You are still missing it

Post #276,133 by bepatient 12/19/06 11:04:08 AM Reply	You are still missing it and its a conditioned response by you...conditioned by what you have been taught by the software provider is what you >need< and what you "want". You should NOT pay MS as part of your PC purchase to Dell unless you WANT to...and that is not currently the case. Why should I have to go to WalMart to buy a PC when I want a DELL (I think the logo is cool...or whatever). I can't do that...and MS contract with Dell has incredible penalties that coerce DELL into never offering hardware with anything other than MS windows. I can pick different sound components, different video components, different monitors, and different software bundles...but I cannot pick an alternative OS..even though they exist in the market. WHY IS THAT? OS/2..to beat the dead horse...was technically superior to Windows at every level..but these coercive contracts killed it before it was born. Only IBM could offer OS/2 on its machines because they were the only ones big enough to beat down MS...and they could also afford a premium price in the market...because they had the vast majority of corporate business. (And I actually support those who say Apple should undbundle as well to allow HW manufaturers to amke machines. There was a short time where this happened...and prices for those machines fell dramatically...but I am digressing.) Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #276,137 by CRConrad 12/19/06 12:01:22 PM Reply	For values of "missing it" equal to "doesn't WANT to get it" How the fucking fuck could that shill be "missing" something, when it's been fucking SPELLED OUT TO IT so many times? That's not "missing it", that's NOT WANTING to get it. Which, funnily enough, is exactly the behaviour you'd expect of a SHILL. But nooo, Andrea Dear isn't a shill, oooh nooo she isn't... Yeah, right. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #276,139 by bepatient 12/19/06 12:17:14 PM Reply	I understand the mental block because it is one that is shared by many. The thought is that a pc is nothing without the OS and THE os is windows. That is a conditioned response..long since in place from the days of DOS. I don't equate that with being a shill..that is simply what MS has been feeding users from the very beginning. No choice is necessary, windows comes with, naturally. Brainwashing. The majority of the marketplace doesn't even KNOW their are other choices..choices that could work for them and at the same time save them money. My opinion is very plain...if, in order to compete, you have to give away your product..there is something fundamentally wrong in the market. The MS monopoly has become so pervasive that the market knows nothing else...and in this it is like the ATT of old. There are no alternatives, this is what you get. The difference is that ATT had infrastructure barriers. To compete you had to lay wire and build a network. Here..the solution is much simpler, there is not a huge barrier. The problem is and continues to be severe anticompetitive behavior of MS which dries up all funds to create commercial alternatives...forcing competitors to come from the generosity of others...and that generosity comes from the OSS community. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #276,151 by andread 12/19/06 4:09:42 PM Reply	Bunk I doubt there are many out there who haven't seen those PC and Mac ads on the tube The "people" have made their choices business has made its choices you guys just don't like them A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #276,158 by bepatient 12/19/06 5:53:03 PM Reply	Bullpucky Businesses OFTEN had to pay MS tax twice..buying machines pre-loaded and then paying MS for the priveledge of loading a corporate windows build over top. Name me one manager that would CHOOSE that? Consumers NEVER HAD A CHOICE. Its been that way for so long that they never even knew there was one to be made. Starting to think that maybe the shill tag is starting to fit. It has nothing to do with me liking or disliking the choice. There was never a choice offered to like or dislike. Read that. NEVER. You completely ignored the fact that I can order from a half dozen processors, 3 or 4 different sound architectures, a half dozen monitors, with or without camera, with or without modem, with or without wireless...but I still have no choice regarding the OS..even though there are alternatives. While I was giving you the benefit of the doubt to now...you've proven that you are 1) beholden to MS or 2) beyond rational thought. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #276,159 by boxley 12/19/06 5:59:16 PM Reply	horsekabobs I order dells and put redhat on them for the business, the boxes are pre-loaded with $MS. Thats is how we have to buy them. Do we like paying for windows? no. No choice since we want intel hardware with service contracts. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #276,222 by lincoln 12/20/06 2:46:56 PM Reply	Are you talking desktops or servers? Haven't been to their web site in years, but I've heard about them selling servers pre-loaded with RedHat on them. Don't know if there's a price differential between those units and ones with Windows on them. And I doubt that the invoice is detailed enough to show you what you're being billed for RedHat. lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com\|contact me]
Post #276,223 by Another Scott 12/20/06 3:05:24 PM Reply	Dell's schizophrenic regarding Linux. E.g. Dell Singapore lists [link\|http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/ap/topics/microsite/en/redhat?c=sg&l=en&s=bsd\|this] PowerEdge 1950 with RHEL installed. If you search for Linux at Dell.com you'll see a [link\|http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_390?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04\|Precision 390 Workstation] box with RHEL available, but if you go to Customize it, there doesn't seem to be any way to get anything other than Windows. It looks to me that one must have the patience of Job to get a consumer box with Linux from Dell. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #276,235 by Andrew Grygus 12/20/06 5:38:47 PM Reply	Last I heard - though that was a while back . . . . . they were not allowed to offer any other OS on any model that was available with Windows. If they offered Linux it had to be a different SKU (Stocking Unit) and Winodws could not be available for that model designation. That would make it imposible for them to offer Linux under customization, you'd have to know the model number (often not listed) for the Linux SKU. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #276,283 by andread 12/21/06 9:44:01 AM Reply	well, hear this [link\|http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=sc1435-min&s=bsd\|Dell server with choice of no o/s, 2 windows, 2 redhat or 2 suse] Hmmmm A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #276,285 by Andrew Grygus 12/21/06 9:48:27 AM Reply	Please note: S-E-R-V-E-R What have we been telling you all this time? Servers have DIFFERENT RULES. Just how damned thick is your skull - bone to the center? Do you actually comprehend anything you read? Show me a desktop SKU offering those choices. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #276,286 by andread 12/21/06 9:54:30 AM Reply	your words cited below . they were not allowed to offer any other OS on any model that was available with Windows Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #276,288 by pwhysall 12/21/06 10:24:25 AM 12/21/06 10:27:16 AM Reply	That's not what was said. Any configuration i.e. any SKU with Windows will not come with Linux and vikki verki. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|] Edited by pwhysall Dec. 21, 2006, 10:27:16 AM EST Expand All History
Post #276,290 by pwhysall 12/21/06 10:48:18 AM Reply	I can show you a desktop... ...sort of. It's a workstation. Dell will sell you Linux on a Precision workstation. Interestingly, I've been dinking around with the UK and US configurators for Precision workstations and they say they support RHEL, but they don't actually have it as a selectable option when building your machine. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #276,152 by andread 12/19/06 4:13:48 PM Reply	For values of "Chuckles" equal to "doesn't get it" there are 924 registered users here almost all of them are likely Linux and/or Mac users when they have a choice anyway what would the value to MS of having a shill here be? and, in general, don't you think that pointless name-calling adds nothing to a discussion A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #276,195 by CRConrad 12/20/06 3:44:30 AM Reply	Chuckling my cheeks off. My nether ones, that is -- I'm laughing my arse off at this idiocy: what would the value to MS of having a shill here be? You know, I really can't see that either. So, what the fuck ARE you doing here? (Can it really be JUST .sig-spamming that silly little radio thing?) and, in general, don't you think that pointless name-calling adds nothing to a discussion Of course, exactly my point! (So what's with the silly "Chuckles" crap, Dear?) My pointing out what you are, OTOH, isn't pointless at all: At long last, it seems I've been able to raise the general awareness of our fellow posters here. And knowing whom you're dealing with, that can never be a bad thing, wouldn't you say? Chuckles to you, [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #276,148 by andread 12/19/06 4:02:00 PM Reply	Re: You are still missing it I find your argument really ridiculous You can't buy a Dell w/o an OS I can't buy a Cadillac with square wheels big deal A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #276,160 by bepatient 12/19/06 5:59:53 PM Reply	I didn't give you a car analogy so don't mess around with it on me. The fact that MS has the power to put Dell out of business and can thus force them to offer NO CHOICE of OS, even while they offer multiple choices on EVERY OTHER ASPECT of the machine should tell you something...unless, of course, you are voluntarily ignoring the reality of the situation...which I now believe you are. ----- And the dealer is ALLOWED to swap rims on the car, by the way...without penalty from the manufacturer on all other cars sold. Not so for Dell. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #276,192 by Andrew Grygus 12/20/06 1:35:22 AM Reply	I think he's just trying to be annoying The issues are extremely clear - and we don't have to prove Microsoft has abused a monopoly, that was shown in court, upheld unanamously by the Court of Appeals en banc, and refused review by the Supreme Court. The current administration, in typical Republican worship of the extremely wealthy, allowed Microsoft to write it's own punishment. Interestingly they have not met the terms of the punishment they themselves wrote and the judge in charge has been getting a bit antsy. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]

Welcome to IWETHEY!