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New Read the history of guerilla conflicts
it is replete with examples of large, well-armed, wealthy nations being brought to heel by small, low-tech, poor forces.

... and yes, he does hate the current leadership of Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries; he sees them as toads to the American behemoth.

Western Civilization need not imply the existence of an Eastern Civilization; it only needs to imply the existence of other civilizations... like China, SE Asian, Arab, African.

Is Iraq really that good a place? After all, that's what Kennedy thought about Vietnam as a way of dealing with communism in SE Asia.

To denigrate bin Laden as "not intelligent" or dumb is to risk greatly underestimating him. Let's see... he's managed to build a pan-national terrorist organisation, and build one that is able to act. You can't do that if you are an unintelligent person.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Going to give up on this one...
because I do not personally know Bin Laden. My opinion, for whatever its worth, is that he is clever. Intelligent is as intelligent does or conversely, to quote a movie character, "stupid is as stupid does".

My hack analysis of his psyche puts him as a mercenary who's angry at his former boss. When the Soviet Union ceased, he was unemployed as were many other third world nations caught in the ideological struggle. All fifty cent euphemisms aside, the US and NATO really didn't give a shit about these "allies" when they were no longer convenient.

I'll give the best analogy I can think think of. A guy get's laid off and decides he's so pissed he's going to buy a gun. He goes back in to his old job and starts shooting his peers. Never does it seem that the CEO gets it. Why? If the guy really wanted to do any "good", he'd kill the dude that was responsible for his layoff. I don't even pretend to know the answer. I just find it interesting.

Unless you look at Bin Laden as perhaps a "Bluto" like character in Animal House (this calls for a really futile stupid gesture), what type of intelligence was Bin Laden showing other than callous military cunning. If you're impressed by him, you should really be impressed by the cunning the US military showed in taking Afghanistan in less time than it took the Soviets to mount an offensive. Afghanistan being probably the most quoted example in your book of a "wealthy nation being brought to heel".

I seriously digress. I found your posts in this thread thought provoking and excellent in content and basic logic. It just doesn't seem to flesh out with the basic reality, IMO.
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer


But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.


Y. Islam - Father and Son
     This needs to be taken to Flame Forum -NT - (Arkadiy) - (81)
         Rot in hell, you and your kind. - (Arkadiy) - (63)
             Blow me. - (mmoffitt) - (61)
                 Go blow up the rest of them excesses - (Arkadiy) - (60)
                     Endless applause. - (bepatient)
                     My kind of language? - (mmoffitt) - (57)
                         You insist on continuing ... - (bepatient) - (56)
                             You know, ... - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                 Oh sure I can... - (bepatient) - (7)
                                     At least the volume is coming down a little. - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                         None so blind as they can't see. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                             You got myopia? - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                 Chuckle. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                     Heh. You're just pretending to be thick, aren't you? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                         I know... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                             ICLRPD (new thread) - (Silverlock)
                             Taller in Toronto - (jake123) - (1)
                                 Nothing like that Canadian engineering ;-) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                             Actually speaker of the CN Tower indirectly... - (lister) - (41)
                                 Respectfully disagree. - (mmoffitt) - (40)
                                     Re: Respectfully disagree. - (lister) - (1)
                                         They did hit a low lying building. - (mmoffitt)
                                     Really? - (drewk) - (14)
                                         They weren't going for body count - (ben_tilly) - (13)
                                             Re: They weren't going for body count - (Nightowl)
                                             Dive-bombing is not easy with 737 - (Arkadiy) - (10)
                                                 They did it at the Pentagon - (ben_tilly) - (9)
                                                     Re: They did it at the Pentagon - (Nightowl)
                                                     If they really dive-bombed Pentagon - (Arkadiy) - (7)
                                                         Next to it?? - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                             Re: Next to it?? - (Nightowl) - (5)
                                                                 Check out the link Ben gave - (drewk) - (4)
                                                                     Re: Check out the link Ben gave - (Nightowl) - (2)
                                                                         Another set of links. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                             Re: Another set of links. - (Nightowl)
                                                                     more like emulating a torpedo attack from the air -NT - (boxley)
                                             Re: They weren't going for body count - (deSitter)
                                     Symbolism - (jake123) - (22)
                                         That may well be the best opinion I have heard. - (mmoffitt)
                                         You make the same mistake - (Arkadiy) - (18)
                                             Hmmm - an interesting dissection. - (Ashton)
                                             The mistake is yours - (jake123) - (16)
                                                 Applause! -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                 There you go again - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                     Strategically - (jake123)
                                                 Oh, and by the way - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                     Sure he could have - (jake123) - (1)
                                                         I am between you two on this. - (mmoffitt)
                                                 Projecting? - (screamer) - (9)
                                                     Read the history of guerilla conflicts - (jake123) - (1)
                                                         Going to give up on this one... - (screamer)
                                                     Are you forgetting Mogadishu, Somalia? - (a6l6e6x)
                                                     So then.. it's the PNAC Fundamentalists + Xian-Rightists - (Ashton) - (5)
                                                         Get over yourself, friend... - (screamer) - (4)
                                                             PS - (screamer) - (1)
                                                                 Who can resist?___"An Invitation to the Dance" - - (Ashton)
                                                             If I've offended you... - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                 Only once though... - (screamer)
                                         Eloquently summarized - (Ashton)
                                         It's a floor polish and a dessert topping! - (Another Scott)
                             Sorry Bill, Mike has a point - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                 Oh You Kid___:-\ufffd_____Love. It. -NT - (Ashton)
                                 ObPlug - (deSitter)
                     Tangential flame (new thread) - (drewk)
             kudos -NT - (deSitter)
         No grey areas (or matter) to see here...move along -NT - (FuManChu) - (2)
             Unless, of course, - (bepatient) - (1)
                 Fuck you too. -NT - (mmoffitt)
         It is possible to lament the deaths of *ALL* senseless - (Ashton) - (13)
             No. - (bepatient) - (11)
                 Fair point - sorta supposing.. - (Ashton) - (5)
                     Oh it is certain... - (bepatient) - (4)
                         You don't really know - you want to Believe - (Ashton) - (1)
                             Simplistic? - (bepatient)
                         Re: Oh it is certain... - (Nightowl) - (1)
                             Interesting comparison, Owl - (Ashton)
                 No. - (Nightowl)
                 Talking about Mecca - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                     Arkadiy___you be BAAD :-\ufffd -NT - (Ashton)
                     Re: pretty much justified from Mike's point of view... - (mmoffitt)
                 Hmm idea - (deSitter)
             re: bad moffitt. - (mmoffitt)

It’s an insidious time-gobbler.
160 ms