What was there before...

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Post #198,574

by pwhysall

3/14/05 2:46:48 PM

What was there before...

...was a confusing mess.

I can see we've gone circular here, so I'll not beat the bloody horse stain too much more.

The bottom line is that GNOME is now more usable by regular users than it was before. Regular users (i.e. !you and people like you) don't want to configure stuff. At all. Ever. They want to write the memo, send the email, make the document and then go the hell home. Or they want to print the photo, buy junk on eBay, send the email, look at the funny video, and go the hell out to the pub.

Configuring windows into groups with a programmable window manager is, oddly enough, not on these users' radar.

KDE has chosen to plough a different furrow, and that Kontrol Kentre will come back to bite them in the bum, mark my words. It's already like the elephant in the boardroom.

Post #198,581

by imric

3/14/05 3:06:07 PM

One last word (can't resist)

If a user doesn't want to configure, they won't. Configurability does not lessen the value of the desktop. Those clueless users that want only what everybody else has, and no more, they shouldn't be forced to configure. By all means, sane defaults!

But... being forced to do the equivalent of editing the registry to tweak (unless, as has been pointed out, you install some other package that makes it easy to configure but is not part of Gnome) does NOT ad value to the desktop. Making it a PITA to tweak isn't locking it down either (as should be possible, and I've said elsewhere) - it's just a PITA.

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Bizarre KDE Bug - (cwbrenn) - (83) - March 13, 2005, 10:18:24 AM EST

That IS strange. - (imric) - March 13, 2005, 01:41:25 PM EST

I have the answer... - (folkert) - (81) - March 13, 2005, 04:57:23 PM EST

Yabut - (altmann) - (1) - March 13, 2005, 05:20:44 PM EST

You didn't get my meaning of... - (folkert) - March 13, 2005, 06:45:22 PM EST

I've had no problems with KDE - (cwbrenn) - (77) - March 13, 2005, 05:41:14 PM EST

Oh, I know Chris.... - (folkert) - (76) - March 13, 2005, 06:46:38 PM EST

Oh - OK. Gnome sucks. - (imric) - (75) - March 13, 2005, 07:23:14 PM EST

I use GNOME. - (folkert) - (55) - March 13, 2005, 11:35:14 PM EST

No, it's not insane. - (pwhysall) - (45) - March 14, 2005, 02:16:52 AM EST

*shakes head sadly* - (imric) - (44) - March 14, 2005, 07:05:41 AM EST

/me points at KDE - (pwhysall) - (1) - March 14, 2005, 07:22:20 AM EST

I agree! - (imric) - March 14, 2005, 08:44:59 AM EST

Except - (ubernostrum) - (41) - March 14, 2005, 08:16:54 AM EST

Ummm. - (imric) - (40) - March 14, 2005, 08:42:44 AM EST

I don't think it's silly at all. - (pwhysall) - (39) - March 14, 2005, 09:05:05 AM EST

What's silly - (imric) - (36) - March 14, 2005, 10:30:18 AM EST

I don't think it's a hedge argument. - (cwbrenn) - (1) - March 14, 2005, 10:54:17 AM EST

Mebbe. - (imric) - March 14, 2005, 11:17:30 AM EST

Feel free to ask for whatever you like. - (pwhysall) - (6) - March 14, 2005, 11:15:10 AM EST

Re: Feel free to ask for whatever you like. - (ubernostrum) - March 14, 2005, 11:29:47 AM EST

To be honest, it's not that important to me - (imric) - (3) - March 14, 2005, 11:51:47 AM EST

To most computer users, - (ubernostrum) - (2) - March 14, 2005, 12:30:27 PM EST

No it means "I can change the wallpaper." - (static) - (1) - March 14, 2005, 10:04:03 PM EST

That's been a big thing in web-design the past few years. - (ubernostrum) - March 15, 2005, 07:56:13 PM EST

Tell that to Microsoft - (drewk) - March 14, 2005, 12:23:40 PM EST

I see. - (ubernostrum) - (26) - March 14, 2005, 11:25:43 AM EST

ROFL - actually, right! - (imric) - (25) - March 14, 2005, 11:58:54 AM EST

Ah yes, all that configurability. - (ubernostrum) - (24) - March 14, 2005, 12:19:13 PM EST

Ah yes, all that availability. - (imric) - (23) - March 14, 2005, 12:40:52 PM EST

You don't get it. - (ubernostrum) - (22) - March 14, 2005, 01:10:52 PM EST

Huh? - (bepatient) - (16) - March 14, 2005, 01:43:10 PM EST

"Removing functionality people find useful" - (ubernostrum) - (15) - March 14, 2005, 01:59:19 PM EST

Different Levels of Configuration options. - (folkert) - (14) - March 14, 2005, 02:57:26 PM EST

Harder than you think. - (pwhysall) - March 14, 2005, 03:25:01 PM EST

Users are stupid. - (ubernostrum) - (12) - March 14, 2005, 05:05:49 PM EST

I wonder... - (folkert) - (11) - March 14, 2005, 07:20:02 PM EST

I'm not. - (ubernostrum) - (10) - March 14, 2005, 08:44:29 PM EST

Bah. Firefox made configuration tweaking MORE accessable. -NT - (imric) - (9) - March 14, 2005, 09:02:52 PM EST

To expand on that - (drewk) - (6) - March 14, 2005, 10:36:56 PM EST

And I'm saying - (ubernostrum) - (5) - March 15, 2005, 04:13:38 PM EST

I completely disagree with that assertion. - (bepatient) - (4) - March 15, 2005, 06:28:50 PM EST

Let me explain something to you. - (ubernostrum) - (3) - March 15, 2005, 07:51:42 PM EST

Now let *me* explain something to *you* - (drewk) - (1) - March 15, 2005, 11:43:19 PM EST

Bug. Bug. Bug. Distro Bug. Not a bug. Bug. - (pwhysall) - March 16, 2005, 01:18:14 AM EST

Re: Let me explain something to you. - (bepatient) - March 16, 2005, 08:29:19 AM EST

Re: Bah. Firefox made configuration tweaking MORE accessabl - (ubernostrum) - (1) - March 15, 2005, 04:13:11 PM EST

So what? - (imric) - March 15, 2005, 04:31:43 PM EST

Ummm. What? - (imric) - (4) - March 14, 2005, 02:06:53 PM EST

The gconf editor is no harder than about:config -NT - (pwhysall) - (3) - March 14, 2005, 02:36:48 PM EST

And about:config is easier - (imric) - (2) - March 14, 2005, 02:42:00 PM EST

What was there before... - (pwhysall) - (1) - March 14, 2005, 02:46:48 PM EST

One last word (can't resist) - (imric) - March 14, 2005, 03:06:07 PM EST

Zenworks... - (folkert) - (1) - March 14, 2005, 02:36:41 PM EST

Does Linux Zenworks do policy, and if so, how? -NT - (pwhysall) - March 14, 2005, 02:37:32 PM EST

What Peter said. - (ubernostrum) - (8) - March 14, 2005, 02:39:06 AM EST

That's fine but... - (ben_tilly) - (6) - March 14, 2005, 03:10:21 AM EST

I sympathise with that. - (pwhysall) - (1) - March 14, 2005, 03:16:49 AM EST

I'm pickier than you think - (ben_tilly) - March 14, 2005, 11:20:28 AM EST

GNOME integration - (ubernostrum) - (3) - March 14, 2005, 06:09:49 AM EST

To me, GNOME sucks less than most other stuff. - (folkert) - (2) - March 14, 2005, 08:19:00 AM EST

Coming from OS/2... - (cwbrenn) - March 14, 2005, 10:45:11 AM EST

Maybe doing it every day is the trick - (ben_tilly) - March 14, 2005, 11:15:13 AM EST

That's really the part that ticks me off: - (admin) - March 14, 2005, 11:10:55 AM EST

What about those SMB shares? - (Another Scott) - (18) - March 14, 2005, 09:32:21 PM EST

You can do all of that! - (pwhysall) - (17) - March 15, 2005, 01:32:23 AM EST

Couldn't prove it by me. - (imric) - (7) - March 15, 2005, 06:50:05 AM EST

Worked out-of-the-box for me. - (ubernostrum) - (6) - March 15, 2005, 04:15:41 PM EST

Which means what? - (imric) - (5) - March 15, 2005, 04:44:58 PM EST

Honestly? - (ubernostrum) - (4) - March 15, 2005, 07:58:14 PM EST

Uh huh. Yah. This discussion is OVER. - (imric) - (3) - March 15, 2005, 08:30:10 PM EST

Really? - (ubernostrum) - (1) - March 15, 2005, 08:46:41 PM EST

pull the other one - (boxley) - March 15, 2005, 09:15:35 PM EST

s/darkness/being the defacto Linux standard DE/ - (pwhysall) - March 16, 2005, 01:19:10 AM EST

Behold! The new BMW Gnome 75! - (Another Scott) - (8) - March 15, 2005, 07:38:43 AM EST

Ah, yes. - (ubernostrum) - (7) - March 15, 2005, 04:18:44 PM EST

Happy to oblige. :-/ -NT - (Another Scott) - March 15, 2005, 04:38:48 PM EST

When in doubt, claim superiority. -NT - (bepatient) - (4) - March 15, 2005, 06:30:27 PM EST

Re: When in doubt, claim superiority. - (ubernostrum) - (3) - March 15, 2005, 07:49:54 PM EST

That's a false dichotomy. - (admin) - (2) - March 15, 2005, 10:00:20 PM EST

Nobody ever said "no configuration" - (ubernostrum) - (1) - March 15, 2005, 10:27:40 PM EST

Neither did I. -NT - (admin) - March 15, 2005, 10:37:23 PM EST

We seem to be talking about different things. - (Another Scott) - March 15, 2005, 11:24:27 PM EST

Thats why I use XFCE. - (bepatient) - March 14, 2005, 08:26:18 AM EST

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