Post #147,796
3/23/04 11:07:47 AM
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I have an interview
..Perl/Informix. Don't laugh, it's money.
I'm supposed to "dress like a Republican". I hope Republicans wear Dockers because I'm not wearing a suit, ever again.
-drl
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Post #147,798
3/23/04 11:11:10 AM
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They're in to arm bands and jack-boots these days ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #147,799
3/23/04 11:11:17 AM
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thoughts, prayers, luck!
-----
Steve
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Post #147,800
3/23/04 11:11:24 AM
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Good luck!
You'll do fine, Ross!
Nightowl >8#
"I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
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Post #147,803
3/23/04 11:13:21 AM
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Good luck
Suit may help...
--
Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them.
--Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
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Post #147,810
3/23/04 11:21:42 AM
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Nope
I'm riding my bike. And I vowed never to wear a suit after my last funeral - I'm NEVER WEARING A SUIT :) If I make it to Stockholm, I'll wear a tux :)
-drl
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Post #147,811
3/23/04 11:27:32 AM
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Hmm.
I vowed never to wear a suit after my last funeral ...
You one of those living-dead types?
:-0
Luck with the interview!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #147,813
3/23/04 11:28:59 AM
3/23/04 11:29:12 AM
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Mmm forearms!
-drl
Edited by deSitter
March 23, 2004, 11:29:12 AM EST
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Post #147,879
3/23/04 3:03:22 PM
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Ideally,
This would be the only time you have to wear a suit in the process. Then they hire you and you never have to wear it again.
Sure its an uncomfortable pain in the ass garment...but its expected and likley won't be explained away during the interview.
Not wearing it would be taken as disrespectful. You don't recover from that in an interview.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #147,955
3/23/04 8:23:03 PM
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I AM disrespectful of "hiring clothes"
Women get to wear whatever the fuck they want to. I feel pretty.
-drl
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Post #148,214
3/24/04 4:35:48 PM
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"Beware of all occupations which require new clothes" ..
pre-Franklin IIRC.
But c'mon - for a single Interview?
(I'd have worn a Day-Glo jockstrap to get my dream job.. just another day trip around the Means/Ends; that endless pastime for philosopher scrabble.)
Fight Puritanism; do it for Art -- from within, you always have the occasional opportunity to subvert. And that's really FUN.
moi
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Post #147,969
3/23/04 8:45:06 PM
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What is expected varies with career and location
Programmers on the East Coast are expected to wear suits to interviews (in my experience). On the West Coast I was told when I asked, "They'd probably run away screaming if you showed up in a suit."
In interviews, I'd dress accordingly.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #147,970
3/23/04 8:46:28 PM
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Re: What is expected varies with career and location
A tie, pressed pants, and a clean shirt is "enough". Throw in my brown bomber and hat and I'd fit right in if it were 1946. Unfortunately it isn't.
I have bad teeth too. I should just quit.
-drl
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Post #147,940
3/23/04 6:54:57 PM
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Bullshit
Put the suit in a suit bag. Change in a nearby bathroom. I do it all the time. Don't have a suit? Go to a thrift store and buy a used one.
Your inability to adhere to the simplest requirements of decorum shows you as someone who is unhirable.
Do you want the job? OBVIOUSLY not.
Do you really think that your "promise" to yourself is more important than eating?
This is a total crock.
Someone pointed out that it is a conservative company. Someone who said dress like a "Republican" is not going to be happy with someone who shows up for an interview in dockers. 1 hour of compromise VS another year of slow starvation. Geez, tough call.
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Post #147,941
3/23/04 7:02:11 PM
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Yep.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #147,942
3/23/04 7:23:51 PM
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Dunno, I interview business casual
slacks, I wear a white shirt and a blazer, he is not hiring for a sales gig.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #147,946
3/23/04 7:50:15 PM
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You just described entry level dressed
You included a blazer, which can substitute as jacket part of the suit.
Which is fine for a tech position without any heads up concerning the epectation of being dressed like a "Republican".
Dockers don't come close. I know, I wear them every day.
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Post #147,952
3/23/04 8:20:05 PM
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You ARE a boss - amazing
You're cowed by stupid bullshit on a resume and threads.
-drl
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Post #147,988
3/23/04 9:10:48 PM
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No I'm not
#1 - I gave a guy a chance on a good resume and learned I would LOVE to hire him for a
different position.
#2 - I want you to succeed. I REALLY do. And it kills me when you do what could be
self-destructive things that you don't have to. Other people tried the gentle approach
on this subject, and you rebuffed them, gently.
I'm forcing you to either argue the point, until one of us convinces the other of the futility of the argument, or someone changes their mind, or one of us too tired to continue it.
Would it hurt you to dress up? Is there truly a REASON not too?
We KNOW there are a bunch of reasons to, all based on other people's 1st impression of you. You are competing with many others. There are MANY times I see people disqualified for jobs for the silliest of reasons. It almost always comes down to a 1/2 a dozen people who are qualified. If one person early on sees you and doesn't get the warm fuzzies based on appearance, then you will not even have the chance to go that far.
And even if they keep their mouth shut at 1st, when the discussion comes up later between the various people, you will lose out.
I know you. You are REALLY smart. You often know a lot more about Unix then me (with occasional odd glaring holes). You certainly know far more about Windows and networking.
BUT YOU KNOW VERY LITTLE PERL. AND YOU DON'Y LIKE IT.
So you are going for a job with 2 strikes against you. Why must you inflict the final one on purpose? Take every edge possible and apply it, don't throw it away.
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Post #147,973
3/23/04 8:52:06 PM
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dont forget a repo in Missouri is dressed like
Michael Douglas in Falling Down, not a 3 piece armani with blow dried hair.
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #147,977
3/23/04 8:57:34 PM
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Funny but wrong :)
It's true that at work, St. Louis is very open minded and you don't see a lot of "dress for success". But in social gatherings people are usually impeccably attired. The women might as well be from Paris. They are so much cooler than anyone knows. And they like to look feminine, which is very nice.
-drl
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Post #147,981
3/23/04 9:00:22 PM
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then you didnt take me to the right social gatherings :-)
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #148,016
3/23/04 9:57:55 PM
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Mixed results
in the richer neighborhoods like Ladue, University City, Clayton, etc most business men wear suits. In other areas they have an option for business casual. Enough business casual that some suit makers like Kuppenheiners went out of business.
I worked for a law firm so I had to wear a suit, sans a jacket at times unless I had a meeting with a lawyer. When no lawyer was around I took off my tie and unbuttoned my collar for a bit to get oxygen to my brain.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #147,951
3/23/04 8:19:03 PM
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NO
I don't own a suit, and will not buy one. I am not a suit. I will never again in life wear the Republican motley.
-drl
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Post #147,954
3/23/04 8:21:26 PM
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One does what one must.
Dude, this is not 1996. Go to the Salvation Army. Nice 3 piece wool suit is still $15.00, $10.00 for a two piece.
I hate my job, but it pays the rent (including hangar rent).
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #147,956
3/23/04 8:23:42 PM
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One does what one IS
-drl
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Post #147,959
3/23/04 8:25:32 PM
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Only when he's not working ;-)
Take me, for instance. I am a pilot who, when he is not flying, does some shit with computers. ;-)
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #147,961
3/23/04 8:26:51 PM
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That's sort of sad
I'm always myself no matter where. What else could I be?
-drl
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Post #147,963
3/23/04 8:27:24 PM
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Employed :(
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #148,031
3/23/04 10:28:23 PM
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Fit in or stay out.
If you're not going to dress to expectations, and can't get hired unless you do, why apply?
And WTF? Never wear a suit again? Find a life. It's just clothes.
-----------------------------------------
It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand.
Mike Royko
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Post #148,033
3/23/04 10:33:36 PM
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sorry Im with Doc here,
cremate me in one if you want otherwise fsckit
thanx.
bill
In Bush\ufffds America, fighting terrorism abroad is used as a pretext for vanquishing civil liberties at home. David Podvin
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #147,805
3/23/04 11:16:57 AM
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you'll be fine, impress and good luck
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #147,844
3/23/04 1:17:05 PM
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bonne chance
Not laughing. One opportunity at a time...
Have fun,
Carl Forde
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Post #147,850
3/23/04 1:37:49 PM
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Knock 'em dead.
That's just an expression Ross. Not a directive.
-----------------------------------------
It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand.
Mike Royko
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Post #147,869
3/23/04 2:17:09 PM
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You go girl...err...Ross!
;-)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating that facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #147,908
3/23/04 5:44:56 PM
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Good luck, man!
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #147,948
3/23/04 7:58:20 PM
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Just to pound the point home...
I'm supposed to "dress like a Republican".
I think that means dress conservatively. Meaning jacket and tie.
There's a reason why s/he told you that. Take the hint and make a good impression.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #147,953
3/23/04 8:21:20 PM
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Thanks but of course at my age I don't need dressing advice
I will not ever, NEVER AGAIN, wear a suit.
-drl
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Post #147,962
3/23/04 8:27:04 PM
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Then don't bother to show up.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #147,965
3/23/04 8:28:47 PM
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Re: Then don't bother to show up.
My first interview, I showed up with my backpack and my helmet. The boss smiled and started telling motorcycle stories.
If I don't get hired for lack of a suit, then I'm better off.
-drl
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Post #147,968
3/23/04 8:43:13 PM
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That is too extreme
My rule of thumb is that you have to pay me an extra $20,000/year to have me show up in a suit. At some point I'll bother increasing that differential.
I'm employed and am facing no offer that would make me consider wearing a suit. However if I was unemployed, I'd wear a suit in an instant. And smile. Behind gritted teeth.
I'd also get a better job as soon as I could...
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #147,983
3/23/04 9:02:04 PM
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Concur in spades.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #147,982
3/23/04 9:01:10 PM
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Interview cancelled
This whole thread made me ill. Fuck that job, I don't need anything that much. It is however good to know that even people I considered hard-core techs buy into PHBism. *NOW* I *really* know how it all started. We did it to ourselves.
I'm bald, overweight, I have bad teeth and no decent clothes, and I refuse to be put down because of it. Fuck it all, fuck it all, fuck it all.
-drl
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Post #147,984
3/23/04 9:02:42 PM
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Dont let other people guide your life, take peters advice
tell them to fuck off, oh you did that. Then go get the job,
thanx,
bill
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #147,987
3/23/04 9:08:05 PM
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Please calm down.
We're just trying to offer some helpful advice. I think that if you didn't want advice and support you wouldn't have started this thread.
Yes, clothes are a silly way to judge the merit of a person.
Everyone agrees with that.
But you want to make a good impression. That means all the things you learned when you were growing up.
Dressing reasonably well doesn't hurt. It never hurts.
You want them to think that you're a person who will fit in well with their business and make much more money for them than you cost. You can do that.
Nobody here is going to know what you where there unless you tell us. Wear what you want, but consider the advice we offer.
</soapbox>
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #147,989
3/23/04 9:18:23 PM
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Re: Please calm down.
I did all that shit when I was a greenhorn. I had the expensive shirts and high dry cleaning bill. What did I get out of it? 60k of medical bills and no future. I got a boss who was doing my manager instead of his goddamn job.
The bills keep coming and the future keeps staying away. I've done my life work. I solved the problem I wanted to solve. I'm sick of trying to be what I am not in a world I can't stomach for another minute. Why wait?
-drl
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Post #147,992
3/23/04 9:22:05 PM
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I hope and pray that doesn't mean
what it seems to imply...
Don't do anything stupid or rash Ross, okay?
Nightowl >8#
"Don't be a cynic and disconsolate preacher. Don't bewail and moan. Omit the negative propositions. Challenge us with incessant affirmatives. Don't waste yourself in rejection, or bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good." Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Post #147,995
3/23/04 9:27:13 PM
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What the fuck difference does it make to you?
You don't know me from Adam. Spend your effort on something else. I'm done.
-drl
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Post #148,007
3/23/04 9:42:32 PM
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Re: What the fuck difference does it make to you?
Ah well, it's the hooty curse, I was born to care too much for those who don't.
Nightowl >8#
"Don't be a cynic and disconsolate preacher. Don't bewail and moan. Omit the negative propositions. Challenge us with incessant affirmatives. Don't waste yourself in rejection, or bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good." Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Post #148,012
3/23/04 9:51:29 PM
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It really matters to you though
are you just going to give up, just like that? Or are you going to be as tough as you say you are, and put up a fight?
Go to the interview, don't wear a suit, see what happens. Just one thing, give it a 100% effort. Tell them that "I am not a stuffed shirt, I am a real person." and see where that takes you. If they ask about the lack of a suit, say "Clothes do not make the man. Did you want to hire a suit, or someone who can do the job, as I can do this job." If you can do that, and hold your head up high, maybe, just maybe, it is enough to impress them and get that job.
I've been down that road, and I documented it here, I wanted to give it all up. But do you know what? When I do that, those bastards win. Are you going to let the bastards win, or are you going to show them who is who? Then live dammit, live like you've never lived before. Be tough as nails, be mean, show up in dockers then, just don't give up.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #147,996
3/23/04 9:29:28 PM
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Ross, look.
We're your friends. We want you well. We want you employed. I'm sure that if everyone here were honest, they'd admit that they do things every single day that they don't want to do. Nobody, well, those not born into abundant wealth anyway, gets to live the life they want to lead at work. I used to believe that because I worked my way through school, never took even a student loan, worked my ass off, got my Master's Degree, got my "professional certifications", etc. that I'd be able to expect more out of my job than kissing some idiot's ass. Guess what? I was wrong. But what I have learned is that what we do to make the rent is not who we are. Our job is not our "life", our job is the unpleasant duty we pull to live our life. Be pissed about it if you must, but to me it's just wasted energy and the only person who suffers as a consequence is you.
Are you going to work for some one as intelligent as you are? Don't bet the ranch on it. Now there are some exceptions, but in all likelihood whomever you go to work for is going to be, by comparison, an idiot. C'est la vie, mon frere. You just can't let it eat you up, because it will if you dwell on it - trust me, I've been there. That's why I said what I said above. Live on your time off, that's the only real time you have.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #148,001
3/23/04 9:35:35 PM
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No one said you needed to go to the jobs that way
Just to the interview.
You want to know what you have to look forward to?
Motorcycle rides. I'm too scared to get on a bike on the highway, you are not.
Your choice of young women when you have enough money to go out an have a good time. Yeah, it sucks that it'll cost, one way or another, but that's life. And it can be fun either way.
Proving me wrong. It'll happen. Some day.
Dropping really good mellow windowpane acid, while relaxing in a just warm enough room, surrounded by really good speakers, with your favorite piano piece playing. Psilocybin is just as good.
Watching the teenyboppers bop around in the summer.
Teasing me about the fact my daughter and wife run my life.
Going the Beep's party and trying not to get caught lusting after his daughter.
Watching Box toss 4 guys in the pool so fast you have to blink a few times just to make sure your eyes were open.
The list really does go on and on and on if you just try to think about it.
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Post #148,004
3/23/04 9:40:10 PM
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Re: No one said you needed to go to the jobs that way
You have to have a purpose. I don't.
-drl
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Post #148,008
3/23/04 9:42:51 PM
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My bad. I thought you wanted to eat.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #148,010
3/23/04 9:47:46 PM
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yer purpose is to suck air until you quit
its what to do while waiting that seems to be problematic, start gambling degeneratively, drive the bike around East St Louis flying the st andrews cross. Knock over drug dealers for beer money, when contemplating your navel turns injurious, find something else to injure, lotta deserving thugs out there.
thanx,
bill
In Bush\ufffds America, fighting terrorism abroad is used as a pretext for vanquishing civil liberties at home. David Podvin
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #148,068
3/24/04 2:27:35 AM
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Re: yer purpose is to suck air until you quit
This is an interesting point - why not just run amok if you are going down anyway? I've been confronted by this issue repeatedly so I've thought a lot about it.
1) I just can't - it's not something I can do. It would have to be in defense of something. I suppose the values of civilization are so important to me that I'd rather go out quietly than violate them. There is no point to living as a human if there is nothing to live for. Life is more than being alive.
2) I wouldn't enjoy stolen money - even to eat. It would not be worth it.
3) Failing at life so completely that you can't even keep a roof over your own single head is so shameful that there is too much apathy after a time to give a damn. All one is left with is fear of being dirty and cold. Hunger doesn't worry me nor thirst (there are always places to get water). But being dirty and cold scares me to death.
Therefore when the time comes I will jack an entire syringe of the best heroin I can score for my last $500 into my arm. I will not leave a mess for the EMTs to clean up.
-drl
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Post #148,096
3/24/04 8:59:12 AM
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last $500?
when you get to the last $500, go to Vegas with it. Spend 150 on round trip, 60 on a room, 100 on a hooker, Gamble a 100 spend 40 on a meal and a jug, watch all the interesting lights, go home with 50 get a job changing oil at a local dirty sanchez franchise. Think you are overtired, drink kefir for a couple of days.
thanx,
bill
In Bush\ufffds America, fighting terrorism abroad is used as a pretext for vanquishing civil liberties at home. David Podvin
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #148,098
3/24/04 9:21:13 AM
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Re: last $500?
I can't get hired for a "Joe" job - I've tried again and again. I don't know how you do these things, but they don't work for me.
-drl
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Post #148,115
3/24/04 10:36:06 AM
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There is work if you look for it
SBC was hiring people to promote their DSL at different shops. All the person needed to do was learn enough about DSL to talk to vendors into reselling it for SBC. Just go visit the shops, talk to owners, and managers, and get them to sell/resell SBC DSL. There was a consulting company doing the hiring. It should be an easy job for you if you can find the consulting company doing the hiring. Maybe SBC can give you more info on that?
Or check with the colleges, your Math and Science backgrounds can get you a job there. After all, you did get a paper published. Maybe you can be a Teacher's Assistant for Phsyics? No need to wear a suit, dockers and a polo shirt should be fine at a college. Maybe you can get free tuition and work on getting another degree? See if the college computer labs need help.
I have to explore options that are non-computer related. I have creativity, so I am looking into research for making jewelry, soap, candles, etc. I may be selling more to the female markets, but hey that is a whole other half of the population that I was not able to sell to before. If I can make enough money doing that, I can start up a computer business from it. Then I can focus on consumer and computer products and services for my business and sell both.
So please don't OD, there are plenty of options out there, you have to look really hard to find them. Don't give up, as I tried to do before. Trust me I have been down that road and I don't like to see someone else going down that road. Your choice, your decision, I cannot make that for you.
Follow the trends and see what you can do. For example while the code is written over seas, the requirements gathering, quality testing, documentation, configuration management/control, and training is still done in the good old USA. So just switch what you are doing in the computer market to something that they are still hiring for.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #148,141
3/24/04 11:53:08 AM
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Nope
None of that works.
-drl
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Post #148,223
3/24/04 4:56:19 PM
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Then I challenge you to find something that does work
after all you are supposed to be really smart. I figure you should be able to use those smarts to find yourself a job.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #148,165
3/24/04 12:55:23 PM
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Another viewpoint
I'll probably regret trying this post, but I figure if it's to hopefully save your life, I've got nothing to lose.
Ross, I was there once too. I wanted to kill myself rather than face the work place, rather than try to work again. I was disgusted with the whole system, disenchanted with employers and their values, and completely blind-sided by how people could behave.
I went into a deep depression, and I didn't care. I didn't eat, I didn't sleep, I didn't do anything. Some of the sleeplessness you describe sounds to me like depression. I'm not a doctor, but you could check with your doctor and ask if you need something to help you sleep.
But I learned something in that dark period, and it was a hard lesson. I learned that suicide was NOT the answer. It wasn't what would solve everything. In fact, it was the easy way to avoid the responsibility of taking care of me.
I was tired of fighting, heck, I still am, tired of fighting the system. I didn't believe in being a "showplace" secretary, and I still won't do it. I was hit on by potential employers, and wouldn't even consider working there. I wanted to give up, completely.
But I am still here, plodding on, fighting on, trying new strategies every day, and trying to believe that somewhere out there, there IS a place for me in the work force, and that IF it is truly there, I'll find it.
Granted, I don't have to fear losing my roof, and I know that can be frightening, because I was there once too, in that dark depressive period, I lost my apt and I had to be back with my parents. You claim you have nowhere to go, but all you need is one friend or one person to help you out, just a little, here or there and keep you on your feet until you ARE able to do it yourself.
It CAN be done. I know you think it can't, but it can. And it is honestly, your choice whether you keep on plodding on, and keep on fighting, or lie down and die.
I can't make that choice for you, but I pray every day that you'll make the right one.
Nightowl >8#
"Don't be a cynic and disconsolate preacher. Don't bewail and moan. Omit the negative propositions. Challenge us with incessant affirmatives. Don't waste yourself in rejection, or bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good." Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Post #148,168
3/24/04 1:04:50 PM
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Re: Another viewpoint
FACE THE WORKPLACE? I'D GO NAKED IF IT MADE MONEY.
Not being in this business, you don't understand the implications when a recruiter tells you to "dress like a Republican".
I'm not fighting the system - the SYSTEM is fighting ME. There are any number of things I can do - none of which are possible. I'm not a good, stable enough citizen so I'm not allowed to teach. I have no experience for money so I can't work on MCs. I can't do my career job because the people who hire are totally ignorant of the work that needs doing, and the people who actually should know better tacitly abet this stupid system. I can't drive a cab because my health is fucked up. I can't do labor because I am old and broken down. I can't get a job in a convenience/grocery store because they simply will not hire ME - they take one look and have one conversation and that's it. App given, no call back. Even though I've helped build houses, and can do everything from installing electrics to plumbing to drywalling to framing, those are trades and are (rightly) unionized - and in any case it's the same as the above - I'm too strange a person to average Joes to get along with (their fault for misjudging me).
There is literally nothing I can do to make any money.
-drl
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Post #148,174
3/24/04 1:15:47 PM
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Well...
There is calling people for AMVETS. I did it once, and it was done from home, on my own time. You make money based on who agrees to leave something out for them on the porch. There's no "hard sell" like telemarketing, it's polite, and if they say no you hang up and continue on.
No car needed, no clothes needed, you could do this naked if you liked.
Let me know if you want the contact info for Amvets.
Nightowl >8#
"Don't be a cynic and disconsolate preacher. Don't bewail and moan. Omit the negative propositions. Challenge us with incessant affirmatives. Don't waste yourself in rejection, or bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good." Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Post #148,175
3/24/04 1:28:32 PM
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Re: Well...
Sure you can email it to me. unixmonster at hotmail dot com
-drl
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Post #148,184
3/24/04 1:54:28 PM
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Done :)
Good luck, and let me know if it isn't the right place to call, I'll find another one.
Nightowl >8#
"Don't be a cynic and disconsolate preacher. Don't bewail and moan. Omit the negative propositions. Challenge us with incessant affirmatives. Don't waste yourself in rejection, or bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good." Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Post #148,011
3/23/04 9:49:00 PM
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Explain
You considered your math work (please ignore the gross simplification) your purpose.
And now your purpose is fullfilled?
Who has reviewed it?
Who else understands it?
Who has attacked it? And been proven wrong / beaten back?
This type of work is like a fragile child. You may think you are done, but you have just begun. You have to nurture and protect until it is ready to stand on it's own.
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Post #148,069
3/24/04 2:29:30 AM
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Re: Explain
It's the one good thing I did in my life. It will certainly stand on its own. In a way, now that its done I'm free to check out.
-drl
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Post #148,086
3/24/04 6:06:32 AM
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Nice try
But you are wrong. The world is filled with vicious idots in power who like nothing more than suppress new ideas becuase it threatens the status quo. And you know it, you fight them often enough.
So you gotta stick around for at least a while to make sure it doesn't die on the vine.
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Post #148,116
3/24/04 10:41:25 AM
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I agree
the Megacoporations control things, Billy Idol was correct in 1993 when he stated that on his Cyberpunk CD. Here is a Blog on it: [link|http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2003/12/billy_idols_cyb.html|http://www.michaelha...ly_idols_cyb.html] Maybe it can get you a chuckle, deSitter, if you read it. Here is the intro text:
The future has imploded into the present. With no nuclear war, the new battlefields are people's minds and souls. Megacorporations are the new government. The computer generated info-domains are the new frontiers. Though there is better living through science and chemistry, we are all becoming cyborgs.
The computer is the new "cool tool," and though we say "all information should be free," it is not. Information is power and currency in the virtual world we inhabit, so mistrust authority.
Cyberpunks are the true rebels. Cyberculture is coming in under the radar of ordinary society. An unholy alliance of the tech world, and the world of organized dissent.
Welcome to the cybercorporation.
Cyberpunks.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #148,025
3/23/04 10:17:59 PM
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Yes, you do.
We all have a purpose, even if we haven't found it yet.
As Barry said, you've got your mathematics. You've got to convince the boneheaded ass clown string theorists out there that they are tilting at windmills.
:-)
You've got a desire to help others understand the things you know. That's one reason why you post here. You enjoy helping others.
A wise man thinks [link|http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/1999/2/16_1.html|the purpose of life is to seek happiness.] Life is a journey, not a destination.
Go to the interview. See what tomorrow brings. Don't give up.
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #148,055
3/24/04 1:17:16 AM
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Life sucks.
Then you die.
Then they put you in a hole in the ground.
Then they throw dirt in your face.
Then the worms eat you.
BE FUCKING GLAD IT HAPPENS IN THAT ORDER!
(In other words, there's always a purpose. You might not know what it is yet, but you'll find it. Don't give up yet!)
In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others?
Therin lies the true measure of a man.
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Post #148,032
3/23/04 10:32:58 PM
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What is this "buy into PHBism" BS?
We are telling you how to get past PHBs, not telling you that their view of the world makes sense. That doesn't make us PHBs.
In fact there is a certain irony here. You are turning down paying work because you don't want to accept a basic requirement of reality. Doing stupid things for no good reason other than an unwillingness to accept reality is classic PHB behaviour. So of all of the people speaking, you are the one who is acting most like a PHB.
As Barry told me privately when I really needed to hear it, sometimes you have to know when to suck it up. Things will get better. Thanks to Barry's gentle prodding, I did live with a stupid external decision, it was the right thing to do, and things did get better.
You are in that situation. It doesn't matter how stupid the idiots are who hire you, they have money, you need money, and you can strike a deal.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #148,040
3/23/04 10:59:54 PM
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I like wearing suits.
I look good in them. Not too many other clothes I do look good in. Oh. I look good in armor, and I look OK in medieval clothes.
I am certainly not a PHB.
In the job I'm in now, I had to wear a suit to the interview. They took offense (really!) when I wore even a tie on the job.
Having said that, if YOUR criteria for a job is that they not be uniform-happy, that's cool! It's your abilities that you are 'licensing', after all. You get to set conditions, too. If you don't think you'd be happy in a job that comes with that condition, then the job probably isn't worth it to you anyway - especially for any extended period.
Everybody here wants to see you happy, Ross. Employment is part of that, certainly, but the whole part? If having to wear a uniform (really, that's all a suit is) costs you too much, then 'Oh, well'.
Go to the interview. Knock thier socks off. If they hire you, you'll know that you've come to a place that values form over fashion, anyway.
If not, what have you lost?
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #148,067
3/24/04 2:16:00 AM
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Re: I like wearing suits.
I overreacted because I am fought out. I'm extremely tired but can't sleep for more than an hour or so at a time. It's wearing me down. I guess I should not have cancelled the interview. Of all things to say, why did they have to say "dress like a Republican"? Can't even ONE thing go right?
When I feel like quitting I get a message like this from you, remember what a great guy you are, and feel stupid.
-drl
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Post #148,090
3/24/04 6:52:06 AM
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Heh.
You'll make me blush.
A job is NOT the measure of a man, though. No matter what conditioning we've been given over the years.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #148,091
3/24/04 7:02:18 AM
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Re: Heh.
You have to live. You have to either be able to do it yourself or get others to do it for you. I'm one of the few people who can't do either. I've never in my entire life been able to solve the employment problem. Growing up I never thought about it - I just assumed I would be a scientist at some university. When university life was hijacked by morons that chance was lost. So I had to find something else - I found this - and this also got hijacked by morons. (There apparently is a never-ending supply of morons. Anything I've ever loved, morons have ruined.) I never wanted to do anything other than make enough money to live and continue my work in private. Even that simple task is beyond me. I can't figure out how to live a stable existence, and by now I'm getting sick of trying and long for it to end. Or at least to get 8 hours of sleep, all at once. God I need drugs.
-drl
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Post #148,171
3/24/04 1:10:52 PM
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A never-ending supply of morons.
A-men.
I know it's hard. I know it's depressing. All I can offer is my 'tips for living' in my sig. Especially the right-hand part... And a wish for you to get some sleep. I've had major sleep problems, too. When I was doing the graveyard shift for Macy's, I used to sleep in in a walk-in closet for quiet and dark. When I had REALLY bad insomnia in the early '90s (went for over a week without any sleep at all - problems with work - I was almost hallucinating at the end) I got over it with - get this - vitamins and warm milk. Prescribed by a doctor, yet. Don't laugh, it worked...
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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