Insist that God is a name all you want.

Post #43,817 by imric 6/28/02 3:29:34 PM 6/28/02 4:31:30 PM Reply	Insist that God is a name all you want. Of course simply repeating oneself over and over in the face of evidence to the contrary (again, look in the Bible - you'll find the name of God - and it's not "God") until it's accepted as fact might be a 'winning strategy of lawyers and politicians - but it doesn't mean that conclusions reached thereby are valid. Everyone who has looked in the Bible before knows that you are either A) completely ignorant of the subject about which you are arguing, or B) Manufacturing data to support your own 'argument'. I don't think you are ignorant. ps. Funny, God and Allah seem to refer to the same divinity [link\|http://www.al-islam.org/beliefs/main.html\|here]. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric June 28, 2002, 04:27:48 PM EDT Insist that God is a name all you want. Of course simply repeating oneself over and over in the face of evidence to the contrary (again, look in the Bible - you'll find the name of God - and it's not "God") until it's accepted as fact might be a 'winning strategy of lawyers and politicians - but it doesn't mean that conclusions reached thereby are valid. Everyone who has looked in the Bible before knows that you are either A) completely ignorant of the subject about which you are arguing, or B) Manufacturing data to support your own 'argument'. I don't think you are ignorant. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric June 28, 2002, 04:31:30 PM EDT Insist that God is a name all you want. Of course simply repeating oneself over and over in the face of evidence to the contrary (again, look in the Bible - you'll find the name of God - and it's not "God") until it's accepted as fact might be a 'winning strategy of lawyers and politicians - but it doesn't mean that conclusions reached thereby are valid. Everyone who has looked in the Bible before knows that you are either A) completely ignorant of the subject about which you are arguing, or B) Manufacturing data to support your own 'argument'. I don't think you are ignorant. ps. Funny, God and Allah seem to refer to the same divinity here. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Collapse All History
Post #43,828 by Brandioch 6/28/02 4:59:35 PM Reply	To quote you "look in the Bible". And "it's a sin" to post the name of the god of the Christians. "god" is a noun. "God" is a proper noun. No. Fuck this. I am NOT going to begin teaching basic grammar to people. In "One nation, under God", because "God" is capitalized but not the first word of that sentence, "God" is a proper noun. Everyone who has looked in the Bible before knows that you are either A) completely ignorant of the subject about which you are arguing, or B) Manufacturing data to support your own 'argument'. And I'm sure that "everyone" who has done that also believes it is a "sin" to post it. Hey, if you were even right about it being in the Bible, you'd be able to point me to a chapter and verse. I'm going to be prophetic and say that you won't even be able to do this. Of course, you won't have any reasonable answer as to why you can't do this. You'll either skip it or claim that it's against your religion again.
Post #43,829 by imric 6/28/02 5:01:21 PM Reply	Nope. Wrong again. All pronouns referring to God are capitalized. Look in the Bible. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #43,837 by Brandioch 6/28/02 5:39:17 PM Reply	Look up "circular reference". I'm wrong because I disagree with your religion. To prove that I'm wrong, you reference the holy book of your religion. To quote you: All pronouns referring to God are capitalized. You do realize that, accourding to your position, you just stated that all pronouns refering to another pronoun are capitalized. But pronouns can only refer to nouns (or proper nouns). That is the definition of "pronoun". I'm sure there's a chapter and verse in that book of your's that will "prove" I'm wrong. There usually is in those kinds of books.
Post #43,839 by imric 6/28/02 5:45:21 PM Reply	Confusing levels of reference Another political and legal tactic. I refer you to the content of that book, or the Quran, for that matter. I never asked you to believe the message therein. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #43,841 by Brandioch 6/28/02 5:56:27 PM Reply	Why am I wrong? Because the Bible says so. Why am I wrong? Because the Bible says so. Where does the Bible say I'm wrong? Well, if I'd read the Bible, I'd know. But I have read the Bible and I don't know. loop ================================================= Oh, so now I can find the answer in the Quran, too. But you are still unable or unwilling (it's a *SIN*!!!) to point out the chapter and verse. You do know that the Bible is broken down to books and chapters and verses. Of course you do. Even someone who's read the Bible like I have knows that. And since what you're saying is in the Bible (so you say), then it should be referencable by book, chapter and verse. From the King James version. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." 2 Kings 6:4 "So he went with them. And when they came to Jordan, they cut down wood." See how easy it is? Damn. Now I have The Pet Shop Boys' "It's a Sin" going through my head.
Post #43,843 by imric 6/28/02 6:13:43 PM Reply	Oh, I can prove you wrong without 'saying' his name. Exodus 20 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Notice: The LORD thy God. Not used as a proper noun. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #43,849 by Brandioch 6/28/02 7:19:48 PM Reply	How did it get printed if it's a sin to print it? Okay, how did the verse with the name of the god of the Christians make it through all those copies of the Bible (2000 years old) if it was a sin to "say" it? Fascinating. As for "thy God" not being a proper noun, you're quoting from your holy book. Now, which god is "thy God" referencing in your holy book? "One nation, under God" But you don't see how the reference is the same? "One nation, under God" uses "God" as a proper noun. The name of the god of the Christians. It was put in there to differentiate our indoctrination oath from the indoctrination oaths of the "Godless Communists" with whom we were engaged in the "Cold War". The chapter you quoted, and all throughout your holy book, capitalizes anything refering to the god of the Christians. "Him", "His" and so forth. This is because it is your holy book about your god. It also capitalizes "Son" when refering to God's Son, Jesus (John, 3:16). For reference, check out how "god" is capitalized when refering to Zeus or Thor in historical texts. Here's a link to Bulfinch's. [link\|http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/bull1a.html\|gods]
Post #44,167 by CRConrad 7/1/02 10:18:21 PM Reply	If it begins with a G (not g), then yes, it IS "a name"! And you probably know very well that the reason for this is that God's "real name" isn't supposed to be used -- some old Jewish Yahweh taboo -- so in effect the ordinary word 'god' _HAS BECOME_, in Western culture "the name" God. F'rinstance, you didn't wonder which God the first occurence of the word "God" in the previous sentence referred to, did you? Then again, the Muslims have their own taboos... Prominent among them, AFAIK, a prohibition against translating the Koran into languages other than Arabic. (A way to impose cultural homogeneity by having all prospective converts learn the language, an effect like the Catholic Church's insistence on using Latin in medieval Europe -- only more pronounced, since the Muslims were more for having people read their Book for themselves than Europe, where the Catholic priests read it to their parishioners -- probably more useful than harmful in both cases, for simplifying long-distance trade and other contacts.) Thus, the Muslim God was referred to only in Arabic, and therefore "his name" came to be 'Allah'. So while it may be (or at least originally have been) true that "'Allah' is just the word for 'god' in Arabic", there has been an "in effect" change there too, so in effect the opposite view, that "'Allah' is the name of the Muslim God" has become at least somewhat true, too. But still, it doesn't matter whether you, Imric, or Brandioch is more right than wrong on this particular sub-sub-issue of Allah -- on the original sub-issue of "God" referring to the (Judeo-)Christian God, Brandioch is fucking obviously right: If it were just a noun, a god, any which one -- then it would be written with a lower-case 'g'. Furthermore, even if you somehow manage to wriggle out of that (or rather, just refuse to admit defeat), on the original MAIN issue Brandioch is basically right (or IOW, far more right than wrong): Phrasing like "One nation under [g/G]od" is obviously religiously discriminatory. "What, 'under [g/G]od', singular?!? Why just one??? And which* one of them?!? I thought this was 'One nation under' Odin and Thor and Frigg!!!"* Obviously discriminatory to all polytheist beliefs. What, are they somehow less "equal"? Christian R. Conrad Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971\|Andrew Grygus]

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