Post #327,869
6/12/10 9:26:51 AM
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Also, this entire interaction with me was a lesson in Jewish
thought, at least mine and how I feel the ONLY way to learn is to either experience something or research it yourself. A single viewpoint is simply that, a single viewpoint. And single reference can be bullshit.
So you need the EXPERIENCE of RESEARCHING for yourself.
There is no single thing I could have answered, at least that you'd accept.
While the Christians didn't like us because we killed Christ (according to them), the Romans before them didn't like us as well. We didn't believe in being killed and taken as slaves, and we fought to the death.
Oh, actually, I did give the single thing. Early on.
WE DON'T KNEEL.
TO ANYONE. TO ANY KING. TO ANY GOD. TO ANY PRIEST.
WE DON'T KNEEL.
We don't allow ANY entity ownership of our being, our identity, simply because someone told us to.
When you were a little kid, and you BELIEVED, part of that belief was totally giving yourself over to the God and Church that you were a part of. You BELIEVED, and it made it OK to lose your identity.
It's just like being in love. And to cap it off, the only way you are supposed to feel this level of joy is in a church sanctioned marriage. F'em.
Anything they told you at that point was because they LOVED you. Right? That was the line.
We don't simply accept whatever line of bullshit we are being fed is the truth.
We research it.
Me trying to get you to figure this out for yourself is about as core to my being as anything else.
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Post #327,871
6/12/10 10:50:06 AM
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"Go look it up" isn't helpful
You told me to look up "Jewish blood libel". On the first page were links to forums.catholic.com where someone linked to a book by a Jewish writer saying that yes, there was a Jewish sect that had sacrificed Jewish children. There was also a link to jewwatch.com. I guess you can figure out where they're coming from. Should I have believed them?
Yes, I spent some time following links, but I can only read ranting for so long. Obviously there are some people who really hate Jews. That doesn't make them accurate historical sources. Does it make blood libel the primary accusation against Jews? I can't tell.
As for the population statistics, I searched on "when did Jews move to Israel". I got no useful numbers on the first three pages of links, but plenty more ranting. I didn't think to use the term "demographics", but Box found the numbers.
I could spend a year doing research and maybe come close the amount of information about Jews that you've accumulated in your lifetime. But I won't. Understanding is important to me, but it's not the central issue in my life.
I understand what you're saying about research, but it's not the only way to learn. No one can research everything. We all have to pick and choose and, to some extent, rely on the opinions of others we trust for the rest.
So I don't subscribe to your belief that research and personal experience are the ONLY way to learn. I also don't accept outrageous claims about important issues just because I heard it from the right guy with the right funny hat.
If I don't know, I'll try to find someone I trust who does know, and I'll ask them. If what they say doesn't make sense, I'll ask more questions and/or go follow up on what they've said. You know, like I've been doing for three days with you.
And we're still using the same words, but meaning different things. To you "assimilate" means "kneel". If I moved to Israel, and spent the years of research and converted, I would have assimilated into that culture. Is that kneeling?
I heard a story once of a nice Jewish boy who said, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's." Yeah, I know, wrong book. But that was written when Jesus was still a Jew, not a Christian. I read that as a lesson about assimilation. Accept that parts of the majority culture that aren't central to your identity, but keep the parts that matter.
I don't think that's a good idea because it's in the bible. I think it's one of many good ideas that happens to be in the bible, alongside a whole bunch of mythology, misogyny and hypocrisy.
--
Drew
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Post #327,875
6/12/10 2:57:07 PM
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here is a single page that covers most of it
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Post #327,876
6/12/10 3:30:15 PM
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Thanks very much.
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Post #327,878
6/12/10 5:10:27 PM
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Yes, that's what I was looking for
You might be surprised (or not) that in 7 years of attending Catholic school I never heard any of that.
--
Drew
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Post #327,880
6/12/10 5:40:14 PM
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not surprised at all
catholic school is about catholics, not others.
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Post #327,885
6/12/10 9:47:19 PM
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Good list
Now I know what to point to the next time.
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Post #327,886
6/12/10 9:53:32 PM
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Concise ergo Nice.
While I was aware of maybe 80%, the chronology and intelligent organization makes some of the 20% worth further exploration.
(I was not anti-religio as a tyke. While my mater possessed a sort of subliminal acceptance of prevailing Xian 'concepts of their God' -- she had the Good Sense not to try to point me (nor allow any proxy, as at the boarding schools, to inculcate -- beyond the 'fact' of there being periodic religio-infused assemblies there.) Consequently, as adult matters + abilities began to supersede thoughts derived from the usual treadmill of school-directed, test-oriented plots -- I came by my anti-corporate-religion decision entirely through observation, reading and then deciding from experience.
But, as crazy has been emphasizing, repeating when it does not seem to penetrate enough -- grokking the Jewish situational-history requires some considerable experience of Real History ==> that which requires (also) the delving critically into one's local, Official/National-sanctioned and Bowdlerized versions: ever to earn usage of that Real- modifier, in any aspect of the whole.
Thus ...
With the caveat succinctly stated by Mike re. overall performance of the extant government of Israel / their peculiar blindspots regarding ever Noticing the parallels between their employment of Power and ... that Usage which they have ever Fled-from:
I claim to comprehend sufficiently 'how it came to be' that Jews have been such a handy target for deflection of attention from any pol's current tight-spot. The 'kneeling' metaphor is necessary and sufficient to recognize the absolute necessity of there being Jewish Territory *somewhere* on what's left of this planet. (For me this has 0 to do with any concepts of covenants with supernaturals or other meta-Real Estate transactions.) It is simply necessary to protect these non-kneelers from every other brand-name of One True God-worshippers.
Let's SomeOne! -- get bus(ier) holding up a Mirror to the Israeli gummint Et Al, before some next action is taken to be so odious that even supporters [of the above, generally] join the brainless, slavering mobs with shouted simplicities One More Time. But with nukes.
<rest case ... for 2x4 upside heads of those myopic and amnesiac solons.>
I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
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Post #327,887
6/12/10 10:53:31 PM
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More at Sullivan: "It's much funnier in Arabic"
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Post #327,892
6/12/10 11:59:44 PM
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great, now I have to find an allen king clip
not this one, the hemeneh, hemenah one
http://www.youtube.c...tch?v=eXwqoblFlEU
great, no link but essentially the same. As a young comic dishwasher watching the old time comics doing standup the best joke was half english half yiddish. I cant explain it well enough by writing. Same effect tho, doesnt translate well into straight english.
RIP Alen, saw him live and it was a great experience
thanx,
bill
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Post #327,895
6/13/10 8:27:52 AM
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:-)
That's a funny clip.
I haven't been able to find what you're looking for, but I did find this - http://crazymotion.n...Irb9fNRrMjAy.html
:-D
Cheers,
Scott.
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