Nope

#1 - I gave a guy a chance on a good resume and learned I would LOVE to hire him for a
different position.

#2 - I want you to succeed. I REALLY do. And it kills me when you do what could be
self-destructive things that you don't have to. Other people tried the gentle approach
on this subject, and you rebuffed them, gently.

I'm forcing you to either argue the point, until one of us convinces the other of the futility of the argument, or someone changes their mind, or one of us too tired to continue it.

Would it hurt you to dress up? Is there truly a REASON not too?

We KNOW there are a bunch of reasons to, all based on other people's 1st impression of you. You are competing with many others. There are MANY times I see people disqualified for jobs for the silliest of reasons. It almost always comes down to a 1/2 a dozen people who are qualified. If one person early on sees you and doesn't get the warm fuzzies based on appearance, then you will not even have the chance to go that far.

And even if they keep their mouth shut at 1st, when the discussion comes up later between the various people, you will lose out.

I know you. You are REALLY smart. You often know a lot more about Unix then me (with occasional odd glaring holes). You certainly know far more about Windows and networking.

BUT YOU KNOW VERY LITTLE PERL. AND YOU DON'Y LIKE IT.

So you are going for a job with 2 strikes against you. Why must you inflict the final one on purpose? Take every edge possible and apply it, don't throw it away.

Post #147,810 by deSitter 3/23/04 11:21:42 AM Reply	Nope I'm riding my bike. And I vowed never to wear a suit after my last funeral - I'm NEVER WEARING A SUIT :) If I make it to Stockholm, I'll wear a tux :) -drl
Post #147,811 by Another Scott 3/23/04 11:27:32 AM Reply	Hmm. I vowed never to wear a suit after my last funeral ... You one of those living-dead types? :-0 Luck with the interview! Cheers, Scott.
Post #147,813 by deSitter 3/23/04 11:28:59 AM 3/23/04 11:29:12 AM Reply	Mmm forearms! -drl Edited by deSitter March 23, 2004, 11:29:12 AM EST Expand All History
Post #147,879 by bepatient 3/23/04 3:03:22 PM Reply	Ideally, This would be the only time you have to wear a suit in the process. Then they hire you and you never have to wear it again. Sure its an uncomfortable pain in the ass garment...but its expected and likley won't be explained away during the interview. Not wearing it would be taken as disrespectful. You don't recover from that in an interview. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #147,955 by deSitter 3/23/04 8:23:03 PM Reply	I AM disrespectful of "hiring clothes" Women get to wear whatever the fuck they want to. I feel pretty. -drl
Post #148,214 by Ashton 3/24/04 4:35:48 PM Reply	"Beware of all occupations which require new clothes" .. pre-Franklin IIRC. But c'mon - for a single Interview? (I'd have worn a Day-Glo jockstrap to get my dream job.. just another day trip around the Means/Ends; that endless pastime for philosopher scrabble.) Fight Puritanism; do it for Art -- from within, you always have the occasional opportunity to subvert. And that's really FUN. moi
Post #147,969 by ben_tilly 3/23/04 8:45:06 PM Reply	What is expected varies with career and location Programmers on the East Coast are expected to wear suits to interviews (in my experience). On the West Coast I was told when I asked, "They'd probably run away screaming if you showed up in a suit." In interviews, I'd dress accordingly. Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #147,970 by deSitter 3/23/04 8:46:28 PM Reply	Re: What is expected varies with career and location A tie, pressed pants, and a clean shirt is "enough". Throw in my brown bomber and hat and I'd fit right in if it were 1946. Unfortunately it isn't. I have bad teeth too. I should just quit. -drl
Post #147,940 by broomberg 3/23/04 6:54:57 PM Reply	Bullshit Put the suit in a suit bag. Change in a nearby bathroom. I do it all the time. Don't have a suit? Go to a thrift store and buy a used one. Your inability to adhere to the simplest requirements of decorum shows you as someone who is unhirable. Do you want the job? OBVIOUSLY not. Do you really think that your "promise" to yourself is more important than eating? This is a total crock. Someone pointed out that it is a conservative company. Someone who said dress like a "Republican" is not going to be happy with someone who shows up for an interview in dockers. 1 hour of compromise VS another year of slow starvation. Geez, tough call.
Post #147,941 by admin 3/23/04 7:02:11 PM Reply	Yep. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #147,942 by boxley 3/23/04 7:23:51 PM Reply	Dunno, I interview business casual slacks, I wear a white shirt and a blazer, he is not hiring for a sales gig. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,946 by broomberg 3/23/04 7:50:15 PM Reply	You just described entry level dressed You included a blazer, which can substitute as jacket part of the suit. Which is fine for a tech position without any heads up concerning the epectation of being dressed like a "Republican". Dockers don't come close. I know, I wear them every day.
Post #147,952 by deSitter 3/23/04 8:20:05 PM Reply	You ARE a boss - amazing You're cowed by stupid bullshit on a resume and threads. -drl
Post #147,988 by broomberg 3/23/04 9:10:48 PM Reply	No I'm not #1 - I gave a guy a chance on a good resume and learned I would LOVE to hire him for a different position. #2 - I want you to succeed. I REALLY do. And it kills me when you do what could be self-destructive things that you don't have to. Other people tried the gentle approach on this subject, and you rebuffed them, gently. I'm forcing you to either argue the point, until one of us convinces the other of the futility of the argument, or someone changes their mind, or one of us too tired to continue it. Would it hurt you to dress up? Is there truly a REASON not too? We KNOW there are a bunch of reasons to, all based on other people's 1st impression of you. You are competing with many others. There are MANY times I see people disqualified for jobs for the silliest of reasons. It almost always comes down to a 1/2 a dozen people who are qualified. If one person early on sees you and doesn't get the warm fuzzies based on appearance, then you will not even have the chance to go that far. And even if they keep their mouth shut at 1st, when the discussion comes up later between the various people, you will lose out. I know you. You are REALLY smart. You often know a lot more about Unix then me (with occasional odd glaring holes). You certainly know far more about Windows and networking. BUT YOU KNOW VERY LITTLE PERL. AND YOU DON'Y LIKE IT. So you are going for a job with 2 strikes against you. Why must you inflict the final one on purpose? Take every edge possible and apply it, don't throw it away.
Post #147,973 by boxley 3/23/04 8:52:06 PM Reply	dont forget a repo in Missouri is dressed like Michael Douglas in Falling Down, not a 3 piece armani with blow dried hair. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #147,977 by deSitter 3/23/04 8:57:34 PM Reply	Funny but wrong :) It's true that at work, St. Louis is very open minded and you don't see a lot of "dress for success". But in social gatherings people are usually impeccably attired. The women might as well be from Paris. They are so much cooler than anyone knows. And they like to look feminine, which is very nice. -drl
Post #147,981 by boxley 3/23/04 9:00:22 PM Reply	then you didnt take me to the right social gatherings :-) "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #148,016 by orion 3/23/04 9:57:55 PM Reply	Mixed results in the richer neighborhoods like Ladue, University City, Clayton, etc most business men wear suits. In other areas they have an option for business casual. Enough business casual that some suit makers like Kuppenheiners went out of business. I worked for a law firm so I had to wear a suit, sans a jacket at times unless I had a meeting with a lawyer. When no lawyer was around I took off my tie and unbuttoned my collar for a bit to get oxygen to my brain. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #147,951 by deSitter 3/23/04 8:19:03 PM Reply	NO I don't own a suit, and will not buy one. I am not a suit. I will never again in life wear the Republican motley. -drl
Post #147,954 by mmoffitt 3/23/04 8:21:26 PM Reply	One does what one must. Dude, this is not 1996. Go to the Salvation Army. Nice 3 piece wool suit is still $15.00, $10.00 for a two piece. I hate my job, but it pays the rent (including hangar rent). bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,956 by deSitter 3/23/04 8:23:42 PM Reply	One does what one IS -drl
Post #147,959 by mmoffitt 3/23/04 8:25:32 PM Reply	Only when he's not working ;-) Take me, for instance. I am a pilot who, when he is not flying, does some shit with computers. ;-) bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #147,961 by deSitter 3/23/04 8:26:51 PM Reply	That's sort of sad I'm always myself no matter where. What else could I be? -drl
Post #147,963 by mmoffitt 3/23/04 8:27:24 PM Reply	Employed :( bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #148,031 by Silverlock 3/23/04 10:28:23 PM Reply	Fit in or stay out. If you're not going to dress to expectations, and can't get hired unless you do, why apply? And WTF? Never wear a suit again? Find a life. It's just clothes. ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko
Post #148,033 by boxley 3/23/04 10:33:36 PM Reply	sorry Im with Doc here, cremate me in one if you want otherwise fsckit thanx. bill In Bush\ufffds America, fighting terrorism abroad is used as a pretext for vanquishing civil liberties at home. David Podvin questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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