Post #387,754
3/20/14 7:23:21 AM
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One could imagine that.
There has been talk of the eastern Canadian provinces joining the US if Quebec ever votes to become independent. I don't know how serious the talk is, but it wouldn't involve a US invasion.
The UK air force was effectively under SAC military control in the 1950s before they had their own nuclear forces - http://en.wikipedia...._Operational_Plan (some scary stuff is in there!). Lots of weird war planning went on, showing the US feeling and acting like BMOC.
We all know that Cheney was (or was reported to be) a war monger. Lots of people apparently went insane after 9/11. Recall the mumblings about putting off the 2004 presidential election "in case" there was a terrorist attack - http://www.nytimes.c...f-vote-delay.html
Yes, if there was a sudden change in Canada's leadership that caused it to change alliances, etc., then there would be consternation in DC. Maybe even some plans involving military actions would be drawn up in response. But remember that France left NATO - http://en.wikipedia....French_withdrawal (but, yes, it did not join the Warsaw Pack) without too much consternation from neighbors or the US. But even if that did happen to Canada, I can't see us deciding that we needed to take Windsor, ON, or something. Slicing off parts of a country without going through a slow, well-defined, and reasonably democratic process raises lots of red flags.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #387,756
3/20/14 10:00:48 AM
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my scenario was deliberately lurid
and obviously implausible, but the intent was to provide a sense of the Russian mindset (into which I do not claim any special insight) as it plausibly appears to me. As to the independent Quebec scenario, I suppose some Anglophones there might stream south as cultural refugees, but the other provinces? How deluded would these commonwealths have to be to bind their fates more closely to that of this savage, predatory, authoritarian oligarchy, this doomed experiment?
(The late Robertson Davies had some amusing things to say about Canada, the USA and Mother England. I'll see if I can find them today.)
cordially,
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Post #387,757
3/20/14 10:37:38 AM
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On Canada...
IIRC, one of the arguments was that by being physically separated from the rest of Canada, they would have "no choice" but join the US.
A contemporary article (from 1990) - http://articles.chic...meech-lake-quebec
Newfoundland joined Canada in 1949 - http://www.ucs.mun.c...ederation1949.htm
Yeah, governments have had wild swings in the last 100 years or so, but many in Canada probably wouldn't look too askance at leaving Harper's clutches these days... :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #387,783
3/21/14 5:38:41 AM
3/21/14 5:54:18 AM
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If we suppose that Putin's take on our corrupt authoritarian
oligarchy is similar to yours (and mine), then probably he has little interest in the diplomacy dance, at all.
Haven't much idea how many Canadians have pierced the bespattered-veil/shroud? of our self-congratulatory Exceptionalism--do Canadians watch as much crap-TV as Muricans?
Next moves?
Can.. our plutocrats, via their slogans and $Ts overcome Putin's disdain to sign our dance-card? via similar financial machinations (as created and maintain our 0.001% Overlords,)
Disingenuous jingoism -vs- real politik 2014. May the dis-USA Military 2015 be comprised of 90% scions of the Ruling Class: What a Glorious New War! eh?
It would be nice to find someone to root-for, trapped as I am, within the belly of one of the beastliest-ever, (scanning all previous dysfunctional empires--just to check.)
Guatemala, perhaps? Their Prez appears to be a mensch; lives at home, even. Maybe doesn't possess the requisite two swords to rattle.
(Probably with feet-of-clay too; it's all the rage now.)
Russkies and their cohorts in the diaspora Will march in solidarity.. Muricans? Hah! what's to fight/die-for Here, which engenders allegiance, such as we have Become.
Resignedly... but Cheerfully.
Ed: punct.
Edited by Ashton
March 21, 2014, 05:54:18 AM EDT
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Post #387,806
3/22/14 9:29:46 AM
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The likelihood of the Maritimes joining the US in the event
of Qc separation is very low. For one thing, there's no guarantee that Quebec would be able to hold on to its Grand Nord; the vast majority of the people that live there are Cree, and they've already stated they would not be interested in remaining within an independent Quebec, many times over many years.
As for the Maritime provinces... I think it's highly unlikely that they'd be willing to consider joining the US. For one thing, periphery states don't do so well in the US federation. I could see them deciding to go on alone, but join the US? Not very likely. The likeliest outcome would be continuing to send MPs to the House, with the Grand Nord and Labrador forming the physical connection. If the Quebecois didn't like it, well, it wouldn't be difficult for the Cree to turn off their electricity. It wouldn't take long after that.
Mind you, my take is that the likelihood of any of that coming to pass is slim at best. Marois is spinning cotton candy dreams and I'm pretty sure most of the people there know that. What she's really doing is trying the Republican approach of finding an issue to drive a particular segment of the citizenry to the polls, in the hopes of (in this case) picking up some rural ridings so she can get her majority. My feeling is that she's doing a great job of destroying the separatist movement by splitting them down the fault line of the hard nationalists and the folks that actually care about civil liberties.
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Post #387,815
3/22/14 12:40:21 PM
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Maritimes? not likely. I could see Alberta maybe
the maritimes would more likely want to be commonwealth and return to the crown if it would have them
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
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Post #387,816
3/22/14 12:45:55 PM
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Right now Alberta is in a class of its own`
I have family out there. They're quite frankly pissed at how things are going. It's not anyone's fault other than their province's, though; the person mostly responsible is an Albertan... and relevantly similarly to how W was a Texan.
First as tragedy, second as farce.
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Post #387,823
3/22/14 1:24:00 PM
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Very interesting. Thanks.
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Post #387,817
3/22/14 12:50:40 PM
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Robertson Davies on Canada
The late, great Canadian magical realist had this to say about his country just about thirty-seven years ago: Perhaps we have been a little late in coming to self-recognition. Sometimes when I think of the great world family of English-speaking peoples, I think of Canada as the Daughter Who Stayed at Home. I mean that in 1776 Columbia, a self-willed girl with a strong sense of her own independence, left her motherÂs house, after some high-pitched family rows, and set up a household of her own. At that time Canada elected to stay with Mother. It was not a simple decision, for Columbia offered us all the inducements that naughty girls have at their command; we have not forgotten the bags of gold (we suspect they were of French origin) with which some of your very persuasive citizens—including that extremely persuasive, somewhat ambiguous character Benjamin Franklin—visited us, hoping that we might be bought. But, to continue this simplified version of history, we said: ÂNo, Mother needs us, and we shall always be true to Mother; so long as she needs a faithful daughter, we shall never desert her. So what happened? Just what everybody with a knowledge of family behaviour might expect to happen: Columbia, the naughty daughter, prospered mightily and Mother (who always had a sharp eye for success) became very fond of her. And the Good Daughter Who Stayed at Home became, in the course of time, rather a bore. Many years have passed since that decision and that outcome: Mother has been having a rough time, and has taken up with all sorts of rowdy Continental companions. And the Good Daughter has begun, somewhat belatedly, to have some very serious thoughts about her future. Where does it lie? cordially,
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Post #387,822
3/22/14 1:23:40 PM
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Excellent. Thanks.
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Post #387,831
3/22/14 6:09:03 PM
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{{Chortle, long guffaw..}}
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