Since no one is talking about the substance ...

Post #327,507 by drook 6/7/10 2:55:23 PM Reply	Since no one is talking about the substance ... Is her premise factually correct? Do the majority of the Jews currently in Israel have roots that go back before 1948, or do the majority come from people who moved in after the creation of the modern state of Israel? I honestly don't know the answer, and wouldn't know where to look to find out. But if she's correct that most of the Jews in Israel moved in after 1948, then she has a point in calling them occupiers. As for calling it Palestine, that's what it was when she was born -- though only for a couple of years. She was 28 when it was changed. And before it was Palestine, it was Syria for 400 years. How long had England been occupying India before they were finally kicked out? What is the statute of limitations on "occupation", and when do you finally just say, "Well, they were born here, and their parents were born here, and their grandparents were born here ... I guess they're locals"? All of the arguments about whose land it is, and who was there first, sound like little kids arguing over who gets to sit in the good chair, because "I was in it first ... But I was in it before lunch ... Well I was in it yesterday ..." You know what? It doesn't matter where your great-great-grandfather lived. He's dead and gone, sorry. And if someone stole what he had, which otherwise might have been handed down to you? Well that's gone, too. -- Drew
Post #327,509 by boxley 6/7/10 2:59:52 PM Reply	lots of Israeli Jews come from arab nations yeas Im lazy so sue me http://en.wikipedia....raphics_of_Israel According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics, in 2008, of Israel's 7.3 million people, 75.6% were Jews of any background[1]. Among them, 70.3% were Sabras (Israeli-born), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim (Jewish immigrants to Israel) Â 20.5% from Europe and the Americas, and 9.2% from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[2] About 35% of all Israeli Jews are recently (first or second generation) descended from European Jews, while 25% are descended from Jews who immigrated from Arab countries, Iran, Turkey and Central Asia. In addition, 45.6 thousands (0.8%) are, or are descended from Indian Jews, and 106.9 thousands (1.9%) - from Ethiopian Jews[2].
Post #327,511 by drook 6/7/10 3:10:01 PM Reply	So according to that About 60% came from Europe or Arab countries since '48. There was already someone there. I'd think someone so attuned to the issues of American aboriginals would see their side a little more. -- Drew
Post #327,513 by boxley 6/7/10 4:48:38 PM Reply	huh? I do see both sides The PALs need their own country, no other group in the world except the jews are as hated as the palestinians. They need self rule over their own dirt as much as the Israeli's do.
Post #327,526 by Another Scott 6/7/10 8:03:12 PM Reply	I don't hear it that way. My ears tell me that she was talking about the occupied West Bank in that clip, not Israel proper - http://yidwithlid.bl...uld-get-hell.html (2nd video there). A column of hers from November seems to me to back that up - http://www.theboston...22501/detail.html : [...] Talk about threading the needle! Welcome to the Middle East tinderbox, Madame Secretary, where every word counts and tensions always run high. Have the Israelis forgotten their inherent sense of justice? How long are they going to prey upon Palestinian land and water with impunity? Why would the United States aid -- in terms of billions of dollars annually and its political support -- any country that oppresses a helpless people with its military power and daily humiliation at checkpoints and walls? Where are the voices of civil rights leaders of long ago? Settlers from all over are laying claim to land by virtue of their religion and inflicting suffering on those who have not harmed them. Simply put, they come from far away places to take other peopleÂs homes. What people would tolerate that? The U.S. didnÂt win points with the Palestinians when it rejected-- as did Israel-- the report of South African Chief Justice Richard Goldstone to the United Nations Human Rights Council which accused both the Israeli Defense Forces and Hamas of war crimes during the siege of Gaza last winter. But GoldstoneÂs harshest criticisms were reserved for the Israelis with allegations that they shot unarmed citizens and destroyed hundreds of homes, leaving them in rubble. In an interview with Bill Moyers on the Public Broadcasting System, Goldstone called the actions "outrageous" and said there should have been "outrage." The Israeli incursions into Arab land are reminiscent of RussiaÂs expansionism into Eastern Europe after World War II. Since 1967, the Israelis have pushed Palestinians out and built homes for thousands of Jews in East Jerusalem -- a site where Palestinians hope to make their capital in a future Palestinian state. [...] The cynical joy that many on the Right and many in the Israel-right-or-wrong camp have taken in twisting the ~30s off-the-cuff remarks of a far-past-her-prime reporter who has no significant power in Washington is disgusting. But not surprising. I agree with Felix Salmon - she apologized. It's a bad sign for our discourse when nobody is permitted to make a mistake and apologize and have that apology accepted. (Being infallible worked out great W and the world, didn't it?) My $0.02. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #327,534 by beepster 6/7/10 10:30:35 PM Reply	People on the Right??? Rahm is Right? Think you need to balance your viewpoint again..she's getting tossed out to dry by EVERYBODY. And it isn't right. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #327,555 by jake123 6/8/10 10:26:34 AM Reply	Yeah, Rahm is very right wing.
Post #327,564 by beepster 6/8/10 11:28:58 AM Reply	Re: Yeah, Rahm is very right wing. No. Very Jewish maybe. Right wing? Not. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #327,611 by jake123 6/9/10 9:54:41 AM Reply	You only think that because you're an American
Post #327,624 by beepster 6/9/10 2:21:22 PM Reply	well since we are discussing american politics that would be a reasonable assumption. I do recognize that our left isn't as far left as those in other parts of the world. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #327,643 by jake123 6/9/10 3:24:34 PM Reply	You're not just talking about American politics Look up thread....
Post #327,536 by boxley 6/7/10 10:37:54 PM Reply	agreed, helen should not have been put out to pasture I actual liked the old bat
Post #327,610 by crazy 6/9/10 9:50:46 AM 6/9/10 9:51:24 AM Reply	Then you pay her salary Actually, contact her, offer your tech services to setup a web site for her. Edited by crazy June 9, 2010, 09:51:24 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #327,612 by boxley 6/9/10 10:13:04 AM Reply	she already has a website

Welcome to IWETHEY!