Geffen's quote

Post #283,864 by bepatient 5/4/07 12:38:10 AM Reply	Geffen's quote "the Clintons lie with such ease, it's troubling." Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #283,873 by Seamus 5/4/07 7:45:31 AM Reply	In many way's that just means she's a politician Maybe she would rank first (or last) if we ranked politicians on there ability to tell the truth, but what does that tell us about how she compares to Shrub? Is she going to forgo the veto and use signing stmts to ignore the laws she doesn't like? Is she going to ignore the rest of the world and do whatever she wants? Is she going to disregard worries of separation of Church and State to support Christian charities as a solution to our social ills? Is she going to continue the use torture? Find inventive ways to avoid complying with the Geneva Convention? Take away the writ of Habeas Corpus from more people? I could go on, but it takes more than being a good, or even an excellent, liar to get into Shrub's league. I don't put Hillary, or any other candidate, in that league. But, I also think he is unique among presidents in the amount of damage he has done to this country. Does Hillary outrank all the other candidates in her ability to lie? I don't know. I am looking for a candidate with the balls to actively undue the carnage Shrub will leave behind; I don't see Hillary as that candidate. Seamus
Post #283,908 by crazy 5/4/07 2:25:33 PM Reply	You are confusing tacticts with goals So, she's a better liar thatn Bush. No shit. He's stupid enough to think everyone should believe him because he's the "decider", and he might actually be delusional enough to believe the crap he spews. One more time: What specific policy do you disagree with that you feel she will attempt to achieve?
Post #283,913 by bepatient 5/4/07 4:18:32 PM Reply	What is it with you all. It was a David Geffen quote...I made no mention of the current President. None. Neither did David Geffen. He decided to support a different democrat based on that belief. Considering he was a previous supporter of the Clinton's...that speaks volumes. Specific policies. Health care. PROTECT Act, specifically the creation of an additional government hierarchy to "oversee" our privacy. All telling. Big Fed programs are the way to save the "village". Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #283,921 by Seamus 5/4/07 5:32:29 PM Reply	You didn't but the thread had devolved into a Bush vs Hillary rant by the time you posted, so it looked like you were joining in the fun. I don't like Hillary and I don't think anyone is comparable to Shrub but I think I should save that for another thread for fear of bring up the dreaded f word again. Seamus
Post #283,935 by bepatient 5/4/07 9:00:37 PM Reply	If they were running against each other I wouldn't vote for President. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #284,046 by CRConrad 5/6/07 8:20:18 AM Reply	And that means you're a fricking wingnut.
Post #284,070 by bepatient 5/6/07 11:15:37 AM Reply	How so exactly? There is no chance of a 3rd party candidate winning. I can't offer support of the top 2 candidates under ANY circumstance. Its called...voting my conscience. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #284,073 by CRConrad 5/6/07 11:24:02 AM Reply	By NOT voting AGAINST the abomination. It's a bit like not resisting what rises out of the Hellmouth; NOT supporting the Slayer makes you an ally of Evil. Sure, if that's what your "conscience" tells you to do... Duly noted. (Heh... "Hilbuffy"! :-) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #284,076 by bepatient 5/6/07 11:41:02 AM Reply	Sorry, ain't buying what you're selling How does one vote for "lesser evil" when both are, in one's opinion, firmly entrenched in the 7th level of hell? I'm not going to be faced with the fabled choice anyway. Besides, no matter what >I< vote, my real vote will will be cast Democrat and has been every election since I've been in NJ. It doesn't matter what >I< believe...its what my "collective" does that matters. So, you see, all I have to vote for is my conscience. My state will vote for the Democrat. It really doesn't matter who it is. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #284,079 by Another Scott 5/6/07 12:31:12 PM Reply	Easy. How does one vote for "lesser evil" when both are, in one's opinion, firmly entrenched in the 7th level of hell? Easy. Because even if they're equally evil, they aren't equal in their effect on the government. If it looks likely that they're equally evil, and the polls indicate that the Congress and Senate are going to go to one party, then if you believe in divided government and checks-and-balances it can be argued that you have an obligation to vote for the candidate in the opposite party of the one that will have the Congress. Of course, since candidates are never equally evil, it's an academic choice. Also, if you believe divided government is not an effective litmus test, then you can apply a similar test of your choice. In the end, it's never an equal choice. You're right that the electoral college has the biggest impact at the moment. If you really feel strongly about the evilisciousness of the candidates, you should make your choice known in the primary on 2/5/2008 (and support your candidate before then). Cheers, Scott.
Post #284,084 by bepatient 5/6/07 1:10:14 PM Reply	Your "logic" is prejudiced in that it is based on the "devil that you know" versus the "devil that you don't know". And one could equally argue that the known evil is easier to deal with. Predictability leads to an easier defense. And my point was to not vote for P only. I didn't say that I wouldn't vote at all. And I completely disagree with the notion that there is some obligation to ensure that congress and the executive are owned by opposing parties. A desire possibly. An obligation...not at all. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #284,204 by jb4 5/8/07 11:29:37 AM Reply	Compare and contrast w/ current "Administration"... jb4 "It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment." — George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
Post #284,232 by bepatient 5/8/07 2:17:43 PM 5/20/07 2:36:05 AM Reply	So your argument is "they do it too so it must be ok?" And lest I have to repeat myself again...I am not the one bringing the current admin into these arguments. Geffen used that statement as a reason to switch allegiance in the dem camp Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew} Edited by bepatient May 20, 2007, 02:36:05 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #284,252 by jb4 5/8/07 5:55:43 PM 5/8/07 5:56:16 PM Reply	No my argument is: Put yer shock and awe in yer pocket You've seen this before, and said nary a word.... jb4 "It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment." — George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07) Edited by jb4 May 8, 2007, 05:56:16 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #284,308 by bepatient 5/9/07 10:39:37 AM Reply	Seen what, exactly? Yes, I'd seen the Geffen quote before...simply never discussed in a thread to now..when someone was asking about reasons to dislike Hillary in the race. Since she cannot run against Bush, I find it laughable that everyone seems drawn to bringing him into this discussion...and doing so with the "well Shrub lies too". Thats hardly the point...unless, of course, the Dems are just as happy to place a candidate equally challenged by the "Truth" into the White House (again). Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #284,944 by CRConrad 5/19/07 6:39:24 PM Reply	"You're"? Sigh...
Post #284,957 by bepatient 5/20/07 2:36:32 AM Reply	huh? Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #284,958 by CRConrad 5/20/07 3:13:33 AM Reply	Google may be Your Friend... ...but if you start trying to manipulate people's perception of facts, then View Edit History is your enemy. :-) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #284,960 by Ashton 5/20/07 4:43:06 AM Reply	Yabut.. Shirley - he be yankin yer chain here, as in -- about as [obv.] as, whenever Alberto G. opens mouth - another lie pipsqueaks out.
Post #284,986 by CRConrad 5/21/07 5:35:23 AM Reply	Yeah, I know - I was trying to indicate my being... ...in on, and appreciating, the joke by means of that there "smiley" thingy. Reflection: When people defend the use of smileys because "the non-verbal clues of a conversation don't come through in writing", they never mention instances like these, where smileys don't do the trick either. (OTGH, maybe I wouldn't have managed to get that across in a verbal conversation either. :-) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #284,964 by bepatient 5/20/07 10:37:09 AM Reply	Yabut...ppl only read headlines! Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}

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