NYT 2014 = Cronkite 1968?

Post #392,494 by rcareaga 7/28/14 3:11:35 PM 7/28/14 3:55:06 PM Reply	NYT 2014 = Cronkite 1968? I like and subscribe to the Times, but over the decades they have been notably timid about getting too far ahead of the sentiments of the teeming millions. That they feel safe enough to call for marijuana legalization puts me in mind of Cronkite's "Report from Vietnam" during the Tet Offensive. This was also greeted by screeches from the prevailing wisdom's dead-enders, but that Cronkite expressed his conclusion that the war was unwinnable (a judgment privately shared by General Creighton Abrams, the commander of US forces in that unhappy country: "We cannot win this goddamned war, and we ought to find a dignified way out"), and that CBS broadcast it, was an unmistakable sign that the old pro-war consensus was, like Humpty-Dumpty, shattered beyond the powers of monarchs, horses and men to repair. And how do you like them scrambled eggs, mmoffitt? Edit/addition: Speaking of Cronkite, he wrote this in 2006: "Today, our nation is fighting two wars: one abroad and one at home. While the war in Iraq is in the headlines, the other war is still being fought on our own streets. Its casualties are the wasted lives of our own citizens. I am speaking of the war on drugs. And I cannot help but wonder how many more lives, and how much more money, will be wasted before another Robert McNamara admits what is plain for all to see: the war on drugs is a failure." Alas, the poor old man lacked mmoffitt's mature perspective. codially, Edited by rcareaga July 28, 2014, 03:55:06 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #392,499 by folkert 7/28/14 4:45:35 PM Reply	Velly intellesting! All I will say is this little story from yesterday: My parent are members of the Presbyterian Church. They had a 2 hour long Congregational Meeting this past Sunday... to discuss three things. It was only supposed to be 30 minutes maximum: 1. This whole Gay Marriage thing... that was pretty much resolved in 10 minutes. Some people chose to leave. Just like some chose to leave allowing women to hold positions of "power". Basically approved, with many dissenting... but understanding you have to get the sinners in Church to help them. 2. This whole Legalization of Marijuana thing, again pretty much resolved in 10 minutes. Most begrudgingly agreed it was good, since some RICH (aka heavy contributing) members are on it right now for Cancer treatment. Basically approved. 3. Selling of a 6+ acres of land owned by the church to a for profit Nursing/retirement/assisted living facility. This facility is a "competing religious charter" based organization. They had to figure out: A) Whether or not to sell it to the entity. B) For what dollar amount versus the appraised value. C. Where the money should go. Not resolved in 1 hours and 40 minutes. Another meeting in 3 weeks with much more info being published/sent to the congregation. You see, these are mostly OLD people... even they are getting the whole Gay and Drug thing... but yet still can't agree on money and land. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #392,500 by drook 7/28/14 4:57:25 PM Reply	Because money and land actually matter The other things, it's mostly gut feeling and uninformed opinion. Once they get past the queasiness with the "other" they realize it just doesn't affect them. Money and land, however, those affect everyone. -- Drew
Post #392,501 by folkert 7/28/14 5:06:04 PM Reply	'zactly! -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #392,509 by a6l6e6x 7/28/14 5:32:08 PM Reply	+1 on that! Insight into the human mind, I say. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,527 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 8:03:01 AM Reply	What do I care what a bunch of damned yankees says about anything. You want me to heed the advice of the Worthless Thumb? Nice try. No thanks.
Post #392,531 by rcareaga 7/29/14 10:02:52 AM Reply	No one imagines anymore that you're persuadable (You've used the term "worthless thumb" before. I've not encountered it elsewhere, and the Great Gazoogle is unhelpful. Personal idiom?) I observe merely that, as with your heroic forbears who fought to advance their sacred cause 150 years ago for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with, you know, slavery or anything like that, the tide of war is turning against you (and as to that, the damned yankees would have to have burned every city to the ground, castrated the male population and sown the earth with salt to justify the sense of grievance you dead-enders nurture to the present day, and I can't help thinking that such an approach would have yielded a healthier polity this century). Be of good cheer, though! If the Feds back off and redesignate The Weed with Roots in Hell That Killed Uncle Bob as non-Schedule 1, this will likely leave the issue of prohibition with the individual states, the way repeal of the Volstead Act did. Quite likely Indiana will stay in the fight, and if they do not, there is always Mississippi, which remained "dry" until 1966. Good times! cordially,
Post #392,532 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 10:47:37 AM Reply	It is a personal idiom. One which, I submit, accurately describes the regions of DE, MA, NY, CT, ME, DC and NJ. Take away bit processing and paper pushing and those folks have literally nothing to contribute. Left to their own devices, they'd starve in a fortnight. Yet somehow they've managed to nearly destroy the entire economy twice. As a bonus, they gave us the first Civil War and this century is young enough and their policies and outright ownership of the federal government comprehensive enough to start a Civil War in this century and keep their string of "contributions" alive. With respect to your characterization of me being an unhip, uncool dead-ender, I take no offense. The best years of this country are behind it; there is no saving it now. The best days of this country came about when the now idiotic notions such as, "It isn't in one's best interest to be a drug addict" were held by the majority. These were not the views of the unkempt, unwashed fringe of The Haight during the era and I concede those "stupid old ideas" have fallen out of favor with the majority and it appears increasingly as though the theretofore considered "rantings of the drug crazed minority" have become de riguere. So, I accept willingly the appellation "dead-ender." I also confess I am quite pleased that my childhood heroes Illych and Sergeyevich are to be proven at least partially right and that this will happen likely in my lifetime - we will fall and from within.
Post #392,533 by pwhysall 7/29/14 12:19:19 PM Reply	Re: It is a personal idiom. Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.
Post #392,535 by Another Scott 7/29/14 12:26:45 PM Reply	rofl. :-)
Post #392,534 by rcareaga 7/29/14 12:23:13 PM Reply	and as an added bonus In that case, you'll also live long enough to see those damn kids get off your lawn. For the rest, I'll take your "worthless thumb" over the pus-filled cyst that is the American South. cordially,
Post #392,537 by folkert 7/29/14 12:39:39 PM Reply	Now now... Let's not get nasty about pus. You might hurt its feelings. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #392,539 by rcareaga 7/29/14 12:50:26 PM Reply	Ubi pus, ibi evacua
Post #392,538 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 12:49:43 PM 7/29/14 12:54:34 PM Reply	I knew you were a closet bankster fan. [Edit] Seriously? You prefer this: http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/01/51/0151fbf1889696feed879ee8ffa37396.jpg to this: http://www.comforceasheville.com/images/AshevilleDowntownDay.gif boggle Edited by mmoffitt July 29, 2014, 12:54:34 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #392,541 by malraux 7/29/14 1:05:54 PM Reply	Cherry-picking for fun and profit. Pretty sure you're not that dumb, Mike, so you must be aware that you're being disingenuous. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #392,542 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 1:08:43 PM Reply	Okay. Mea Culpa. But even with all its warts I'd still rather live in the South or, $DEITY help me, Indiana than anywhere in the Northeast.
Post #392,544 by malraux 7/29/14 1:11:42 PM Reply	Not me. Fundies, humidity, and way too many hard right conservatives for my taste. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #392,549 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 2:02:57 PM Reply	Vermont might be okay. But I grew up in Southern Cal so I know what it's like to live on an ant hill. I had way too much of that. In the South you still have the opportunity for space. And the Blue Ridge Mountains are not all that humid. Of course, there are the Copperheads, Cottonmouths and rattlesnakes to contend with.
Post #392,557 by malraux 7/29/14 3:11:07 PM Reply	You don't think all of NY looks like NYC, right? Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #392,559 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 3:12:12 PM Reply	Sure. Some of it looks like Buffalo. (just kidding)
Post #392,546 by rcareaga 7/29/14 1:38:46 PM Reply	To paraphrase the late Herb Caen It's pleasant to think that the kind of people who prefer Indiana to Massachusetts tend to live in Indiana. (and yeah, as malreaux points out, one could as well trot out a picture of a tony neighborhood in Princeton NJ and pair it with a particularly unphotogenic trailerpark out in the White Trash Mountains of Kentucky without scoring any meaningful points for the favored region.) cordially,
Post #392,548 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 1:59:35 PM Reply	And support those living in MA, NJ, NY, etc sic nauseum.
Post #392,551 by rcareaga 7/29/14 2:43:12 PM Reply	Walked right into that one, didn't you? Federal tax dollars received vs. federal tax dollars paid: New Jersey: 0.61:1.00 New York: 0.79:1.00 Massachusetts: 0.82:1.00 Indiana: 1.05:1.00 Tell us again about how you stalwart midwestern yeomen subsidize the "takers" in the Northeast? Gawd, but you're a pretty big fish in a pretty small barrel. cordially,
Post #392,552 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 2:56:02 PM Reply	I ain't talkin' just about the taxes, Sparky. How many investment banksters are in MA? You think that ain't stealin'?
Post #392,553 by Another Scott 7/29/14 3:02:07 PM Reply	At least 4 billionaires live in Indiana. http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/hoosiers-forbes-400-richest-people-list-55813/ HTH!! Cheers, Scott.
Post #392,558 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 3:11:14 PM Reply	Dang, 0.5 * MA billionaires. Thanks for the non-answer answer.
Post #392,563 by Another Scott 7/29/14 3:20:39 PM Reply	Anytime. I still get a chuckle out of the idea of arguing with a Marxist with his own private airplane. :-D Cheers, Scott.
Post #392,565 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 3:37:10 PM Reply	You mean Aeroflot West? ;0)
Post #392,566 by Andrew Grygus 7/29/14 3:56:58 PM Reply	"From each according to his abilities . . . . . to each according to his needs." I'm sure he can come up with some very good reasons why he really, really needs that airplane.
Post #392,570 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 4:48:35 PM Reply	I have only one good reason. I will be directing the revolution from the air.
Post #392,573 by Andrew Grygus 7/29/14 5:32:31 PM Reply	Not for long - the Russians . . . . . will happily sell the capitalists SA-3/S125s.
Post #392,554 by rcareaga 7/29/14 3:04:48 PM Reply	Nice save: Not.
Post #392,567 by rcareaga 7/29/14 4:09:49 PM Reply	talk about "disingenuous." Actually, this riposte screeches right over disingenuous and right into dishonesty.
Post #392,569 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 4:46:04 PM Reply	Dishonest? How so? State Street Corp, Nuance, OneBeacon Insurance, EMC, Akamai, Eaton Vance, Kopin Corp, are these not all bit twiddlers or paper pushers? In what way is it dishonest to say so? But let's not isolate the Worthless Thumb to just MA. The biggest waste of everything is New York. There's not a single person on Wall Street, arguably on the entire Manhattan Island, who ever got a dime that he didn't steal from someone else - in most cases a Non-New Yorker. The only thing Wall Street and their Boston based cousins are good for is extracting all value from something - anything. Goldman was at one time (perhaps still is) the world's largest oil company. Do they do anything with the oil? Nope. Do they even receive oil? Nope, don't have the ability. But they can make tens of millions of dollars by insuring that all the people who use it pay them for nothing. They took our pensions, they took the value of our homes, they screwed the entire world's economy up by playing with oil prices and betting against their own "products" and they're well on their way to screwing us even harder should we "decide" to "consume" health care. They are now and always have been a non-value-added tax upon virtually everything that is used in this country. And, as another bonus, they own our alleged representation in DC. Plain and simple these people are not to be trusted, not the best of them.
Post #392,571 by rcareaga 7/29/14 5:07:41 PM Reply	hyperbole much? There's not a single person on Wall Street, arguably on the entire Manhattan Island, who ever got a dime that he didn't steal from someone else And there's not a single North American of European descent living today who didn't personally participate in the extermination of the continent's indigenous peoples. Geez, mmoffitt, listen to yourself!
Post #392,579 by malraux 7/29/14 6:27:43 PM Reply	I have never exaggerated in my entire life! Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #392,574 by boxley 7/29/14 5:41:47 PM Reply	hookers and coke dealers dont contribute? disagree Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #392,594 by Ashton 7/30/14 4:23:36 AM 7/30/14 4:43:40 AM Reply	Re: Dishonest? How so? (You didn't need any hyperbole..) That the vast %wealth of the dis-USA IS in the pockets of effete-inheritors, of System-gamers, of the mere ethics-free ordinary greed-driven--sociopaths most-all--seems obvious by inspection. Further psychoanalyzing all of these, merely adds colorless-detail to a bunch of exploitive misanthropes: now owning simply %ludicrous of All [material + services] There Is. Does one really need numbers to more than a couple decimal places to see this utter Proof-of-failure? Does one need Robert's Rules of Order for the obvious to be adjudged-sane/else the conclusion may be ignored? Marx 'won', but mayhap.. had he addressed/parsed a question of ~ "whether Vulture-capitalism might be.. corralled into some potentially benign direction" (?) his Win might now be uncontested--he left a loophole for that argument. Besides, it wasn't Marxism which was proven-faulty: Stalin's personality alone, as solo dictator: annulled any checks and balances of that 'democratic centralism'--a self-evident root of Lenin's idea of practical governance (unless I missed 3 or 4 others. Nothing is ever this simple.) This is all moot, here. 'Capitalism' (especially the destructive mind-sets in all other areas of Life, which it inculcates) focusses upon clever, ethics-free manipulations on all scales: is therefore Anti-Society of any sort (unless one accepts the gambling palace rubric, Winner Takes All.) (As to the prevailing gullibility and pig-ignorance: you can blame whatever -ism includes a financial model which guarantees that a large majority of the populace shall remain perpetually insecure; of food, medical care and domicile. Screw the pot, too: Muricans were as oblivious before as during its rise as an Escape-nostrum from the prevailing shitty-zeitgeist. Ed: double [-] Edited by Ashton July 30, 2014, 04:43:40 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #392,568 by rcareaga 7/29/14 4:09:55 PM 7/29/14 4:11:15 PM Reply	inexplicable dupe (a handle we might apply to the target) Edited by rcareaga July 29, 2014, 04:11:15 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #392,547 by pwhysall 7/29/14 1:40:49 PM Reply	Jesusland? No thanks.
Post #392,556 by boxley 7/29/14 3:09:18 PM Reply	that may be overblown most of the reasons folks that go to church in the south is to meet other folks wives. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #392,560 by mmoffitt 7/29/14 3:12:51 PM Reply	And daughters. And cousins. ;0)
Post #392,576 by drook 7/29/14 6:01:11 PM Reply	They can stay home and meet daughters. And cousins. -- Drew
Post #392,600 by mmoffitt 7/30/14 8:08:08 AM Reply	I meant neighbor's daughter's and cousins. Oops. Forget it. You're right. ;0)
Post #392,543 by boxley 7/29/14 1:08:56 PM Reply	my new landlrd is a repo state rep for the state of ms, med weed is coming there soon Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
Post #392,654 by rcareaga 7/31/14 12:46:45 PM 7/31/14 12:47:53 PM Reply	Back on topic The editorial wasn't a one-off. The Times has been going at the issue hammer and tongs all week. I find the arguments advanced in this series persuasive, but since I am predisposed to be sympathetic to these (owing, in mmoffitt's view, to early exposure to the Killer Weed having left me irredeemably brain-damaged), this probably won't carry any cred with our resident Commie Confederate. Still, the whole chain of editorials is worth using up half a dozen of your month's worth of free* page views. cordially, I pay for access. I'm told most IT professionals can effortlessly slice through the paywall at need. Edit: Or ought I have said "hammer and bongs*?" Edited by rcareaga July 31, 2014, 12:47:53 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #392,656 by mmoffitt 7/31/14 1:54:44 PM Reply	Question. Are you asking me to read the newspaper Judith Miller made (in)famous and take that source as a credible source of accurate information and informed opinion? What's next? The OpEd's at newsmax?
Post #392,657 by rcareaga 7/31/14 2:48:49 PM Reply	Answer: Yes Because although Judith Miller's "reporting" remains a very dark blot on the Grey lady's escutcheon, and an indictment of its editors' cowardice and cringing collaboration as the Cheney Shogunate trampled the Constitution and pawed the earth, the Times remains, rather like the government of Prussia* as Hitler consolidated his hold on Germany, among the last institutional strongholds of resistance. Would you rather rely on the Indianapolis Star? cordially, I recommend Christopher Clark's Iron Kingdom* to anyone interested in the fascinating history of Prussia, including its unjustly ignored resistance to the rise of the Nazis and its dissolution by the victorious Allied powers. More info here, assuming you'll trust the opinion of a Yankee rag.
Post #392,659 by crazy 7/31/14 2:54:17 PM Reply	nope, Washington Post And they dissect most of your previous arguments as well since you tend to parrot the standard talking points. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/30/the-federal-governments-incredibly-poor-misleading-argument-for-marijuana-prohibition/?wpsrc=AG0003376
Post #392,660 by mmoffitt 7/31/14 3:11:34 PM Reply	Gee, I'm convinced. A stoner made a blog post.
Post #392,663 by crazy 7/31/14 3:23:53 PM Reply	ah, ad hominem I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked! Which is the same argument you used against the newspaper above. Shocked!
Post #392,664 by crazy 7/31/14 3:55:30 PM Reply	But even so, I'll bite http://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/christopher-ingraham https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopheringraham I'd take this guy's analysis over yours on any subject. He does data, not emotion.
Post #392,665 by mmoffitt 7/31/14 4:02:05 PM Reply	Apologies. I promise this is my first reply that will be on topic. I don't care. With our meedja and incomprehensibly corrupt president leading us into what might actually become a shooting war with Russia (even Ronnie Rayguns didn't pull that off), whether or not it becomes legal for the entire nation to be stoned and give (remarkably!) even less thought to US-Russian (let alone global) relations is of very little interest to me. Is the irony of making the comparison of the NY Times advocacy for drug use and Cronkite's criticism of the Viet Nam War at a time when that same source is beating the president's war drums lost on you?
Post #392,672 by rcareaga 7/31/14 5:13:22 PM Reply	tell you what, mmoffitt If we get into a shooting war with the Rooskies, I will personally purchase and deliver to you a kilogram of Matanuska Thunderfuck. cordially,
Post #392,676 by folkert 7/31/14 5:48:27 PM Reply	Given the strain... That'll be pretty damned spendy, should McCain's wet dream come true. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
Post #392,695 by mmoffitt 8/1/14 8:52:32 AM Reply	No offense, but I'll take Dr. Cohen's analysis over yours. Emphasis Mine. This, too, is a matter of “intelligence,” if any is being heeded in Washington. For historical, domestic and geopolitical reasons, Putin—or any other imaginable Kremlin leader—is unlikely to permit the Donbass to fall to Kiev, and thereby, as is firmly believed in Moscow, to Washington and NATO. If Putin does give the Donbass defenders heavy weapons, it may be because it is his only alternative to direct Russian military intervention, as Moscow’s diplomatic overtures have been rejected. The latter course could be limited to deploying Russian warplanes to protect eastern Ukraine from Kiev’s land and air forces, but perhaps not. Kremlin hawks, counterparts to Washington’s, are telling Putin to fight today in the Donbass or tomorrow in Crimea. Or as the head of the Carnegie Moscow Center summarizes their position, “It is no longer just a struggle for Ukraine, but a battle for Russia.” If the hawks on both sides prevail, it might well mean full-scale war. Has there been any other occasion in the modern history of American democracy when such a dire possibility loomed without any public protest at high levels or debate in the establishment media? Nonetheless, the way out is obvious to every informed observer: an immediate cease-fire, which must begin in Kiev, enabling negotiations over Ukraine’s future, the general contours of which are well known to all participants in this fateful crisis. http://www.thenation.com/article/180825/why-washington-risking-war-russia But, hey, have a doobie and chillax. Right?
Post #392,696 by rcareaga 8/1/14 11:46:58 AM Reply	I admired Cohen's work in the eighties ...but his analyses in recent years have become, ah, somewhat untethered. We'll roll up a spliff and talk it over again if WWIII comes. cordially,
Post #392,698 by a6l6e6x 8/1/14 12:11:07 PM Reply	Cohen is in Putin's pocket. A totally compromised agent. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,705 by mmoffitt 8/1/14 2:06:04 PM Reply	With respect, I don't think so. I think I've mentioned before that my late father and Cohen knew each other (not well, but corresponded with one another). My dad always held Cohen in high regard. I guess that rubbed off on me. I can't, and won't, discount his analysis. I know, firsthand, it is foolish to rely upon our press for accurate reporting on Russia, her government or her people. I'm very familiar with terms like "Soviet apologist" being hurled at anyone who suggests that there might be some error within the West's anti-Soviet propaganda. The similarities in our (US) "Soviet reporting" and "Putin reporting" are uncanny. I suspect that much of what has been written about Putin here could have been constructed by re-releasing all the stories on the CCCP and replacing "Soviet" with "Putin" or "Russia." I met Cohen only once, briefly, when I was very young. But I believe he is still his own man.
Post #392,711 by crazy 8/1/14 2:56:02 PM Reply	so you believe him When he says Russia doesn't have boots on the ground. Hheheeee hahahahahaa. http://www.businessinsider.my/russian-soldier-ukraine-2014-7/
Post #392,715 by mmoffitt 8/1/14 3:23:54 PM Reply	Your contribution >/dev/null I've read a lot of Cohen's writing about the situation in Ukraine, but I can't reconcile what I've read with what you put into sixth grade terminology. "Doesn't have boots on the ground" where? Crimea? There's no way in hell Cohen would say that because he knows it to be false. Business Insider as a source for information on Russia? You are most definitely an American.
Post #392,716 by crazy 8/1/14 3:34:21 PM Reply	as expected The latter course could be limited to deploying Russian warplanes to protect eastern Ukraine from Kiev’s land and air forces, but perhaps not. It's past that. So why mislead?
Post #392,719 by Another Scott 8/1/14 3:49:54 PM Reply	He may be (or have been) a good guy, but... From the article: If any professional “intelligence” existed in Washington, Putin’s reaction was foreseeable. Decades of NATO expansion to Russia’s border, and a failed 2008 US proposal to “fast-track” Ukraine into NATO, convinced him that the new US-backed Kiev government intended to seize all of Ukraine, including Russia’s historical province of Crimea, the site of its most important naval base. In March, Putin annexed Crimea. "In March, Putin annexed Crimea" tries to hide an awful lot of what Putin did before then, doesn't it? It's not like some town annexing a neighboring subdivision or something. Russia invaded, using unmarked uniforms. To reduce that all down to a sterile "Putin annexed Crimea" is telling, it seems to me. And how could the Ukranian government "seize" Ukranian territory?!? There was never any move by any Ukranian government to seize the port. The lease was recently extended for crying out loud. (And, he brings up history without the recognized fact that Crimea is and was Ukranian territory.) It's an apology for Putin, not a full and balanced discussion of the positions of both sides. A counterpoint from Remnick at the NewYorker (from March 1): In a recent Letter from Sochi, I tried to describe Putin’s motivations: his resentment of Western triumphalism and American power, after 1991; his paranoia that Washington is somehow behind every event in the world that he finds threatening, including the recent events in Kiev; his confidence that the U.S. and Europe are nonetheless weak, unlikely to respond to his swagger because they need his help in Syria and Iran; his increasingly vivid nationalist-conservative ideology, which relies, not least, on the elevation of the Russian Orthodox Church, which had been so brutally suppressed during most of the Soviet period, as a quasi-state religion supplying the government with its moral force. Obama and Putin spoke on the phone today for an hour and a half. The White House and Kremlin accounts of the call add up to what was clearly the equivalent of an angry standoff: lectures, counter-lectures, intimations of threats, intimations of counter-threats. But the leverage, for now, is all with Moscow. The legislators in the Russian parliament today parroted those features of modern Putinism. In order to justify the invasion of the Crimean peninsula, they repeatedly cited the threat of Ukrainian “fascists” in Kiev helping Russia’s enemies. They repeatedly echoed the need to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine—a theme consonant with the Kremlin’s rhetoric about Russians everywhere, including the Baltic States. But there was, of course, not one word about the sovereignty of Ukraine, which has been independent since the fall of the Soviet Union, in December, 1991. Emphasis added. Yup. Ukraine is not part of Russia nor part of some new Soviet-esque Union. It's an independent country. Putin has no say about who or how it has relations with its other neighbors. He doesn't have to like it, but that's the way it is. Changing borders by force as "well, it was theirs before" or "well, he moved some native speakers in there, so he has claim to the area" cannot be tolerated without serious consequences. Putin thought he could get what he wanted with just some grumbling from Europe and the US. He miscalculated. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #392,722 by mmoffitt 8/1/14 4:21:46 PM Reply	The government in Kiev is no more legal than the "separatist" leadership. Here's Cohen in March. (Bold is question posed to him) But do you think there’s absolutely reason to say it was wrong of Russia to intervene militarily in Ukraine? We don’t know that Putin went into Crimea. We literally don’t know. We’re talking about “facts” that are coming out of Kiev, which is a mass of disinformation. Do you think it might not have been Putin? No, no, no, that’s not what I mean. We don’t know. I think I know, but I don’t know for a fact. And as a scholar I stick to what I know. There are, it would appear, about 9,000 Russian troops milling around Crimea, on the streets, guarding buildings. There’s a naval base there. So by law, by contract, Russia has every right to be there. They have an infantry protecting it’s strategic facilities. I think they took the troops that they’re moving around Crimea from the Crimean naval base. I don’t know that they actually sent troops across the Russian-Crimean border. So if we’re going to use the word invasion we need to be precise. ... Everybody blamed Yanukovych for the snipers that killed people in Kiev on Maidan Square. I said at the time, how can we know who killed whom? How do we know? I said let’s wait. Now, evidently, the Estonian foreign minister told the foreign minister of the European Union that those were not government Yanukoyvch snipers, they were snipers from the right-wing movement in the streets, that it was a provocation. But I don’t know if it’s true. If this turns out to be true, can you turn the clock back? Can you say Yanukoyvch was legitimate and right? Can you bring him back to Kiev? No, that train left the station. When people such as myself say, Can we get the facts before we decide? they say, “Putin apologist!” But the protests in Ukraine still happened, whether or not those snipers were under Yanukoyvch’s direction. It was a very peaceful protest in November and into December. And John McCain went there and stood alongside one of the fascist leaders and put his arm around him. He didn’t know who he was. And [Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State] Victoria Nuland, we now know was plotting to overthrow the government, because we have the tape telling the American Ambassador, Here’s how we’re going to form a new government. That’s called a coup d’etat. Yanukoyvch was elected legally. Everybody said that election was fair. Do you see any merit in the protests? Of course. But let me turn it around. Let’s say the tea party says that Obama has violated American law and the Constitution through Obamacare. They surround the White House. They throw fire bombs at the White House security guard. Obama flees and the tea party puts Ted Cruz in the White House. Do we say that’s democracy? So how is it democracy in Ukraine? Why couldn’t they wait, by the way? The next presidential election was one year away. Why didn’t Washington and the EU say no? We’re democracies; that’s not how we do it. Peacefully protest all you want, but don’t throw firebombs at the policeman because if you did that in any democratic capital we’d open fire. Look what they did in London. Look what they did in Greece. Look what we did to Occupy [Wall Street]. They weren’t even violent and we beat them up and pepper sprayed them. That’s what we do. We believe you’ve got a right to peacefully protest. You get a permit and you go there and you can stay there until snow falls. That’s your right -- if you don’t block the traffic. But you can’t throw firebombs at policemen. That’s true in any country, in any democracy. But suddenly from our point of view it’s okay in Kiev. They’re freedom fighters. So Yanukoyvch, who was democratic elected, flees and now you’ve got a government in Kiev with no legal legitimacy in Ukrainian or international law that we’re now being told is a paragon of virtue. And you’ve got a parliament where they scared away the majority deputies who represented the governing party. And you’ve got a parliament passing crazy laws. http://www.newsweek.com/american-who-dared-make-putins-case-231388
Post #392,734 by Another Scott 8/1/14 7:36:17 PM Reply	Lots of "look over there!!1" verbiage. Russia had no right to invade Crimea. They had no right to invade Eastern Ukraine, either. https://twitter.com/GeoffPyatt/status/493400313622446081/photo/1 HTH! Cheers, Scott.
Post #392,764 by mmoffitt 8/3/14 11:53:00 AM Reply	And Saddam has WMD.
Post #392,723 by Ashton 8/1/14 4:51:47 PM Reply	All Know the precedents for "our Nationals are being harassed in ___" and how, serially that was employed re Sudetenland, etc. Then. Then, too: the only Western-rebuttal was military, not rhetorical. That, sometimes, it just could be true..? seems moot, ever since--via those crying-wolf precedents. I share more of MM's incredulity re Murican rationalizations than do you--as no better/worse-fabrications than All-players within the strangely-malleable code-words we are pleased to call diplomacy. That the entire dis-USA media are as corrupt as any monopoly/and of most Corporations: is a given. To believe otherwise is to ignore all past experience of same. We are each left to synthesize, via commentators or other sources which: we (merely) Hope to be less-tainted than the Known-tainted closet-advocates: the vast majority of 'Sources' extant. (We ARE 'The Lying Animal!'/bizness itself could not operate save by degrees of lying/misrepresentation via many means. Naivete is ever to presume (that one has divined an Exceptional font? both wise and incorruptible:) even though there just may remain a precious few of those!) Qui Bono? had best precede every such re-read, I wot.) And my Honest-Realtor, Trude is long-dead.. I can't find the Other one, said also to exist. We do not generate enough Adults to replenish/propagate many of these; certainly not enough to Manage 7+ Billions-already! of our overpopulated, pillaged/scourged nest. Even the Idea of "geometric lines + Earth-'ownership'" DEFINING a patch-work of +/- so-called "civil rights"--in the utter absence of an Enforceable Universal set of Rights! is beyond a travesty and well into--the longest-running Self-deception since hunter-gatherers roamed. Some apologias are more artfully crafted/contrived than others: but the worst self-induced 'mental-crime' I can think of is, to imagine that truthiness ever even appears! within the outline for Any Government-speak. We prize Wisdom because its mere possession is already-suspect--via all Other experience--and our own caution casts a veil over even The Real Thing: it is so fucking-Rare. I Despise this facet of homo-sap, but certainly I recognize that I must accept it. We'd best hope for more Luck than any Stats would ever project.. this Gigantic Machine's feedback servos and guidance systems are/remain WIndoze-grade in design, execution and 'maintenance' :-/
Post #392,717 by mmoffitt 8/1/14 3:34:45 PM Reply	To quote you, "Hheheeee hahahahahaa." Useful idiots are delightful. If you click through to the "buzzfeed" source, you'll see the below comment: Seriously? "..including manning a missile launcher system of the type used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17."?!?!? He was posting selfies to Instagram while doing military training, and now Russia is covertly operating in Ukraine? Also, if you follow the photo of the "BUK" to Instagram, by clicking on his IG name, that same exact photo says "сидим, работаем на буке, слушаем музыку, .." Translation: "sitting, working on the book, listening to music". Book...as in Russian slang for NOTEBOOK, it even has a laptop emoticon. He has not posted photos while "manning" anything. He is a communications specialist, they work on computers.. I mean, really! I realize this is Buzzfeed and not BBC, or another accredited news source, but for the love of all that is holy, please validate before you post absolute nonsense and some idiot thinks that this is actually true. Also, I do not see you posting the geolocation of American or British soldiers. Why the hell are you so dang curious and willing to give up Russian security and lives? Max Seddon, this is not news, it's childish gossip for those who are clearly bored at work, please stop being nonsensical.
Post #392,738 by a6l6e6x 8/1/14 11:26:30 PM Reply	Well, he's now at minimum senile and can't think straight. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,704 by crazy 8/1/14 1:38:06 PM Reply	The times, they are achangin' http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/08/01/pa-senator-colorado-trip-included-taking-hits-of-pot/
Post #392,708 by drook 8/1/14 2:21:08 PM Reply	Here's one I hadn't thought of Drug testing. Pot is illegal in your state, it's legal five minutes away in the neighboring state. You pop positive on a test. Your defense is now, "Yeah, so?" -- Drew
Post #392,710 by crazy 8/1/14 2:48:04 PM 8/1/14 3:17:18 PM Reply	doesn't matter If your company had a federal contract, they have federal drug law standards. If they have a "drug free workplace" standard, same. There is no defense against arbitrary workplace rules. Some will fire cigarette smokers, no appeal. If you are not part of a protected class and fired specifically for membership, you are screwed. In his case he gets to determine his office's drug rule policy. He's an "owner". Most of us do not have that flexibility. Same for mmj. https://www.google.com/search?q=fired+medical+marijuana Edited by crazy Aug. 1, 2014, 03:17:18 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #392,721 by rcareaga 8/1/14 4:12:05 PM Reply	Ayup BDS'd fire my elderly arse in a heartbeat to stay on the side of the angels as construed by the federal standards. If, as I'm now fairly confident, California legalizes in another couple of years, I'd bet the rent that the policy will remain quite implacably in force. cordially,
Post #392,724 by crazy 8/1/14 4:53:07 PM 8/1/14 4:58:11 PM Reply	whenever I see BDS I read it as Brain Damaged Software, my first non-Unix C compiler. http://www.bdsoft.com/resources/bdsc.html http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDS_C Edited by crazy Aug. 1, 2014, 04:58:11 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #392,726 by Ashton 8/1/14 6:07:33 PM Reply	Ed Ziemba.. A co-worker at BDS ... last-name; one I'd heard; odd-names I seem to recall better than most. (You have to Find:(name) within that link) Was a 25 yo MIT grad; as you see in those few sentences: had he not drowned in a weird snorkeling accident ... In a Pond!? way-back: Well.. if not hyperbole: imagine OS X vastly-earlier? Some Z-guy steals all of Jobs' early-thunder? Strange Universe we inhabit: it forks; every mSec.
Post #392,733 by Another Scott 8/1/14 7:23:28 PM Reply	InfoWorld had a short story on him. August 17, 1981 issue. It's amazing what those folks were able to do with such tiny amounts of memory. Cheers, Scott.
Post #392,743 by Ashton 8/2/14 4:45:25 AM Reply	Ever since WordStar in 58k.. have we not seen that slick tight code.. the brash young Billy crowed about, balloon into the n-million lines: in a bloody OS!? ... (not some gigundo-App.) Sure, new high-res graphics etc. but in practice: has not practice become sloppier?, thus ever-bloated--with all the consequent problems of Finding, amidst tens-of-thousands: those regular 'buffer overflows, created by 'Team' fragmentation of every project?'? (and how many new grads of computer-munging have ever read The Mythical Man-Month?) I mean: when Billy decided that "640K is LOTS of memory", (so let's make that the next-10-year Std) was not already.. Moore's Law a shibboleth? 20/20 hindsight and all, it's eerie to contemplate just this odd happenstance: an innocent 'BDS' TLA mentioned here, leading to comment about the random loss of just One promising innovator. (Then I imagine all the talent (and their discoveries) adsorbed into M/Soft and, simply buried.) All these Years! and M/Soft remains: the Pinnacle of sustained-Mediocrity. They HAD the Power to rapidly excel/advance on all fronts--controlled by an arrogant/rich child-dropout whos aims were: merely to be The Monopolist. In that he succeeded as all of the world Lost (unknowable Things.) (The World got.. DLL-Hell, bogus drivers-roulette, inane Naming of processes!--merely to be Different--and All Those Oversights in every design!) It seems another clear indictment of the Vulture-capitalist process: which always places the Greediest/not the Smartest at the apex of all bizness pyramids :-/ {sigh} Can't we do Anything? beyond mere system-gaming cleverness, as Brilliance gets no Respect (certainly little Power.) We won't handle the looming existential matters via this Model of stark-Incompetence. I wot.
Post #392,739 by a6l6e6x 8/1/14 11:36:18 PM Reply	Good catch! No wonder there was a vague recollection of BDS. But, back in those days, I used an assembler. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,858 by crazy 8/6/14 10:28:27 AM Reply	like here http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2014/08/05/pima-county-official-wants-to-stop-hiring-smokers/13626509/ And I am somewhat supportive of this. At my last job I paid an extra $100 per month for my health insurance for being a smoker. It does cost more to take care of us in the health system. I also knew my productivity was less due to me taking smoke breaks because I could not smoke in the building, which is why I actually quit smoking my final month when I was there. On the other hand, some people smoke strictly on off hours, maybe an occasional cigar or pipe and manage not to have it affect their job, and for those people, this sucks.
Post #392,860 by a6l6e6x 8/6/14 10:44:20 AM Reply	On the other hand... those smokers huddling outdoors get a chance to network with their kind. I had seen that pay off at IBM. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #392,863 by crazy 8/6/14 11:01:17 AM Reply	for sure Even when I did not smoke, I would take an occasional outdoors break. At that point I could bullshit with top level execs with no boss mediation.
Post #393,009 by Ashton 8/10/14 12:15:22 AM Reply	Passed along.. +5 Smart I think that's a valuable insight for anyone under the thrall of corporate--who wants to survive. Think also that it's indicative of your ability to crunch some topic via an unusual overview (of what affects it.) All this despite the alleged drain bamage you have suffered via science-experiments-on-self. (Who Knows!? how affable, get-along puppy-friendly (and banal..) you might have become..) had you merely submitted to pop-ƒeare ... of anything not Authorized by er.. you know. Personally I'lll trade insight for that warm-fuzzy-acceptance gained by reinforcing the mob/local or larger. Cheap endorphins are like Two-Buck chuck, I wot: ersatz. Luck on Tues. ... ... (Whatever happens, you know you couldn't have let Puritanism be a guide other-than: No! Don't conform to institutionalized sanctimony-in-all-things. Right?) Law above fear, justice above law, mercy above justice, love above all.
Post #393,026 by crazy 8/10/14 12:07:26 PM Reply	No idea level of drain bamage, but On my 1st week of the job (8 years ago) I was talking to a very attractive blonde corp project manager at my 1st after work bar gathering. I was not touching anything in those days, so sipping coke while they all got trashed. I explain that I had over indulged in my youth, so I was staying away from it for now. I assume she was in ass kiss mode, since she said it was probably a good thing I did so many drugs in my youth, it knocked off enough IQ points that I could deal with mere mortals at that point. On the other hand, I felt I had merely hit the age that my testosterone was dropping and my verbal skills were increasing, along with a self confidence level achieved through many years of accomplishments, which allowed me to speak to her without being afraid. She was gorgeous. And fucking her boss' husband who also worked at the company. Damn, that was a blowup when it all came out.
Post #393,301 by Ashton 8/17/14 5:28:25 PM Reply	Heh.. Tardily.. it more and more seems that that Corporate Experience (which I have luckily evaded all-aong) creates its own Alt-liff wherein, the glands supersede all the pop-psych mores with a wink/nudge. I (merely) suspect that this constitutes also some sort of just-revenge against the utter boredom of contemplating: that all one's daily efforts are sucked into the multiplying-riches of some of the more odious personalities on the planet. er, Tit.. for Tat -tered-dreams of say, authentic compensation for efforts made? but only on behalf of the monumentally ungrateful, mentioned dregs of humanity. Love. It. gratefully from ... ... afar. (Unsure whether I could have coped with the onion layers there; still there was.. this grand-daughter (?) of Otto Hahn--Nobel chemist, discoverer of fission) --so maybe all 'Enterprises' are alike. It's where we spit in the eye of the first Puritan ever spawned.
Post #393,041 by scoenye 8/10/14 10:36:46 PM Reply	Not how it works It was quite common for 0 got hauled off to jail and charged with underage possession of alcohol.

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