525627c006cb4ef?OpenDocument|MK19 40mm] some wimp linked to -- go with the [link|http://world.guns.ru/machine/minigun-e.htm|GAU-8/A][*] in stead! ;^)
[*]: Scroll down the page a bit; it's the picture to the left of the insectoid-looking Russian helicopter (A "Hind", I think).
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Resident [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=119792|zIWETHEY pilkunnussija]
Edited by CRConrad
Nov. 11, 2003, 02:52:39 AM EST
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Post #125,111
11/11/03 10:39:52 AM
|
HA... Some Wimp!! guffaw!
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
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Post #125,118
11/11/03 10:59:28 AM
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Yeah, I'm familiar with the GAU-8/A
I'm a big fan of the A-10.
The universe makes no sense until you accept that God uses base 13.
Even then, it's still pretty dodgy.
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Post #125,136
11/11/03 12:00:30 PM
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Not at all
Note that the GAU-8/A is on chambered up to 30mm. The MK19 is 40mm.
Second, the GAU-8/A is long-barrelled, and works via high repeating rate and high muzzle velocity. IOW it's for armored targets. The MK19 has a much shorter barrel, allowing high-explosive and gas rounds. We were talking mob defense, weren't we?
Third, the MK19 can employ indirect fire. So you can lob rounds over the defenses rather than rely on demolishing them.
Fourth, the MK19 is man-portable. The GAU-8/A needs to be mounted to a sturdy frame.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #125,141
11/11/03 12:11:43 PM
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<voice type="JORGHAN VONSTRANGLE">
You wimpy PHP-CODER... Your Frame is not MANLY ENOUGH to HANDLE the greater than 4 Tons of Recoil? Bah...
I am here to... PUMP... YOU UP!
Get on ze ground give me 8000! NOW!
Wand-ups next!
</voice>
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
|
