Post #209,976
6/5/05 11:20:26 PM
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It looks like I can trust it (is LoJack worthwhile?)
They switched cars, but the price remains the same. If I did it yesterday I would have a slightly nicer car for the price, but the difference isn't big. (I'm still well below what Consumer Reports suggests starting negotiating at.)
I have the contract in hand. The price on a new 2005 Toyota Camry (not a dealer model) didn't include taxes. Up front it is $16819 minus a $1000 rebate, so $15819, plus taxes and fees. 8.25% sales tax, 1.75% licensing fees. Those are by law. (This matches what other buyers have told me.) A $273 optional service contract snuck in there, will ask about that. There is a $45 document preparation fee. There is a prepay penalty of $75 if I do it fast. (Which I will.)
Final price with those fees if I don't get LoJack, with taxes and prepayment penalty, is $17786.76.
Adding LoJack costs $595, but allows police to track a stolen car. They claim that 92% of stolen cars get recovered within 24 hours. (And the Camry is a popular target for thieves.) Still trying to decide whether that is worthwhile. It would save me a whole $6/year on insurance. (Big whoop.)
Why is the price so low? Their explanation is that they don't control the mix of vehicles that Toyota sends them. (I can believe that a corporation would be this stupid.) The Prius immediately sells for full list price, no haggling (this matches what people who've bought the Prius have said), and they get more Camrys than they can sell. So they sell Camrys at a loss to be able to get extra shipments in.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #209,978
6/5/05 11:28:39 PM
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Yes. Do you know what it is/does?
--
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Post #209,981
6/5/05 11:43:02 PM
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I know what it is/does
You call 911, give them your information, and they turn on a radio receiver to let any passing cop that is properly equipped nab the thief. According to advertising, over 90% of the time the car is recovered (as opposed to 68% without), a quarter of the time an arrest is made, and on average 1/5 of the damage is done.
Just trying to figure out whether my odds of being stolen make it worthwhile. The Googling that I'm doing suggest that it may well be. :-(
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #209,980
6/5/05 11:39:47 PM
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Do you know of anyone out there that's had a car stolen?
The only car I personally know of being stolen was my mother's 1988 Olds 98 Regency. It had about 250,000 miles on it at the time. It was stolen from her church parking lot. Yes, they caught the kid who did it. He obviously didn't have much sense.
She got the car back after a few days. The steering column was busted up and he smashed out the headlights (the light switch was broken when he tore up the column, so he broke the bulbs to turn off the lights). It cost a couple of hundred or so for everything to be fixed (using parts from a junkyard).
Do you know of any friends or neighbors out there who have had their car stolen? If not, I'd say it's very expensive insurance for piece of mind.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #209,987
6/5/05 11:48:29 PM
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This *IS* Los Angeles
Car thefts are common here, though I can't bring specific incidents to mind in the time I've been here.
I'm going to be living in a nice part of Long Beach, but the city as a whole has few nice parts and a lot of sucky parts.
I'm leaning towards including it.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #210,013
6/6/05 7:43:45 AM
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It does happen.
My '87 Camaro Z28 was stolen out of a Southfield parking garage in the middle of the day.
They found it months later, stripped down to the engine block and the frame, on a street in Detroit.
The advice I was given at the time by one of the Southfield police officers was to stop carrying my registration and insurance information with the car. If the thief gets pulled over without them, odds are that he'll get stopped when the plates are run. Otherwise, he can just say he's borrowing the car from a friend.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #210,087
6/6/05 4:40:27 PM
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Had my new '87 'stang stolen...
I was about 15ft from it. I had parked it turned it off, grabbed the keys. Walk 15 ft to a Security Pacific ATM around the corner.
no more than 2 minutes more like 1 minute 30 seconds... it was gone, I heard it start, ran for it, heard and saw it scream away.
Man was I pissed. I was just done getting some quickcash.
Damn. That was the last time I *EVER* left a car of mine out of sight in LA.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
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Post #209,982
6/5/05 11:43:06 PM
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Take it
And yes, I'd say the Lojack it worth it.
Warm fuzzies.
Also, a big enough Lojack sticker, and it is less likely to be stolen.
Hmm - how much for just the sticker?
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Post #209,983
6/5/05 11:44:58 PM
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I believe there is no sticker with LoJack
If professional thieves know that it is there, they will find and disable it.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #209,986
6/5/05 11:47:57 PM
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If professional thieves get it, it won't matter
===
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Post #209,984
6/5/05 11:46:19 PM
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I *would* have said yes, but look at the insurance company
If this was really likely to pay off, they'd want you to have one. If you were financing you'd be carrying full-coverage insurance. If you pay cash you won't have to. Is the $6 they're offering based on the assumtion that they will pay if it's stolen?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #209,988
6/5/05 11:52:57 PM
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Yabut, there is a twist
I got a quote for what it would do to rates where I live now, not where I will live.
Right now I'm in Santa Monica. Our crime rate is low.
I will be living in Long Beach, which is not nearly as nice. (Consider that I've been advised not to live north of 7'th street...)
LoJack advertises that it is possible to save up to 33% on your insurance rates. Obviously that depends on car, insurer, and where you live. So it can be worthwhile.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #210,047
6/6/05 1:26:43 PM
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Aren't taxes computed on the before rebate price?
lincoln
"Until the revolution, we are only useful for our private information and our money."
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #210,119
6/6/05 8:10:13 PM
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Yes.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #210,092
6/6/05 5:30:42 PM
8/21/07 6:08:46 AM
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If the insurance company thinks so, they'll pay for it
It's their risk - that's why you pay them. Car theft is not your problem.
If you don't buy it and the car is stolen, they'll buy you a new car. The fact that they don't require it or rate discount heavily for it, implies that their actuaries think that it is more economical to take the chance and bet it won't be stolen.
Add to this the thought that thieves usually are often taking a car to perform some risky activity. For instance, a family station wagon was taken from a service garage where the mechanic started it to let it warm up before performing some check. The car was found filled with greasy car parts.
If taken, your car will likely be damaged within the first couple of hours - trust me - you don't want it back. You want a new car.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #210,094
6/6/05 5:38:49 PM
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How odd all this is.
Over here, car theft (usually for profit) was, at one point, endemic, and is now decreasing (for the following reason)
That's why if you get into any UK-spec car without the keys, your chances of starting it usually hover around the "nil" mark for anything made in the last 10 years. Even the \ufffd500 worth of Renault Laguna I used to have would be nigh-on impossible to start sans keys.
That'd be why one of the most commonly burgled items is, in fact, car keys.
Peter
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Post #210,101
6/6/05 6:11:47 PM
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if the car starts by inserting a key into a tumbler
you start the car by removing the pins and turn the tumbler with a screwdriver. Tools needed. One fast cordless drill, standard screwdriver.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
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Post #210,104
6/6/05 6:25:09 PM
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Slide hammer is faster than a drill.
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Post #210,105
6/6/05 6:32:35 PM
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Pair of scissors
...with electrical tape wrapped around one blade (the naked metal serving as the business end, the tape serving to insulate the bad guy's tender palm from harm as leverage was applied) was all it took to abscond with the SO's 1980 280Z at the end of 1999, after we'd been here about three months. The scissors were still stuck into the ignition when the car was recovered in nearby Richmond a few weeks later, having been abandoned and towed after the thieves blew the head gasket. She stashed the vehicle in a friend's garage for five years after that, and only returned it to functionality half a year ago when the friend decided she needed the garage for her own purposes. It now resides in her office parking lot near the waterfront, and is driven about fifteen miles a month. The arrangement does not make a great deal of sense to me, but the first time I raised this point persuaded me that little would be accomplished by raising it again. She does speak of having a cunningly-concealed kill switch installed, however.
cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
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Post #210,185
6/7/05 1:29:47 AM
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OK. You're in. Now start it.
UK spec cars are, like most, trivial to enter. They're not trivial to start, which is why twocking is increasingly associated with burglary.
Peter
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Post #210,193
6/7/05 2:39:32 AM
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Don't work for modern anti-theft ignition killers.
The key has a little RFID-type thingy in it. If the ignition system doesn't recognise the code in the key, it doesn't start. And the correct key no longer works, either! There were copious warnings from Mitsubishi about this when I got my ignition key copied: buy the blank from them, get it cut somewhere, come back and we'll code it.
I believe these are mandated in Australia, now.
Wade.
Save Fintlewoodlewix
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Post #210,194
6/7/05 2:53:35 AM
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That's certainly the case for my car.
Peter
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Post #210,208
6/7/05 8:31:47 AM
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cant press the valet button?
better yet yank the 2 wires that go into it and tie them together which is what I did on my Aerostar when the rfid battery on my key died.
For techno savvy folks you have strange ieas about how electricity works. The only thing you really need a key for is to unlock the steering wheel and there is ways around that as well.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
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Post #210,209
6/7/05 8:35:42 AM
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"Valet button"?
No such thing on my car. If the key doesn't fit, the immobiliser stays on, and the engine doesn't start.
Peter
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Post #210,210
6/7/05 8:39:51 AM
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what is an immobilizer
it is a device that separates 2 wires and uses a relay to join them when a signal is given, yank the farker out of the way and wire them directly. Alternatively run a wire from the positive cable on the battery directly to the coil and jump the solenoid Im off, yer walking.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #210,211
6/7/05 8:40:45 AM
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Never heard of that.
Can't see it working on any car with electronic ignition, either (controlled by EMU which is connected to immobiliser)
Peter
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Post #210,219
6/7/05 9:57:26 AM
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how is it connected to an immobilizer? a wire?
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #210,237
6/7/05 12:19:46 PM
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Indeed.
Mr EMU starts up, says to Mr Immobiliser "Sir, have we a proper key?"
Mr Immobiliser says, "Why, yes, we do."
Mr EMU says, "That's a good thing. I can't start this here engine without that, you know."
And Mr EMU then proceeds to deign to allow the electronic ignition to start.
Peter
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Post #210,241
6/7/05 12:26:30 PM
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and the laguage they speak is called voltage
bypass that sucker in a heartbeat.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #210,243
6/7/05 12:31:22 PM
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Right.
If you can start Bill's car without keys on July 3 then I'll buy you a beer.
Peter
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Post #210,245
6/7/05 12:33:20 PM
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is this the widget in question? (new thread)
Created as new thread #210244 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=210244|is this the widget in question?]
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #210,353
6/7/05 9:02:28 PM
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Don't have one of those.
It's not a high-end car, anyway. And for all I know, the authentication happens between the EFI unit under the bonnet and the key. And the cylinder in the column is probably armoured. And I know it does more than just unlock the steering column because that interlock is actually broken in my car. I have a good idea how electricity works, thank you (I've built things electronic), and can recast at the problem of bypassing the correct key as a security problem. And that class of situation I *am* familiar with.
Look, I'm not really interested in quite how it works because it works well enough. My previous car did not have such a system, nor an armoured cylinder and that led directly to it being a moderately popular model for theft. In the other direction, engine disabling mechanisms have gotten so good that thieves have taken to nicking the keys as well as the car. Sometimes at gun-point.
Wade.
Save Fintlewoodlewix
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Post #210,187
6/7/05 1:58:48 AM
6/7/05 2:00:18 AM
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Arse 1!
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
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Edited by pwhysall
June 7, 2005, 02:00:18 AM EDT
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Post #210,188
6/7/05 1:59:21 AM
6/7/05 2:00:39 AM
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Arse 2!
Peter
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Edited by pwhysall
June 7, 2005, 02:00:39 AM EDT
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Post #210,190
6/7/05 1:59:33 AM
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Falling Car Crime In The UK & The Great Insurance Ripoff (new thread)
Created as new thread #210189 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=210189|Falling Car Crime In The UK & The Great Insurance Ripoff]
Peter
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