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Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Looks 'tits up' to me.
Hey Broomie, I'm not sure where you are located, but those salaries look pretty low to me for really qualified professionals. Or are you just looking for fry cooks? Of course, you'd have to compare the average cost of a house and get the cost of living/wage ratio to be sure. Does $50k translate into $100k in BABs (Bay Area Bucks)?

Anyhow, Thane, I exited university in 1989 with a BS in Petroleum Engineering. So while I have training and certifications saying I know how to bore holes several thousand feet into mother earth and suck out her juices, the collapse of OPEC in the late 80's guaranteed my total unemployability. I did things like work the desk at a truck rental company, stuck labels on floppy diskettes, branded cattle, did word processing, etc. I was sure the oil business was dead.

The oil business came back eventually, but never like it was and by then I had moved on to a career developing software. My advice to you is just finish whatever degree you are working on, then get out and network yourself a job. You never know what kind of work you're going to take to or how your career is going to move. Don't worry too much about it. You'll eventually fall into something you like. But you gotta have a degree (in anything).

As for the business of developing software - its pushing up the daisies. Throughout the 90's the Denver Post had 2-4 pages of large ads for software developers and about the same number of little want ads. Last week I was in Denver and there were about 1.25 columns of obliquely computer related jobs. Vendor or enterprise, the market is glutted with a huge number of java-loving no-talent ass clowns confusing the recruiters and disappointing the hiring managers and shareholders to no end.

Its going to take awhile for the chaff to settle out and go join the peace corps. Meanwhile, I spend whole days trying to get a department of developers to figure out how to remove a key from a Map. Whatever. Hell, I have MIT grads who what to know what "that patterns book" is about. Good people are in short supply, but nimrods are ubiquitous.

Good luck. Don't get too down and do take any piece of work you can get regardless of how far beneath you it may appear to be at the time. Often the most amazing set of circumstances can lead you to a real plum job, but you gotta get into the game to become exposed to the circumstances.
The average hunter gatherer works 20 hours a week.
The average farmer works 40 hours a week.
The average programmer works 60 hours a week.
What the hell are we thinking?
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:41:36 AM EDT
New I dunno, you tell me
My house is a 4 bedroom center hall colonial in a good suburban neighborhood with good schools.

It is about $180K, and the pricing is the norm for this type of house. How does that compare?

I'm not in the sticks, though, so I am close to pretty much everything.


I live about 15 minutes from center city Philadelphia, and am close to the local train if I wanted to work in center city without driving.
New HOLY ****!
$180k for a 4 bedroom colonial? NEAR some kind of commuter center?

In Seattle, that would probably go for $4-500k. Easy.
InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0
New That's what I thought
So you can see I feel mildly insulted when Todd
tells me I'm offering fry cook wages.

Near a commuter central?

Hell, I could WALK to the high speed line
in about 35 minutes. Bike in under 10.

And parking is 25 cents if I drive.
New Not too shabby
Compare to Sausalito - Average home price around $600k and homes are on the small shack side - probably a 2 bedroom 1300 sq ft affair. I beat the system by living off land.

So you're paying around 1/3 the cost of a home per year, same job should be $200k here. More likely, the developers can be got for slightly over $100k which means we are getting hosed in this part of the world.

Still, the scenery is a little better here.

I just like to point out that numbers in a vacuum are just that - numbers. I think wages should be advertised in housing units. Its telling that only 3 percent of people living in the bay area can afford to buy a home. Actually, its criminal.

Kill the landlord, kill the landlord. (Eddie Murphy)
The average hunter gatherer works 20 hours a week.
The average farmer works 40 hours a week.
The average programmer works 60 hours a week.
What the hell are we thinking?
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:42:00 AM EDT
New Based on your description
My house would cost about a million dollars.

4 bedrooms w/ 2 bedrooms rather large, big enough
for king size bed and comfortable spacing around.
walk in cedar closet.
laundry room
2 1/2 bath
den
eat in kitchen
formal dining room and living room
basement
2 car garage

It is about a 45 minute drive to the Jersey shore.
Crappy waves, though.
1.5 hour drive to the Poconos.


Now are there any qualified takers for the jobs I mentioned?
New Based on your....
description of the place to work... I'd do it in a heartbeat... but...

I am in a slow area myself picking up the slack other can't do.

In the last month, I have cleared just under $25K after material and service costs, but before taxes and such, in side jobs...

I have finally gotten my reputation where I want it... and could actually lose my job and survive very well.


greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!
New Same here, pretty much.
25 miles north of Detroit, we bought a 4-br colonial on a hyarge corner lot (bleah, I have to mow it) for $155K 6 years ago. Current asking is probably around $250K or so, but we've completely gutted and replaced two rooms, one of which was the kitchen.

Great neighborhood, good schools (I think, we're homeschooling for other reasons).

About 10 minutes from work, 20 minutes to anything else we would need tops.

Suburb, but countryish. Cider mills, a few miles from farms, etc.

45 minutes to the Detroit Symphony or Art Museum.

Edit: Forgot to add, even when unemployment was around 20% around here last year, I was looking at jobs in the $100K+ range. Found one at $135K, took a different one for less to be a LOT closer to home (1 hour vs. 10 minutes). Caveat: I am highly skilled and talented. "Normal" computer jobs around here hit between $50K and $80K. Entry level is probably $30-35K, but I haven't looked at that recently for obvious reasons.

If you are willing to drive a half hour or more, you can live where the houses are fairly inexpensive, moreso even than mine.

2BR aparments are around $700/mo, 3BR probably about $900/mo. That's a luxury garden apartment, about 800-1000 sq ft.

Downsides here: almost all of the jobs are dependent upon the auto industry in some fashion; that's how I got laid off last year. My current job very carefully is not so dependent. ;-)
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Expand Edited by admin May 21, 2002, 11:59:54 AM EDT
     How dead is the U.S. software industry? - (inthane-chan) - (90)
         You only need one job. Don't believe the hype. - (Another Scott)
         Pick a minor - (orion)
         It's not dead - (broomberg) - (87)
             It's pining for the Fjords! - (orion) - (68)
                 Good One, Orion!____ [but..___ look at the lovely plumage!] -NT - (Ashton)
                 Wrong analogy - (broomberg) - (66)
                     Okies... - (folkert)
                     Damn Politics! - (orion) - (31)
                         Sigh - (ben_tilly) - (30)
                             No new clog - (orion) - (29)
                                 You always have a choice. Always. Hang in there. -NT - (Another Scott) - (24)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion) - (22)
                                         You have lots of choices. - (Another Scott)
                                         You only have one choice - (boxley) - (2)
                                             Thanks Bill - (orion) - (1)
                                                 *smile* - (imric)
                                         Why do you seem so convinced that your wife is a bitch? - (CRConrad) - (17)
                                             If I lose the house - (orion) - (16)
                                                 But, Y the F wouldn't U live in SAME apt with wife & son ?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (15)
                                                     Why wouldn't I? - (orion) - (14)
                                                         What you're saying is, she'd let you starve. Nice marriage. -NT - (CRConrad) - (9)
                                                             nope, his pride not her problem -NT - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                 Yeah, but that's what HE is saying here. - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                                     Warehouse job - (orion) - (2)
                                                                         your last paragraph better be a humor - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                             Re: your last paragraph better be a humor - (orion)
                                                             No, what I am saying - (orion) - (3)
                                                                 could take a while anyway :) be good for you -NT - (boxley)
                                                                 What you're saying is pure fucking bullshit. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                     What are you saying? - (orion)
                                                         Just for curiousity... - (hnick) - (3)
                                                             Doesn't work in reality - (orion) - (2)
                                                                 Actually, it does - (hnick)
                                                                 Something to do in the meantime... - (Another Scott)
                                     I have limited choices - (orion)
                                 You always have more choices - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                     What I have been doing - (orion) - (2)
                                         The Public Face versus The Private Face. - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                             I am doing what I can to survive - (orion)
                     Your description seems accurate. But the 'Plan' is fscked. - (Ashton) - (32)
                         And your alternative is? - (broomberg) - (31)
                             "Unless you disagree with basic property rights" - (Ashton) - (2)
                                 Godwin -NT - (broomberg) - (1)
                                     Re: Godwin: just history (German !=Nazi, one hoped) -NT - (Ashton)
                             Is it my imagination, or is that really... - (CRConrad) - (27)
                                 I dunno about founding fathers - (broomberg)
                                 Barry's assessment of how to work in this biz is correct - (boxley)
                                 It's not just us. - (mmoffitt) - (23)
                                     So much bull, so little time. - (Arkadiy) - (22)
                                         Shto? - (mmoffitt) - (21)
                                             You cannot be free without private property. - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                                 How about "kak?" -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     "kak" is "how" while "chto" is "what". -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                                                         I know. I was kidding. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                             I tried a cut and paste of Russian from pravda.ru ... - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                                 Hmm.. Cyrillic in Moz? - (Ashton)
                                                             Brezhnev... - (Arkadiy)
                                             This is just sooo rich! - (Arkadiy) - (13)
                                                 Nyet. - (mmoffitt) - (12)
                                                     Agreed. - (Arkadiy) - (11)
                                                         No, I wouldn't. - (mmoffitt) - (10)
                                                             The freedom to read requires the freedom to own the book - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                                                                 Do you "own" library books? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                     cuba does not recognise personal property - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                         Clarification. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Bullshit, I think. (Goes for the Soviet Union too, BTW.) - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                             Individual belongings versus private property. - (Arkadiy)
                                                                     No. Library does. - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                         Ah, but who owns the library? The People do ;-) - (mmoffitt)
                                                                         Guess I don't see any real argument here. - (Ashton)
                                                                 And she did finish that book (I saw her) ;-) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                 Property rights - (orion)
             Right on; most software isn't shrink wrapped - (tonytib)
             You misunderstand my situation. - (inthane-chan) - (8)
                 Go be a firefighter - (tseliot)
                 What do you know... - (rsf) - (6)
                     It's also who you know - (tonytib) - (5)
                         Well, now, that's the rub, ain't it? - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                             Can you stay in school for another year? - (rsf) - (1)
                                 Unfortunately, no. - (inthane-chan)
                             Well, I'll keep a look out - (tonytib)
                             Only a few angles to offer.. - (Ashton)
             Looks 'tits up' to me. - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                 I dunno, you tell me - (broomberg) - (6)
                     HOLY ****! - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                         That's what I thought - (broomberg)
                     Not too shabby - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                         Based on your description - (broomberg) - (1)
                             Based on your.... - (folkert)
                     Same here, pretty much. - (admin)

Sharp as a balloon.
124 ms