Toyota doesn't outsource much

Post #243,131 by tonytib 2/1/06 11:49:29 AM Reply	Toyota doesn't outsource much e.g. while GM and Ford were expanding outsoucing, Toyota has kept much more of the production in house, even though Toyota pays its workers substantially more (about double IIRC) than a typical tier one supplier does. But, they make up the difference with improved manufacturing techniques (the Autoweek article gave some specifics). I suspect Toyota gets better quality that way, too. OTOH, both Toyota and Honda need to hire some good designers; their cars range from boring to ugly (with a couple exceptions). At least Toyota seems to be trying (e.g. new IS350 is much improved over old IS300). --Tony
Post #243,180 by ben_tilly 2/1/06 8:42:00 PM Reply	Their designers are plenty good for me I don't care what it looks like on the outside. I care that it doesn't break down on the inside. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,188 by Silverlock 2/1/06 9:34:08 PM Reply	If I still drove, I would second that. Why not, I'll do so anyway. Seconded. ----------------------------------------- NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice, and certainly without probable cause. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of the current President. -Put it on all your emails
Post #243,205 by gdaustin 2/1/06 11:42:50 PM Reply	Quality vs. Cheap Price I'm just sick of the "Race to the Bottom" WalMart mentality. In fact, my wife doesn't even shop there anymore, chosing Target instead. I would rather pay a few pennies more per product and get better quality and quantity. In terms of cost, when we take the time to build the right product, the right software, the right solution, it actually costs less in later support. When will it end? When we stop shopping at Wal Mart. Glen
Post #243,213 by Meerkat 2/2/06 1:54:16 AM Reply	Ah, so it's YOUR fault the Toyota Camry exists! :-) Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #243,311 by ben_tilly 2/2/06 7:05:04 PM Reply	Not mine alone You don't become the most popular car in America because just one person likes you. It may well be that a lot of people think like I do though. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,312 by tonytib 2/2/06 7:59:51 PM Reply	Camry isn't ugly, just generic BTW, the 2007 Camry is re-styled and has, they claim, a better interior. Judge for yourself at [link\|http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_detroit/toyota/camry/pages/01.htm\|http://www.autoweek....amry/pages/01.htm] More car design talk [link\|http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/FREE/60119002/1051\|http://www.autoweek....REE/60119002/1051] If I were in the market for a new car now, I think I'd prefer the Mazda 6 hatchback over the Camry (unlike most Americans, I love hatchbacks, and the Mazda 6 is a pretty nice looking one). --Tony
Post #243,389 by Meerkat 2/3/06 8:20:34 PM Reply	If you get a Mazda6, get the MPS. It still looks a bit nanna, but 0-100km/h in 6.6 seconds isn't to be sneezed at. The all-wheel drive can't hurt either. Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #243,390 by ben_tilly 2/3/06 8:31:16 PM Reply	I'll believe it after I sit in it You'd be amazed at how many cars do not comfortably sit a 6'3" person behind the steering wheel. A Camry is comfortable. Amazingly enough, the Corolla is almost comfortable. By contrast sitting in my co-worker's BMW sucks. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,393 by boxley 2/3/06 10:54:42 PM Reply	sentra would be okay but my rio would be a chore Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #243,397 by pwhysall 2/3/06 11:41:39 PM Reply	It's all about the seats. Fords are usually OK, with the exception of the Fuckus. Most Jap econoboxes are also OK. Volvos, Saabs and the like can be made accommodating, and I've never had a problem in a German car (I drive a BMW - a compact, no less!). But I need to tilt the seat. If I can't do that, Mr Comfy Driving Position isn't going to happen. If I can do that, I can get comfy in almost anything. At six three, you're really only going to struggle in a roadster, such as an MX-5 or an Elise. I'm a bit taller than you, Ben, and I can get settled behind the wheel of just about anything, as long as I can tilt the seat. Reach/rake adjustment on the wheel is also nice, but hardly essential (unless you have truly freakish legs). Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #243,402 by broomberg 2/4/06 1:04:45 AM Reply	Just spent today as a passenger in a Lexus Very nice.
Post #243,411 by Another Scott 2/4/06 10:52:47 AM Reply	My Dad bought an LS 430. He's the one who is very sensitive to noise. He wanted as quiet a car as possible. The LS 430 is pretty nice, but I have to agree with [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901017.html\|Warren] that it's not as far ahead of the competition as one would think. They're resting on their laurels a bit too much, IMO. Cheers, Scott. (Who has only ridden in it, in the back, a couple of times.)
Post #243,418 by broomberg 2/4/06 11:33:34 AM Reply	I was in the front seat I considered offering the other passenger to swap on the ride back - 1.5 hour trip. But being the selfish bastard that I am, I thought better of it. On the other hand, the second he got it (he was behind me), I moved my seat up as far as possible to make sure he had enough leg room. He is both taller and wider than me, by far, and he did not complain about the seating. Might be the back seat is better for him due to his width. Note: Part of out trip was to Cabela's: [link\|http://www.cabelas.com/\|http://www.cabelas.com/] This place is AMAZING. Combination sports outfitter, tourist gift shop, natural history museum, gun museum, aquarium, and restaurant. One of our print plants is across the street from it.
Post #243,468 by ben_tilly 2/4/06 11:49:13 PM Reply	Toyota works without tilting the seat I didn't find an option to tilt the seat on my co-worker's BMW. Besides you may be taller than me, but not by very much. Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,476 by broomberg 2/5/06 9:42:06 AM Reply	I tilt the seat in everything I can. Legs up, back back. I drive / ride as if I was in a rocket ship. And I'm only 5'7".
Post #243,498 by CRConrad 2/5/06 4:18:04 PM Reply	You're probably a lethal danger to everyone else on the road Sit up straight like your mother taught you, and you might: A) Be able to see something beyond the bonnet ("hood") and the A-pillars (i.e, the posts to each side of the windscreen ["windshield"]). B) Have leverage to use your arms more decisively, thus be able to turn the wheel quicker and farther in an emergeny. C) Be less likely to fall asleep behind the wheel. But, hey, if lying down comfortably is more important to you than being a responsible driver, then by all means carry on. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #243,499 by broomberg 2/5/06 4:20:06 PM Reply	Maybe The only IWeTheyer that has driven with me was Ben. Hey Ben, any comments?
Post #243,555 by ben_tilly 2/6/06 2:31:37 AM Reply	Your driving was surprisingly sane I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,501 by Another Scott 2/5/06 4:27:58 PM Reply	You'd have a coronary seeing Chicago drivers. (Caveat - this was in the early 1980s.) The "coolest" drivers lean back and to the right (toward the passenger). Their eyes just barely clear the dash. It's important to be nearly invisible. Or something. Cheers, Scott. (Who doesn't drive that way.)
Post #243,665 by jb4 2/6/06 6:03:13 PM Reply	What was old is new again... You got it pegged, Scott. jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #245,370 by lincoln 2/19/06 12:06:22 AM Reply	those are only the "South Siders" and I don't mean the "South Side Irish" if you know what I mean... lincoln "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem. I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *Citizen* of the United States. [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #245,531 by jb4 2/20/06 1:51:40 PM Reply	What about Pilsen, Little Village, Logan Square... ...Humbolt Park, and even Uptown? jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #243,531 by boxley 2/5/06 10:55:35 PM Reply	you are short torso, he is longish meaning centering in the seat is easier for him than yo\ufffd. Your legs appeared (thru beer bottle lenses) to be considerably longer than his. hth bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #243,556 by ben_tilly 2/6/06 2:41:37 AM Reply	Thank you for figuring out why I have more of a problem I think you're exactly right. An amusing comparison. I'm 6'3". My wife is about 5'6". Our legs are almost exactly the same length! My problem in a BMW is that my head is crunched against the ceiling. If my torso is longer, that would explain why it is an issue for me but not for him. The next problem that I get into is that leaning my seat back to get some head room won't work unless I scoot the seat forward so that my arms reach the steering wheel. At this point my knees wind up hitting the steering wheel. (Assuming that I could get enough lean/scoot to make it work at all.) It is ironic that having proportionately shorter legs make knees hitting the steering wheel a big problem for me, but that's what happens. I'm fine in Toyotas. (Though I wind up appreciating the fact that in California we scatter lights around so that there is almost always one that's fairly low that I can stare at. The traditional single light in the middle of the intersection is not in view unless I lean forward.) I'm fine in most mid-sized and bigger cars. I'm emphatically not fine in my co-worker's BMW. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,206 by gdaustin 2/1/06 11:59:19 PM Reply	Honda Already Has - IMO Here's what we bought last Spring. Not your boring old Honda CR-V. Ours is stylin'. [link\|http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=CR%2DV\|2006 Honda CR-V] And I like the Interior even better. Glen
Post #243,281 by tonytib 2/2/06 2:16:39 PM Reply	It's still ugly although a bit better IMNSHO. Although nothing else in their lineup compares to the Ridgeline for fuglyness (heck, it's worse than the original Chevy Avalanche, although not quite in the category of the Aztek or Fiat Multipla), not even the Element. Honda also doesn't like more cylinders, e.g. even Toyota is sticking a V-6 in their cute-ute, Acura doesn't have any V-6's, and the Ridgeline is V-6 only. Toyota will soon become the world's largest car maker. If they can get their styling act together, they'll be really really scary...to their competitors. (I'm not a Toyota fan, either; I've got an old but trusty Nissan and a new but so far very good Mazda.) --Tony
Post #243,288 by CRConrad 2/2/06 3:48:36 PM Reply	Being a Yank, you are allowed to be wrong on these things. Luckily, 'coz being a Yank, you are of course bound to be wrong on matters aestethic. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #243,292 by tonytib 2/2/06 4:04:54 PM Reply	Right, I'm not an arrogant euro-weenie but I appreciate good style, wherever it comes from. In cars, the Euros do some very nice stuff (especially at the high end, with exceptions such as the Porsche Cayenne), but they also do some of the ugliest cars in the world, such as the Multipla. --Tony
Post #243,294 by Steve Lowe 2/2/06 4:12:06 PM Reply	ICLRPD: Right, I'm not an arrogant euro-weenie (new thread) Created as new thread #243293 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=243293\|ICLRPD: Right, I'm not an arrogant euro-weenie] -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #243,300 by boxley 2/2/06 5:43:42 PM Reply	coming from a bloody finn! what cheek! [link\|http://www.finnishdesign.fi/muotoilija?id=965916\|http://www.finnishde...toilija?id=965916] so you lot are responsible for the giant lego thing's for shame, sing 10 choruses of the monty python finland song. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #243,301 by pwhysall 2/2/06 5:46:56 PM Reply	Finn my arse. He's a misplaced kraut. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #243,303 by jb4 2/2/06 5:57:49 PM Reply	Is that "misplaced" as in "lost"? Because no one would "find" themselves in Finland (except perhaps for the 2 months and three weeks when the sun is above the horizon...). jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration

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