IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New You misunderstand my situation.
Yeah, it's 12:30 am. I'm wracked with insomnia lately.

Believe me, I'm quite aware of the 95%/5% ratio. I'm not just focusing on the Microsofts - I'm applying anywhere that will have me. What I'm seeing is either a) they're offering $10-12/hour or b) they want 12+ years of experience in Java development. (Okay, not that - but you get the idea.)

Warning: The following may contain some whining. It may also contain some valid questions. It most definitely WILL contain some personal information.

Here's my situation before I got laid off in January:

I was making $3250/month before taxes, with no benefits that I didn't pay for myself. $19.50/hour, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year (in theory).

My wife makes ~$2500/month. She's got a Masters in Psychology. That racked up some serious student loans, which are pretty nasty. Basically, her salary covers rent and her student loans.

My salary went to trying to pay down some extra debt we incurred when both of us had major car trouble a couple years back, and covering her new car, since her old one had pretty much died. We had almost no savings. Not having a car is Not An Option - unless you consider 3+ hour bus rides each way to and from work an option.

I'm not asking for a job that brings in $50-75k per annum - I'm looking for a reasonable, entry level job. Something that my wife and I can actually a) pay the bills and b) get a little bit ahead in, and maybe even c) start a family someday.

Now to venture into some Washington state esoterica:

1) If you want to have kids, you MUST have them supervised at all times, or else they will be taken away by the state.
2) Each gender of child must have it's own bedroom - if you have all boys or all girls, you can get by on a 2br apartment, but if you have a boy and a girl, you must have a 3br apartment.
3) Most people don't get much examination on this front, but since my wife is a registered mental health therapist who works with children, she's under much closer scrutiny than most people, except for possibly crack mothers and opponents of the current political regime.
4) If you want to live anywhere near Seattle, AND get an apartment that would allow the "having of children", you are looking at $1,500 - $2,000 a month in rent.
5) Why is living near Seattle important? Well, that's where pretty much ALL the computer jobs are. I think I've sent about 12 resumes to Tacoma (30 miles south of the edge of Seattle), and I haven't even SEEN one in Everett (50 miles north) for something like four months now.
6) If we're going to move, we have no savings to do it on - and so if we're going to move, I need to make significantly more than I was making here so that we can save SOME money for moving expenses.
7) Cars are a Must Have in Seattle - the transit system to the suburbs sucks. Once you get to a hub, it's okay - but it's either a 15 minute drive from my apartment to the nearest hub, or a 1.5 hour bus ride. :P
8) The computer jobs I'm seeing right now pay ~$10-12/hour. There are jobs out there I qualify for that pay more, but nobody's responding to my resumes, (I've had three interviews) and I'm making about the same on unemployment, so it's almost not even worth my time. Besides, if I took a job like that, we'd be back where we started - up to our eyeballs in debt, with no way of climbing out of it.

Now, I'm not begging for a free ride - I do agree with broomberg's assessment of business attitudes towards employment - but I'm trying to honestly assess if I should continue to hold out, or work towards changing my career. There is literally diddly/shit out there for work in my market, and it's screwing the prices all to hell. It doesn't help that we're massively in debt due to some Serious bad luck - and I'd like to buy a house in this lifetime, so I'm trying VERY hard to avoid bankruptcy.

Folks, I'm not whining about not pulling in $50-75k a year - I'm whining about not being able to break $25,000 a year WITH A FSCKING BACHELOR'S DEGREE. Hell, my WIFE barely breaks $25k with a MASTERS. Admittedly, she's in public service, which is why she's getting shafted, but HOW THE FSCK do they expect people to a) Pay exorbitant rent, b) save a little towards retirement, c) afford kids, and d) get to and from work?

And then I look at the firefighters - and they offer $50k/year plus excellent benefits, AT THE START.

All I gotta do is buff up.

THAT is why I'm asking the questions I'm asking. Not because I'm a whiny computer nerd who thinks he deserves a handout, but because I'm trying to figure out a way to pull myself up in this darwinistic heap.

Oh, and as far as sales goes? I'd do it if it was the last job availible to me, but I have a lower respect for sales jobs than practically any other work on the planet. Basically, it's some goober inserting himself between the producer and the consumer, and skimming his living off the top of it, without adding much real value. Yeah, I know there's more to it than that, but to me, it's not an honest living.
InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
New Go be a firefighter
then, when they say, "hmmm we need a new system..." say, "I can write that."

Gravy.
---------------------------------
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
New What do you know...
...besides software? How do you make yourself stand out from all of the other code monkeys? There are jobs out there but you have to know where to look and know how to get your resume to the top of the pile. Try to leverage the non-CS part of your education/work experience into landing a job with a company that doesn't specialize in software as its only product but rather uses software as part of the business in producing a product or running the company.

For example, my company, a biotech in Silicon Valley, has multiple openings in software development/QA for internal projects but even with the ton of resumes we are getting, the pickings are slim. We need programmers and testers that have some biology background - a very rare combination. A couple upper division courses in biology or biochemistry is usually enough to get your foot in the door.
Ray
New It's also who you know
If someone at the company already knows you, it really helps you (lowers the "sales resistance" to hiring you since you're a known quantity, not just a resume).

I suspect that many of the most interesting software development jobs in Silicon Valley never make it onto the public "programmers" job sites. Unfortunately, we're not hiring, so I can't be a connection.

And, yes, domain knowledge is critical. For example, if you're not interested in learning about mechatronics, you wouldn't be a good fit at my company (heck, I enjoy my time with the wrenches, even if it scares some co-workers!). I'd rather hire a ME interested in automation and teach them programming than hire a CS major who is only interested in latest programming fads.

Tony
New Well, now, that's the rub, ain't it?
The main problem is exactly as you describe it - I've been focusing so hard on Comp. Sci. in my studies that I don't have any "official" secondary skills. Yeah, I should have spread out a bit... :P

As far as friends on the inside - my acquaintences have been casting around (Hey Brandioch, got any openings?) but not much luck there. In fact, most of the people I know are so busy holding on to their own jobs they're afraid to even suggest other people for employment...
InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
New Can you stay in school for another year?
Take some classes to round out your skills, do an honors project to make your resume stand out, ride out the recession...

BTW, is your resume online?
Ray
New Unfortunately, no.
Student loans are racking up to the point where I can't really keep on going - and worse yet, the only "alternative" program at the school I could get into would be MBA.

I'd rather be a firefighter.
InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
New Well, I'll keep a look out
but will make no promises. The local economy (Silicon Valley) is looking up a bit (semiconductor is finally turning the corner), although major portions (e.g. fiber optics) are still totally depressed.

Tony
New Only a few angles to offer..
It appears that we share a similar POV re the entire massive topic you sum-up as 'sales' (?)

(Hitler referred derogatorily to the Brits as, a nation of shopkeepers .. Unfortunately for him, he failed to recognize that, "running your own little shop" necessitates the accumulation of lore in a wide range of skills, planning, etc. Of course he missed quite a few other things as well.)

So I differentiate between er sales-droid, a 'person' (but hired as if an interchangeable commodity) to spin / hawk warez of whatever utility or none and, the simple fact that:

Whatever you 'do' - you are selling Something; your skills, reputation about those skills, etc. My impression after now many years at IWE and elsewhere [but never in Your field] is that:

Most IT folk now - certainly at entry-level - and increasingly further up the ladder - are indeed being treated like a majority of Other People out there, by the Suited-Ones - indirectly thus, by the Suited-Ones' selected deputies: as

COMMODITIES.

Period. Proof? What's that acronym again, for hiring cheap Overseas slave-labor (and they *are* slaves = unable to bargain for better conditions, move to another company, etc). No Rights = exactly as for anyone on what's left (and dwindling fast) of 'welfare' - get a Social-sociopath droid handling your case and you have No Rights.

Ah yes, the Econ folk shall cite 'The Market' and 'Supply and Demand' and property rights and other Interesting aspects; still - HR___ is the perfect example that, IT has joined the other trades as commodity fodder, officially. Whether you want to or not - you are involved in WTO, Nafta and the other rubrics via which we are moving at speed towards a Two-Class very Unstable, increasingly Angry culture (we're already there, actually IMhO).

As others have advanced - If one has a very-great capability in a difficult part of the ladder, it hasn't gotten unbearable in Corporate bizness. Yet. You are honest enough to assess where your best talents are, and thus estimate prospects today. (I'd say that that nitty-gritty personal Honest assessment ought not ever to appear here, if ya catch my drift.) No one should go on record beyond a certain degree, in a culture where so much daily lying is a necessity of employment, and where one's entrance to a job - is via something called HR, with all the science as is to be found, in sociology.. behind that selection).

Your degree probably still carries the universal weight: hey, the guy was able to eat a lot of shit, produce on time and - finish. It ought to be as useful beyond IT. Luck seems to determine if.. you stumble onto an unusual request in quite another field, and you and they conclude that you can get up to speed, 'cause ya know how to think. Remember how rare that ability is becoming?

I will light a candle.. that you don't have to choose between a pure sales-droid job and eating. And you're too smart to dump the remaining benefits for an equally unprofitable alternative - till they run out.


Cheers,

Ashton
     How dead is the U.S. software industry? - (inthane-chan) - (90)
         You only need one job. Don't believe the hype. - (Another Scott)
         Pick a minor - (orion)
         It's not dead - (broomberg) - (87)
             It's pining for the Fjords! - (orion) - (68)
                 Good One, Orion!____ [but..___ look at the lovely plumage!] -NT - (Ashton)
                 Wrong analogy - (broomberg) - (66)
                     Okies... - (folkert)
                     Damn Politics! - (orion) - (31)
                         Sigh - (ben_tilly) - (30)
                             No new clog - (orion) - (29)
                                 You always have a choice. Always. Hang in there. -NT - (Another Scott) - (24)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion) - (22)
                                         You have lots of choices. - (Another Scott)
                                         You only have one choice - (boxley) - (2)
                                             Thanks Bill - (orion) - (1)
                                                 *smile* - (imric)
                                         Why do you seem so convinced that your wife is a bitch? - (CRConrad) - (17)
                                             If I lose the house - (orion) - (16)
                                                 But, Y the F wouldn't U live in SAME apt with wife & son ?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (15)
                                                     Why wouldn't I? - (orion) - (14)
                                                         What you're saying is, she'd let you starve. Nice marriage. -NT - (CRConrad) - (9)
                                                             nope, his pride not her problem -NT - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                 Yeah, but that's what HE is saying here. - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                                     Warehouse job - (orion) - (2)
                                                                         your last paragraph better be a humor - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                             Re: your last paragraph better be a humor - (orion)
                                                             No, what I am saying - (orion) - (3)
                                                                 could take a while anyway :) be good for you -NT - (boxley)
                                                                 What you're saying is pure fucking bullshit. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                     What are you saying? - (orion)
                                                         Just for curiousity... - (hnick) - (3)
                                                             Doesn't work in reality - (orion) - (2)
                                                                 Actually, it does - (hnick)
                                                                 Something to do in the meantime... - (Another Scott)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion)
                                 You always have more choices - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                     What I have been doing - (orion) - (2)
                                         The Public Face versus The Private Face. - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                             I am doing what I can to survive - (orion)
                     Your description seems accurate. But the 'Plan' is fscked. - (Ashton) - (32)
                         And your alternative is? - (broomberg) - (31)
                             "Unless you disagree with basic property rights" - (Ashton) - (2)
                                 Godwin -NT - (broomberg) - (1)
                                     Re: Godwin: just history (German !=Nazi, one hoped) -NT - (Ashton)
                             Is it my imagination, or is that really... - (CRConrad) - (27)
                                 I dunno about founding fathers - (broomberg)
                                 Barry's assessment of how to work in this biz is correct - (boxley)
                                 It's not just us. - (mmoffitt) - (23)
                                     So much bull, so little time. - (Arkadiy) - (22)
                                         Shto? - (mmoffitt) - (21)
                                             You cannot be free without private property. - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                 How about "kak?" -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     "kak" is "how" while "chto" is "what". -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                                                         I know. I was kidding. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                             I tried a cut and paste of Russian from pravda.ru ... - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                 Hmm.. Cyrillic in Moz? - (Ashton)
                                                             Brezhnev... - (Arkadiy)
                                             This is just sooo rich! - (Arkadiy) - (13)
                                                 Nyet. - (mmoffitt) - (12)
                                                     Agreed. - (Arkadiy) - (11)
                                                         No, I wouldn't. - (mmoffitt) - (10)
                                                             The freedom to read requires the freedom to own the book - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                                                                 Do you "own" library books? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                     cuba does not recognise personal property - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                         Clarification. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Bullshit, I think. (Goes for the Soviet Union too, BTW.) - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                             Individual belongings versus private property. - (Arkadiy)
                                                                     No. Library does. - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                         Ah, but who owns the library? The People do ;-) - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Guess I don't see any real argument here. - (Ashton)
                                                                 And she did finish that book (I saw her) ;-) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                 Property rights - (orion)
             Right on; most software isn't shrink wrapped - (tonytib)
             You misunderstand my situation. - (inthane-chan) - (8)
                 Go be a firefighter - (tseliot)
                 What do you know... - (rsf) - (6)
                     It's also who you know - (tonytib) - (5)
                         Well, now, that's the rub, ain't it? - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                             Can you stay in school for another year? - (rsf) - (1)
                                 Unfortunately, no. - (inthane-chan)
                             Well, I'll keep a look out - (tonytib)
                             Only a few angles to offer.. - (Ashton)
             Looks 'tits up' to me. - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                 I dunno, you tell me - (broomberg) - (6)
                     HOLY ****! - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                         That's what I thought - (broomberg)
                     Not too shabby - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                         Based on your description - (broomberg) - (1)
                             Based on your.... - (folkert)
                     Same here, pretty much. - (admin)

Jump, jive and wail!
222 ms