None so blind as they can't see.

Post #117,398 by bepatient 9/10/03 9:46:40 PM Reply	None so blind as they can't see. You might as well just admit to the underlying "we deserved it" inherent in the statement quoted from your first post. I started not to reply to this because it is pure horseshit. You're reaching here for a position you want to assign to me that I do not now, ever have nor ever will hold. You might not think you do. Perfectly understandable...because to realize this would be a painful blow to your psyche. But to say that thankfully that "the world now has two fewer of the more grotesque monuments to American Capitalist excess" is essentially, in my opinion, saying that we "egged them on" by building them in the first place. and to me its not that far of a logical leap from there to "we deserved it". The 19 assholes in question were Saudi. This is not a dirt poor (impoverished) nation. Its people may not share in the same level of success as we enjoy in ours...but why is this? Capitalism is reserved for the few "chosen" in Saudi. And while we may have our "chosen" here...the wealth is spread much further here. But this is somehow our fault. It is somehow our fault that instead of fighting their system to make it better for themselves and their people...they lash out and kill innocent people elsewhere....becasue it is the will of Allah that all westerners must die. Not for their riches...but because they do not recognize the will of Allah and must be punished for setting foot anywhere near the Holy Land. And again...you view them as "capitalist excess"...but by your standard...any advancement in any field that is a result of investment of american ingenuity and finances is also excess. So when they blow up Hoover Dam...its good because at least there's one less example of capitalist excess. Sorry...your attitude is sickening. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #117,466 by mmoffitt 9/11/03 9:55:57 AM Reply	You got myopia? It is somehow our fault that instead of fighting their system to make it better for themselves and their people...they lash out and kill innocent people elsewhere.... This might have a ring of truth if and only if the US was not responsible for the protection of the current Saudi regime. Or hadn't you noticed our bases there? ...but by your standard...any advancement in any field that is a result of investment of american ingenuity and finances is also excess. This is laughable on its face. What makes me proudest to be from this country is two guys from Dayton working in their bicycle shop who gave the world flight. Nothing, imho, is a greater gift for all of mankind. *Emphasis Mine.* So when they *blow up Hoover Dam*...its good because at least there's one less example of capitalist excess. Very bad example on your part. Hoover Dam was a Public Works Project. Sorry...your attitude is sickening. This is not surprising coming from you. I'd bet you think that asking ourselves why anyone in the world would hate us enough to commit suicide in an effort to kill what is in fact a smallish number of citizens when contrasted with how many die in autos and to (more importantly?) injure our pride and sense of invulnerability is a question not worth asking. 'Tis a pity. I am still hopeful that the horrible events of two years ago will cause more circumspection from the American people, useful idiots like yourself and Arkaidy notwithstanding. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #117,478 by bepatient 9/11/03 10:27:25 AM Reply	Chuckle. Bad examples? So only good examples of engineering marvel exist in public works? Private concern cannot stretch the boundaries? What makes you proudest is 2 bike builders building a plane? Damn...its a shame that they were allowed to make enough of a living to afford such frivoloties, isn't it? Damn shame about that capitalist excess, isn't it? Your position defies logic. Your reason for pride in this country is its ability to succeed and excel in many facets of science, engineering etc...and the basis for that ability is the system that you appear to find abhorrent in its drive to push boundaries. I >have< thought about what it is that makes them hate. The US is not operating in a global vaccuum...and the hate would be redirected (and up until recently was) at other targets. It wasn't a simple US push to the global economy. It is an eventuality of civilisation as has developed over thousands of years. We, unfortunately, have been more successful lately. And for that we get the lunatic fringe. And how easy it must make you to dismiss a brutal act of mass murder as to say "more people die in auto accidents". I'm sure that makes it comfortable to you. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #117,480 by mmoffitt 9/11/03 11:08:02 AM Reply	Heh. You're just pretending to be thick, aren't you? And how easy it must make you to dismiss a brutal act of mass murder as to say "more people die in auto accidents". I'm sure that makes it comfortable to you. That was to refute that the primary intention of attacking the WTC was to kill Americans. Ashton pointed this out much more elegantly than I am capable of. Look, I'm sorry my limited vocabulary excited a riot. As I said at the outset, that wasn't my intention. Ashton, as could be predicted, articulated what I try to say in what was now clearly far too few words. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #117,482 by bepatient 9/11/03 11:14:25 AM Reply	I know... ...you started with a poor choice of words. As long as you are aware of that...and the Forum heading...we should be >o...k< Ashton...articulate...hmmm...gonna have to chew on that for a while ;) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #117,486 by Silverlock 9/11/03 11:18:49 AM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #117485 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=117485\|ICLRPD] ----------------------------------------- It is much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why? Because it is easier to give someone the finger than it is to give them a helping hand. Mike Royko

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