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New Well stated.
Arkadiy,
I have dropped out of the body politics in this country long ago, but reading your post made me think how very sad this whole flipping mess we call politics is for someone such as yourself. As a Russian linguist, and a Russian undergraduate major (read Gogol, Dostoevsky, Lermontov, and the Soviet authors, films, etc), I was told that what separated us Americans from you lowly Soviet scum was that we had freedom of speech and democracy (to wit, both lies). Our country heavily encouraged you heathen Russians (and especially the Eastern Block countries) that if only you would come out of the dark ages, breath the air of American freedom, that it would set the ball rolling and collapse your communist, nihilist, worthless lives. You fuc*?d up. You believed us! Just like the Africans and Pakistani and Iraqi... Cut and run. You bet your ass. Hell, if we find it politically convenient, we won't even count you as part of a coalition when you try to stand beside us when we do something foolish.

And this group of Pollyannaish, history illiterate, "idealists" will act surprised when they aren't able to use rhetoric to deter or negotiate a settled peace with homicidal maniacs. The problem, as I see it, is not whether the Red or Blue team is on the field, it is the philosophy of the game that they are carrying. NEITHER understands beyond the myopic "ugly American" world view. Sorry, once again you are seeing the ugly underbelly that we fought for so long to hide.
;-)

I have to say that you are spot on in most respects. The Red party lost this time to Blues posing as Reds. Yeah team! You well understand the true Red party as well (nudge nudge wink wink say no more). Have you noticed how no one on this board has mentioned the geographical significance of a military presence in the region? Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union, the balance of power in places that your former country kept in check is now FUBAR. Again, other than Todd, not one mention of the enemies that we created by our "ugly American" mostly Red party foreign policies. Not that it matters much though, since not one of us (starred on non-starred sneeches) is likely to give up the luxuries we take for granted in order to truly "better the world" for the poor unfortunate populations that ACTUALLY LIVE UNDER TRUE DICTATORSHIPS AND ARE STARVING TO DEATH - not hungry, but starving to death. But we'll be glad to better the rhetoric. That's what we're all about...

Did I mention that I hate election years?

Arkadiy, in all seriousness, my friend, the Pentagon is not "elected". Nor is the FBI or the CIA, nor the military. There is true continuity and they will do whatever is necessary to perpetuate the United States of America (which is completely discreet from any individual or other group). This empire will fall too - history dictates as much. But I feel it a relatively safe bet that our children will not live to see Armageddon or the fall of this country. Looking at the Roman democracy (or the "real" British Empire), they had their ups and downs.

Religious and ethnic wars have raged on throughout recorded history. It didn't matter what Socrates or Aristotle "thought" about it in ancient Greece (we probably wouldn't even know about those old dead Greek dudes if it wasn't for Alexander - a conqueror) - peace is merely a respite between wars. This to me is not pessimistic, nihilistic or any other such negative connotation. It is as probable as that the sun will appear in the east tomorrow morning based on observation. Please don't be disillusioned by the political "process", just be disgusted with the results...
Just a few thoughts,

Danno
New Condescend much?
And this group of Pollyannaish, history illiterate, "idealists" will act surprised when they aren't able to use rhetoric to deter or negotiate a settled peace with homicidal maniacs.
Because anyone who disagrees with you must be completely ignorant of the undeniable facts on which you base your unassailable conclusion.

Or maybe, we just think you're wrong.

Or (longer form) we think you're wrong and no one suggested a settled peace with homicidal maniacs, but rather stop standing in front of the homicidal maniacs and stop blowing up their neighborhoods and families.

Again, other than Todd, not one mention of the enemies that we created by our "ugly American" mostly Red party foreign policies.
I guess you missed where I wrote (although it's hard to see how, as it was the [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=273064|second post in this thread]):
They were mostly based out of Afghanistan, where we had supplied them for years as proxy warriors against the Soviets. Once the Soviets pulled out, we stopped supplying them, and they turned on us. Surprise! It's not like we haven't seen it before, with every other proxy we stopped supplying.
Yup, just little old history illiterate me, clearly making the point that you say no one (except Todd) had mentioned.
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
     Post-election thoughts - (Arkadiy) - (29)
         I'm sad that you believe that - (drewk) - (18)
             You confirm all that I say - (Arkadiy) - (17)
                 so sunni's specifically salafi's from saudi attack us - (boxley)
                 You make me a bit sad... - (rcareaga) - (4)
                     Tough. - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                         Nice. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                             Hey, "love it " is not an option, apparently - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                 Suffering - (jake123)
                 Re: You confirm all that I say - (JayMehaffey)
                 It's very, very simple. - (pwhysall)
                 I disagree - (Simon_Jester)
                 Even if everything you say were indeed confirmed... - (jb4) - (7)
                     We're refusing to admit we're at war - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                         only one to make peace, 2 can declare a truce at best -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                             Yep, the only one still standing :) :( -NT - (Arkadiy)
                         The only "war" we're at is the "was on drugs" - (jb4) - (3)
                             Don't forget the War on Christmas. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                 Wasn't that won by Wal-Mart? -NT - (Andrew Grygus)
                                 And don't forget the General: - (admin)
         you havnt been here long enough - (boxley)
         Are you forgetting your Karl Marx? :) - (a6l6e6x)
         Don't be so pessimistic. - (Another Scott) - (4)
             #2 - (bepatient) - (2)
                 400k soldiers ripping out everything that goes boom - (boxley) - (1)
                     You may have his genes, but Genghis is (properly) Dead. -NT - (Ashton)
             You can't? - (jb4)
         War? Jeeze - we make all our own enemies - (tuberculosis)
         Well stated. - (danreck) - (1)
             Condescend much? - (drewk)

How?
83 ms