Feel free to ask for whatever you like.

Post #198,482

3/14/05 11:15:10 AM

However, unless you pay someone to write it for you, you will have to either make a very convincing case that feature X is worthy of inclusion in GNOME or else write it yourself. Remember, every Linux distribution comes with a powerful configuration tool called "gcc".

Seriously, though, it's hard to justify the effort spent on developing features that will be used by a very, very small minority of the user base, when there are huge, pressing problems that need to be solved (i18n, a11y) that are very demanding on developer time. And yes, getting IBM or Sun to ship GNOME is a sure-fire way to get eyeballs, because these guys are talking about putting Linux in front of tens of thousands of people—ordinary office dwellers—at a time. What developer wouldn't want a piece of that action?

You can ask; you're not the first person to wonder about the configurability of GNOME, and you won't be the last. The simple truth is that for 99% of people, changing simple things like the desktop font, colour and wallpaper is all the configurability they need. These people are the audience for GNOME.

It's a simple waste of time to expend anything other than 1% of the effort on the other 1% of users.

The other problem, of course (I read a thread about this on gnome-desktop-devel the other day) is that the kind of people from whom GNOME wants to solicit input are precisely the kind of people who do not post to mailing lists or use web forums about computers and software. You need to visit, talk to and watch to see what they really want, need and do. This often varies widely from what they'll tell you that they want, need and do :-)

The proof of the pudding is of course in the eating, and there was a project to undo some of the GNOME developer's latest things, the GoneME project. Died through lack of interest.

It's a shame that GNOME doesn't meet your needs. I think that with some work and some more good applications, it'll help bring It Just Works to more people than anything else.

Post #198,494

by ubernostrum

3/14/05 11:29:47 AM

Re: Feel free to ask for whatever you like.

You need to visit, talk to and watch to see what they really want, need and do. This often varies widely from what they'll tell you that they want, need and do :-)

\r\n\r\n

Which is why usability testing and "market research"/focus groups are two different things, a fact that a certain OSNews columnist would benefit from learning...

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]

Post #198,504

by imric

3/14/05 11:51:47 AM

To be honest, it's not that important to me

I'll just continue to use KDE. It's not as if you choose one, you can't run apps written for the other.

"Seriously, though, it's hard to justify the effort spent on developing features that will be used by a very, very small minority of the user base"

Here's where we diverge, I think. Unless you think that business use doesn't influence personal use and vice-versa, I don't see where this is coming from. Like I said, I see a LARGE chunk of personal users that want highly personalized systems - business might not want that, but then the Gnome developers are actually trying to marginalize Gnome into a niche product. It might be a LARGE niche, but niche it remains.

"And yes, getting IBM or Sun to ship GNOME is a sure-fire way to get eyeballs, because these guys are talking about putting Linux in front of tens of thousands of people\ufffdordinary office dwellers\ufffdat a time"

Are you saying that since larger numbers of "the kind of people who do not post to mailing lists or use web forums about computers and software" are going to be using Gnome, this counts as 'eyeballs'? If they aren't the target audience, and therefore people who's requests are "hard to justify", isn't the argument really a hedge that says 'we don't have to listen to user requests'? (exaggerated, of course). Doesn't the idea that the targeted users don't provide feedback, if we get feedback it's not from our targeted users make the participation of IBM and Sun, or anyone that rolls out large numbers of desktops kind of irrelevant?

"I think that with some work and some more good applications, it'll help bring It Just Works to more people than anything else."

.
You may be right. If that comes about, though, I suspect it won't be because the people are asking for less configurability, but because it is imposed on them from above. And THAT will push them away from Gnome whenever they have a choice.

Look, I'm not trying to impugn Gnome or it's developers, I just think that this is a DEEP tactical error.

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #198,526

by ubernostrum

3/14/05 12:30:27 PM

To most computer users,

"Highly configurable" means "I can change the colors."

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]

Post #198,679

by static

3/14/05 10:03:28 PM

3/14/05 10:04:03 PM

No it means "I can change the wallpaper."

Most people don't change their colours. Or they pick from one of the standard sets and then go back to the default some days later. I know this because I *do* change my colours. Not only do I get incredulous comments from colleauges, but I am constantly finding applications that - often unconsiously - assume the end-user hasn't changed the system colours.

On the other hand, it is hard to find someone who *hasn't* change their wallpaper. :-)

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed

Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

Edited by static March 14, 2005, 10:04:03 PM EST

Expand All History

Post #198,857

by ubernostrum

3/15/05 7:56:13 PM

That's been a big thing in web-design the past few years.

I am constantly finding applications that - often unconsiously - assume the end-user hasn't changed the system colours.

\r\n\r\n

Used to be, once upon a time, that people would specify a font color and never realize it might conflict with something the user had specified for a background, or vice-versa. These days the W3C CSS validator will throw a warning if you specify a foreground color without a background color, or a background without a foreground.

--\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]

Post #198,524

by drewk

3/14/05 12:23:40 PM

Tell that to Microsoft

Everyone knows that they only use 10% of what's in Office. But everyone uses a different 10%, and all together they use it all. Yes, it's horribly bloated. Yes, it cointributes to security problems and ever-increasing hardware requirements.

But if you have 100 users, and each of them uses the same 99%, and each one has a unique requirement for another 1%, you end up with just over half the codebase dedicated to %1 slices of your market.

Don't we all bitch every time we see a website "best viewed in Internet Explorer"? Don't we always say, "Don't they know they're excluding 2/5/10/20% (pick your favorite study) of their potential market?" Why is it when companies choose to focus on 90% of their market they're idiots. But when Gnome's developers focus on 90% of the market they'd like to have they're being sensible?

Now if they were to say they're working on the 90% first, as someone suggested above they should say, I'd agree. But if they really do plan to ignore the 10%-ers I think it's a tactical mistake.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Welcome to IWETHEY!