Post #273,062
11/12/06 7:07:02 PM
|
Post-election thoughts
Welcome to the new USofA, same as the old USofA.
Here are the things that come to mind on 11/9, when all the races are settled and the outcome is reached.
- The left crowd, kindly shut up about rigged elections and democracy being subverted in America. It takes more than four years of mismanagement and stupidity to get Mr. Citizen roaring up on his hind legs, but less than 8. Not as good as you wanted, but not as bad as you had us all believe.
- The decent people in Iraq who were naive enough to believe in us are dead. Messy dead, tortured to death or blown up with kids and spouses. Thank you, USofA, for another world-class betrayal. I do not care that we're not overly loved in Paris, but Saigon (oh, sorry, HoSheMingh City(sp?) and Baghdad and Courdistan really stick in my throat. That's another sin my country got on her soul. That's a sin on my soul.
- Strange as it may seem, I feel some relief, together with the bitterness.
The people I agreed with have even less say than before. The other side won the popularity contest. Well, show us what you got. Let's see how you, oh enlihgtend ones, are going to solve our problems. I'll just sit back and enjoy the show. Either they will bring Shari'a into my dear Stamford, or there will be a nuclear explosion in Manhattan one bright sunny morning. Or may be I am completely wrong, and a miracle will happen. It's out of my hands now.
This is what we get for having a two-party system. We started this Long War with the silver-spoon crew at the helm, the people who got themselves elected to preside over the biggest feeding through on Earth. As the Fate had it, those guys belonged to the party that nominally was supposed to be better prepared to fight the war. But the particular people we had had to be criminally inept, by the rules not unlike "survival of the fittest".
Well, that crew is, if not gone, then rendered powerless. For next two years we'll have a period of complete paralysis. Then the alternative crew will come in. They may not be so much feeding-oriented (by now even the stupidest most venal political SOB should realize that being a leader nowadays is a nasty job that does not pay enough). However, due to the trick of Fate described above, they belong to a party that thinks wars are a thing of the past, unbecoming civilized people. They will deny that we're at war for as long as they can. If our enemy is very stupid, something will happen that will make the denial impossible. If they are smart, they will start slowly wining the war we are not fighting.
My hope goes out to 10 years from now. By then, the leadership will still be obviously low-reward/high-risk occupation. And the Democrat crew that is now coming to the scene will have amply demonstrated that their approach (denial and tribute and retreat) does not work. That's when this country will produce the kind of leadership we need.
I conclude the same way I started. Democracy works slowly. Much slower than we want. But it works. Much faster than we fear. It will take years and it may take the blood of American civilians, but we will have the kind of leaders we need.
------
179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
|
Post #273,064
11/12/06 7:31:50 PM
|
I'm sad that you believe that
However, due to the trick of Fate described above, they belong to a party that thinks wars are a thing of the past, unbecoming civilized people. They will deny that we're at war for as long as they can. If our enemy is very stupid, something will happen that will make the denial impossible. If they are smart, they will start slowly wining the war we are not fighting.
...
And the Democrat crew that is now coming to the scene will have amply demonstrated that their approach (denial and tribute and retreat) does not work. Rather than a point-by-point rebuttal, I'll just present my view, which is completely incompatible with yours. We were attacked. The people who did it were mostly Saudi, and the non-Saudis who were involved were educated and trained by Saudis. They were mostly based out of Afghanistan, where we had supplied them for years as proxy warriors against the Soviets. Once the Soviets pulled out, we stopped supplying them, and they turned on us. Surprise! It's not like we haven't seen it before, with every other proxy we stopped supplying. So we went into Afghanistan, and everyone -- or close enough as to make no difference -- both here and worldwide supported us. And those who didn't support us at least understood. Then we went into Iraq. They had nothing to do with the attacks. We should never have gone in. But we wanted to "fight them there so we don't have to fight them here." In other words, we don't want any more attacks on U.S. soil, so we'll just piss them off and put targets up somewhere over there. Doesn't really matter where, we'll just pick a spot. And it worked. Anyone who wants to kill Americans finds it much easier to do in Iraq than it would be in the U.S. Congratulations, homeland secured. And after criminally inept (thanks for the admission) leadership, people have finally had enough of it. Pointing out that we picked a fight with the wrong people for no damn good reason, and that it's about time we stopped, is in no way the same as tribute. Yes, it's denial; it's denying that there's a goal to this war. Yes, it's retreat; it's pulling back from a war we shouldn't fight. So what should we do? Let these gegraphically dispersed people take shots at us from hiding and constantly react to them? Yes, that's exactly what we should do. Try to find out what they're planning and stop them, sure. But we can't just pick a spot and announce to the world, "Hey, anybody who wants to kill Americans, do it there instead." It's called being civilized. ===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #273,079
11/12/06 9:06:14 PM
|
You confirm all that I say
You don't think we are at war (or, if we are, we ought to be at war with Saidi Arabia?). You intend to sit there and be shot at. Indeed, that's what I was saying.
You do realize that our enemies intend to keep on shooting? Using better and better weapons as the time goes by. What do you have in mind to stop them? And when will enough be enough?
WRT war in Iraq: we picked up the right fight. While Hussein did not finance them, Democratic Iraq would be a blow to the Muslims that flew airplanes into our buildings. They hated Hussein for not being Muslim enough - how much more would they hate a real democratic government? And Hussein was ripe for smashing.
But we did not fight in the right way. Smashing Hussein had been the easy part. We could have done it in 91. It's what happened next that killed us. The way the Iraqi War was conducted is a huge disgrace on Bush and Co. I would call it a treason, but stupidity and hubris explains it better.
Was there a better way? Yes, certainly. Openly declare to the whole world what we are doing. Tell everyone who would listen that we're out to help those who like us and to hurt those that don't, no matter what the state of the relevant WMD programs. Start with Kurds, declare them an independent country, bribe Turks with the $300B we ended up spending anyway. Continue with Southern Shi'a, when they are ready. After 5 years of civil war in what's left of Saddam's country, move in and pick the pieces. After the success had been demonstrated for 10 years or so, look for other candidates. Lebanon and Palestinian territories come to mind. May be Syria would be ripe by then. Or Iran.
I am not saying that this is how it should have gone. My point is, we need to clean out the Middle East in some way. That place is the only wiper's nest with enough money to hurt us. We need a leader who will come up with the right way.
------
179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
|
Post #273,080
11/12/06 9:17:11 PM
|
so sunni's specifically salafi's from saudi attack us
and you want us to invade whom? listen the last two people breathing on the planet will have their hands on each others throats on a hilltop in jerusalem and you want us to get involved in that? No fucking way.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #273,104
11/13/06 12:05:54 AM
|
You make me a bit sad...
that clueless totalitarian Russians have been added to our clueless totalitarian native-born mix.
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
|
Post #274,593
12/2/06 10:18:44 AM
|
Tough.
Go find yourself a better mix, then.
------
179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
|
Post #274,649
12/3/06 4:38:37 AM
|
Nice.
"Love it or leave it" is stupid enough from natives; from someone like you, it's the height of arrogance.
If you can't see *that* -- and if that doesn't give you even a *hint* that the rest of your opinions, stemming as they do from a mind that could come up with that, are slightly askance from reality -- then you truly are blind and deaf.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
|
Post #274,678
12/3/06 2:20:12 PM
|
Hey, "love it " is not an option, apparently
The options are to change the contents of the mix, change self, go find a new mix, or suffer. Which one is more realistic?
------
179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
|
Post #274,786
12/4/06 2:57:37 PM
|
Suffering
I suspect there's a lot of it coming down the pipe for the US.
|
Post #273,106
11/13/06 12:16:10 AM
|
Re: You confirm all that I say
You don't think we are at war (or, if we are, we ought to be at war with Saidi Arabia?). We are not at war. And trying to fight this as if it was a war is part of the problem. Broad social movements can not be defeated by armies, short of outright genocide. Terrorism is a criminal problem and should be treated as such. Doing anything else is giving in to the terrorist. But we did not fight in the right way. Smashing Hussein had been the easy part. We could have done it in 91. It's what happened next that killed us. The way the Iraqi War was conducted is a huge disgrace on Bush and Co. I would call it a treason, but stupidity and hubris explains it better.
Was there a better way? Yes, certainly. Openly declare to the whole world what we are doing. Tell everyone who would listen that we're out to help those who like us and to hurt those that don't, no matter what the state of the relevant WMD programs. In the long run that won't help either, just leave us with another set of problems. Just supporting countries that support us will create a bunch more Egypts and Uzbekistans. Countries where the ruling powers support us, but a big chunk of the underclass hates us. Taking the long view, what we really should be doing is supporting real democratic governments, even if the current government doesn't like us. Get them engaged in the global commerce system. Help them raise their standard of living. None of these things will directly stop the problem, but they will reduce the forces that support and create terrorists. Think of it as social dampening rods. Jay
|
Post #273,117
11/13/06 1:53:13 AM
|
It's very, very simple.
We have no legitimate business in Iraq.
Saddam Hussein was a murderous bastard, true.
But then we haven't invaded Zimbabwe, or Myanmar, or Indonesia, or North Korea, or Syria, or Turkmenistan, or Saudi Arabia or any of the other sovereign nations headed up by murderous bastards who finance international terrorism and who have a penchant for torture.
All the military effort in Iraq would have been better spent finishing the job in Afghanistan.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
|
Post #273,125
11/13/06 7:32:46 AM
11/13/06 7:33:47 AM
|
I disagree
WRT war in Iraq: we picked up the right fight. While Hussein did not finance them, Democratic Iraq would be a blow to the Muslims that flew airplanes into our buildings. They hated Hussein for not being Muslim enough - how much more would they hate a real democratic government? And Hussein was ripe for smashing. I disagree. Sure, we could destroy Hussein easily enough. Sure, a democratic Iraq would be just desserts for the Muslims. But did ANYONE ask the Iraqies if they WANTED a Democracy? You're no better than Hussein was. The entire concept of Democracy is SELF-RULE. We don't go into a country to "free" them. Sigh. Ultimately, we've been fighting yester-years war too. We going in with tanks and planes and enough troops that scream target. "Come hit me, I'm right here." But does this kill our enemies? We could've responded in Afganistan, with a wall of tanks moving from one side of the country to the other, and I would've supported it. But the real fight - is the fight no one is going to see. There are no tanks. There are no planes. There are small handguns, knives. Death in the middle of the night. That's the war we need to fight. By going over there, infiltrating terror cells...and at the right time, killing them one by one. I don't expect the Democrats to fix that, btw. That's all Executive Branch.
|
Post #273,230
11/13/06 11:24:33 PM
|
Even if everything you say were indeed confirmed...
...I'd prefer it to anything neocon. Retreat, tribute and whatever other bullshit you just spouted is better than endless, pointless conflict (not "war", we are not at war because there has been no goddam declaration of war by the Congress -- you claim to be such an Amerikan; you'd think you'd have learned just a smidgeon about the Constitution you so jingoistically claim to support).
jb4
"When the final history is written in Iraq, [link|http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tmate/2006/tmate060926.gif|it'll look just like a comma.]"
— George W. Bush, 24 Sep 06
|
Post #274,592
12/2/06 10:16:48 AM
|
We're refusing to admit we're at war
Our enemies proclaimed they are at war with us many, many times. It takes two to have a war. Does it take two to have peace?
------
179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
|
Post #274,596
12/2/06 10:30:10 AM
|
only one to make peace, 2 can declare a truce at best
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #274,679
12/3/06 2:20:55 PM
|
Yep, the only one still standing :) :(
------
179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]
|
Post #274,689
12/3/06 4:31:39 PM
|
The only "war" we're at is the "was on drugs"
How well are we doing on that front?!?
jb4
"When the final history is written in Iraq, [link|http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tmate/2006/tmate060926.gif|it'll look just like a comma.]"
— George W. Bush, 24 Sep 06
|
Post #274,691
12/3/06 4:48:07 PM
|
Don't forget the War on Christmas.
[link|http://www.wikiality.com/War_On_Christmas|War On Christmas].
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #274,692
12/3/06 4:52:25 PM
|
Wasn't that won by Wal-Mart?
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #274,696
12/3/06 5:47:44 PM
|
And don't forget the General:
[link|http://www.wikiality.com/Anti-Claus|The Anti-Claus].
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #273,071
11/12/06 8:07:50 PM
|
you havnt been here long enough
the body politic is in perfect balance, they can froth at the mouth all they want but gridlock is good for the country. They cant run roughshod all over us by rubber stamping every feel good item the president and the dark lord want.
Americans are used to dying for useless causes. However if a nuke goes off here, there will be a smouldering crater everywhere they have pissed us off. That may help or may not. As far as sharia in conecticut thats what the south is for, grim men with guns fighting for their country.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #273,081
11/12/06 9:18:42 PM
|
Are you forgetting your Karl Marx? :)
The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent them. Some of what he says is actually true. The government is controlled by the corporations and by extension those that run them. It's their "contributions" that are the major fuel for the political process. To the degree one side or another was favored with the contributions, some corporations will benefit and some will suffer in the years to come. W will discover there is such a thing as a veto and use it to limit damage to his friends. Also, the Democratic control, while real, is not that strong. The way that the Senate works, Republicans can stop any legislation they care to stop. It may not look pretty, but they can do it. The Democrats can try to pass a collection of reasonable legislation or piss away their control accomplishing nothing but embarrassing the administration (i.e. exposing their idiocies and incompetence) in preparation for '08. I hope they don't waste the next two years that way. But, for a change, the administration will get some Congressional oversight! I'm with Drew on Iraq. Whether W got us into it to prove his father wrong, or to avenge the assassination attempt on his father, or was duped in trying to make the Middle East safe for Israel, it was a mistake! It had nothing to do with the war on terror against the US. But, given that the US got into Iraq, it was totally mismanaged. Tactics and the maximum force that still ensures failure. That had to change, and change it will. I don't see Iraq being totally abandoned by the US as you do. There will be a lengthy transition. Heck, Iraqis that have the means are abandoning Iraq. Besides, when did you start caring about Arabs? :) I love a divided government! Alex
When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
|
Post #273,094
11/12/06 10:30:48 PM
|
Don't be so pessimistic.
You're covering a lot of topics, and I can agree with some of your thoughts (like our representatives aren't paid enough). But you're buying too many of the cartoon arguments put forward by too many on the right. I can't think of any responsible Senator or Representative that wants us to lose in Iraq.
I thought there were good reasons for going after Saddam in 2003, as can be seen by checking the Search (e.g. [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/board/search/?field_searchUser=49&field_searchSubject=&field_searchContent=saddam&field_searchSignature=&field_searchForum=-1&field_boardid=1&submit_ok%3Amethod=Search&start=67|generally], or [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=81307|specifically]), but the execution of the occupation can hardly be called anything more positive than incompetent. What makes the screw-ups worse is that the Administration refused to change tactics when it was clear that too few soldiers were on the ground to pacify the country. Something's got to change if we are to have any hope of achieving a reasonable outcome.
We have 2 choices now: 1) Substantially increase force levels to pacify the country; 2) Leave in an orderly fashion, sooner rather than later. Being an occupying force with too little strength to keep the peace does nothing but embolden those who want increased violence. Since there's little sign in Washington of #1 being seriously considered, the default choice is #2. Choice #3 - "Stay the Course" - has been tried for over 3 years now and isn't achieving our goals.
As a child I remember seeing the evening news reports about Viet Nam (as it was spelled in those days) and wondering: Why aren't we winning? How long is this going to go on? Am I going to have to fight there too? I don't think I need to tell you that there are getting to be too many parallels to those days.
Recognizing that #2 is the only choice on the table doesn't mean that it's the same as "denial and tribute and retreat".
If you don't think that #2 is the only choice on the table, what do you propose?
It's hard to say that the Iraq war has been a success when we've achieved 2 of the [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=95855|8 goals Rumsfeld laid out].
How would you feel if Al Gore had been president the last ~6 years and the same things had happened? Would you accept a "stay the course" plan from Albert? Why accept it - and the accompanying rhetoric - from George? Why accept the arguments of a group that you call "criminally inept"?
Watch their deeds, not their rhetoric.
I expect that some things will get done in the next 2 years. But we'll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #273,097
11/12/06 10:47:20 PM
|
#2
Unless you want to solidify our position as "the Great Satan" for all of eternity in the region. #2 is simply NOT an option. It is expected, though..so we would be making many people's dreams come true...the most notably being some guy named Osama.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
|
Post #273,100
11/12/06 11:01:28 PM
|
400k soldiers ripping out everything that goes boom
larger than a 7.65m round and killing anyone who needs it, six months 150K dead by us 4k dead of us and a fighting chance of Iraq making itself a country. 2 is fine with me.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #273,175
11/13/06 3:38:57 PM
|
You may have his genes, but Genghis is (properly) Dead.
|
Post #273,234
11/13/06 11:38:53 PM
|
You can't?
I can't think of any responsible Senator or Representative that wants us to lose in Iraq. Really? You're not asking the right people. [link|http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15488330/page/5/|Just ask Liddy Dole...] SEN. DOLE: Let me, let me talk about David Fromme, who is one of the people in the article, and his concern about the way it was publicized, the press release. David Fromme\ufffds bottom line is, the war, just as the same\ufffdthe same as in 203--2003, the war was right, we need to win the war and it would be disastrous to lose. That\ufffds his bottom line. That\ufffds, that\ufffds what he\ufffds concerned about. And you know, it\ufffds almost as if the Democrats, you know, it\ufffds like they\ufffdre content with losing because to pull out, to withdraw from this war is losing. No question about it. [Emphasis added] You're just not asking the right people, Another Scott.... jb4
"When the final history is written in Iraq, [link|http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tmate/2006/tmate060926.gif|it'll look just like a comma.]"
— George W. Bush, 24 Sep 06
|
Post #273,189
11/13/06 6:26:02 PM
8/21/07 12:46:05 PM
|
War? Jeeze - we make all our own enemies
Every single attack we're getting is something we earned through the laws of unintended consequences.
Most of our enemies were manufactured by our own CIA trying to play puppet master.
Iran? Who TF was the Shah? Our puppet. Saudis? We sold out the Saudi people for oil - propping up a backwards kingdom. Bin Laden was trained by us in Afghanistan. Saddam was our puppet too for awhile.
All that fucking James Bond shit we tried to play during the cold war is coming back to haunt us and we still haven't learned that propping up the enemies of our enemies is bad policy. I mean, christ, Ollie North was just in Nicaragua campaingning against Ortega. Have we learned [link|http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Nicaragua_KH.html|nothing]?
We're at war? Maybe we are but we started it and we can bloody well end it without blowing up every blessed thing that moves. There's a lot to atone for. Nothing succeeds like success, but we have to learn to compete. The US is to world politics as Microsoft is to the software industry, and in both cases the chickens are coming home to roost.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #273,225
11/13/06 11:05:24 PM
|
Well stated.
Arkadiy,
I have dropped out of the body politics in this country long ago, but reading your post made me think how very sad this whole flipping mess we call politics is for someone such as yourself. As a Russian linguist, and a Russian undergraduate major (read Gogol, Dostoevsky, Lermontov, and the Soviet authors, films, etc), I was told that what separated us Americans from you lowly Soviet scum was that we had freedom of speech and democracy (to wit, both lies). Our country heavily encouraged you heathen Russians (and especially the Eastern Block countries) that if only you would come out of the dark ages, breath the air of American freedom, that it would set the ball rolling and collapse your communist, nihilist, worthless lives. You fuc*?d up. You believed us! Just like the Africans and Pakistani and Iraqi... Cut and run. You bet your ass. Hell, if we find it politically convenient, we won't even count you as part of a coalition when you try to stand beside us when we do something foolish.
And this group of Pollyannaish, history illiterate, "idealists" will act surprised when they aren't able to use rhetoric to deter or negotiate a settled peace with homicidal maniacs. The problem, as I see it, is not whether the Red or Blue team is on the field, it is the philosophy of the game that they are carrying. NEITHER understands beyond the myopic "ugly American" world view. Sorry, once again you are seeing the ugly underbelly that we fought for so long to hide.
;-)
I have to say that you are spot on in most respects. The Red party lost this time to Blues posing as Reds. Yeah team! You well understand the true Red party as well (nudge nudge wink wink say no more). Have you noticed how no one on this board has mentioned the geographical significance of a military presence in the region? Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union, the balance of power in places that your former country kept in check is now FUBAR. Again, other than Todd, not one mention of the enemies that we created by our "ugly American" mostly Red party foreign policies. Not that it matters much though, since not one of us (starred on non-starred sneeches) is likely to give up the luxuries we take for granted in order to truly "better the world" for the poor unfortunate populations that ACTUALLY LIVE UNDER TRUE DICTATORSHIPS AND ARE STARVING TO DEATH - not hungry, but starving to death. But we'll be glad to better the rhetoric. That's what we're all about...
Did I mention that I hate election years?
Arkadiy, in all seriousness, my friend, the Pentagon is not "elected". Nor is the FBI or the CIA, nor the military. There is true continuity and they will do whatever is necessary to perpetuate the United States of America (which is completely discreet from any individual or other group). This empire will fall too - history dictates as much. But I feel it a relatively safe bet that our children will not live to see Armageddon or the fall of this country. Looking at the Roman democracy (or the "real" British Empire), they had their ups and downs.
Religious and ethnic wars have raged on throughout recorded history. It didn't matter what Socrates or Aristotle "thought" about it in ancient Greece (we probably wouldn't even know about those old dead Greek dudes if it wasn't for Alexander - a conqueror) - peace is merely a respite between wars. This to me is not pessimistic, nihilistic or any other such negative connotation. It is as probable as that the sun will appear in the east tomorrow morning based on observation. Please don't be disillusioned by the political "process", just be disgusted with the results...
Just a few thoughts,
Danno
|
Post #273,323
11/15/06 1:53:22 AM
|
Condescend much?
And this group of Pollyannaish, history illiterate, "idealists" will act surprised when they aren't able to use rhetoric to deter or negotiate a settled peace with homicidal maniacs. Because anyone who disagrees with you must be completely ignorant of the undeniable facts on which you base your unassailable conclusion. Or maybe, we just think you're wrong. Or (longer form) we think you're wrong and no one suggested a settled peace with homicidal maniacs, but rather stop standing in front of the homicidal maniacs and stop blowing up their neighborhoods and families. Again, other than Todd, not one mention of the enemies that we created by our "ugly American" mostly Red party foreign policies. I guess you missed where I wrote (although it's hard to see how, as it was the [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=273064|second post in this thread]): They were mostly based out of Afghanistan, where we had supplied them for years as proxy warriors against the Soviets. Once the Soviets pulled out, we stopped supplying them, and they turned on us. Surprise! It's not like we haven't seen it before, with every other proxy we stopped supplying. Yup, just little old history illiterate me, clearly making the point that you say no one (except Todd) had mentioned. ===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
