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Welcome to IWETHEY!

New One more time.
Please read the court records.

[link|http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf|Here] (10 page .pdf) is Judge Green's order from 2/11/2000:

There are no written declarations by Terri Schiavo as to her intention with regard to this issue. Therefore, the court is left with oral declarations allegedly made to parties and non-parties as to her feelings on this subject. The testimony before this court reveals that she made comments or statements to five (5) persons, including her husband and her mother.

There was a lot of testimony concerning the Karen Ann Quinlin [sic] case in New Jersey. Mrs. Schindler testified that her daughter made comments during the television news reports of the father\ufffds attempts to have life support removed to the effect that they should just leave her (Karen Ann Quinlin [sic]) alone. Mrs. Schindler first testified that those comments were made when Terri was between 17-20 years of age but after being shown copies of newspaper accounts agreed that whe was 11 perhaps 12 years of age at the time. A witness recalled by Respondents testified to similar conversations with Terri Schiavo but stated that they occurred during the summer of 1982. While that witness appeared believeable at the offset [sic], the court noted two quotes from the discussion between she and Terri Schiavo which raise serious questions about the time frame. Both quotes are in the present tense and upon cross-examination, the witness did not alter them. The first quote involved a bad joke and used the verb \ufffdis\ufffd. The second quote involved the response from Terri Schiavo which used the word \ufffdare\ufffd. The court is mystified as to how these present tense verbs would have been used some six years after the death of Karen Ann Quinlin [sic]. The court further notes that this witness had quite specific memory during the trial but much less memory a few weeks earlier on deposition. At trial she mentioned seeing the television movie on Karen Ann Quinlin [sic] and had no hesitantly [sic] in testifying that this was a \ufffdreplay\ufffd of that movie and she watched such replay at college in Pennsylvania. She also knew precisely what song appeared on a TV program on a Friday evening when Petitioner was away at McDonald\ufffds training school. While the court certainly does not conclude the the [sic] bad joke and comment did not occur, the court is drawn to the conclusion that this discussion most likely occurred in the same time frame as the similar comments to Mrs. Schindler. This could well have occurred during this time frame since this witness and Terri Schiavo, together with their families, spent portions of summer vacation together which would have included the mid-1970\ufffds.

Michael Schiavo testified as to a few discussion he had with his wife concerning life support. The Guardian Ad Litem felt that this testimony standing alone would not rise to clear and convincing evidence of her intent. The court is not required to ruse on this issue since it does have the benefit of testimony of his brother and sister-in-law. As the witness called by the Respondents, the court had the testimony of the brother and sister-in-law trascribed so that the court would not be hamstrung by relying upon its notes. The court has reviewed the testimony of Scott Schiavo and Joan Schiavo and finds nothing contained theirin to be unreliable. The court notes that neither of these witenesses appeared to have shaded his or her testimony or even attempt to exclude unfavorable commments or points regarding those discussions. They were not impeached on cross-examination. Argument is made as to why they waited so long to step forward but their explanations are worthy of belief. The testimony of Ms. Bever;y Tyler, Executive Director of Georgia Health Discoveries, clearly establishes that the expressions made by Terri Schiavo to these witnesses are the type of expressions made in those types of situations as would be expected by people in this country in that age group at that time. They (statements) reflect underlying values of independence, quality of life, not to be a burden and so forth. \ufffdHooked up to a machine\ufffd means they do not want life artificially extended when there is no hope of improvement.

[\ufffd]

There are some comments or statement [sic] made by Terri Schiavo which the court does not feel are germane to this decision. The court does not feel that statements made by her at the age of 11 or 12 years truly reflect upon her intention regarding the situation at hand. Additionally, the court does not feel that her statements directed toward others and situations involving others would have the same weight as comments or statements regarding herself if personally placed in those same situations. Into the former category the court places statements regarding Karen Ann Quinlin [sic] and the infant child of the friend of Joan Schiavo. The court finds that those statements are more reflective of what Terri Schiavo would do in a similar situation for someone else.

The court does find that Terri Schiavo did make statements which are creditable and reliable with regard to her intention to given the situation at hand. Incidently, there is no question that Terri Schiavo does not pose a burden financially to anyone and this would appear to be a safe assumption for the foreseeable future. However, the court notes the term \ufffdburden\ufffd is not restricted solely to dollars and cents since one can also be a burden to others emotionally and physically. Statements which Terri Schiavo made which do support the relief sought by her surrogate (Petitioner/Guardian) include statements to him prompted by her grandmother being in intensive care that if she was ever a burden she would not want to live like that. Additionally, statements made to Miciael Schiavo which were prompted by something on television regarding people on life support that she wold not want to life [sic] like that also reflect her intention in this particular situation. Also the statements she made in the presence of Scott Schiavo at the funeral luncheon for his grandmother that \ufffdif I ever go like that just let me go. Don\ufffdt leave me there. I don\ufffdt want to be kept alive on a machine,\ufffd and to Joan Schiavo following a television movie in which a man following an accident was in a coma to the effect that she wanted it stated in her will that she would want the tubes and everything taken out if that ever happened to her are likewise reflective of this intent. The court specifically finds that these statements are Terri Schiavo\ufffds oral declarations concerning her intention as to what she would want done under the present circumstances and the testimony regarding such oral declarations is reliable, is creditable and rises to the level of clear and convincing evidence to this court.


Typos are mine except where indicated by [sic].

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New You know what insanity is, right?
Repeating the same thing and expecting different results. We have the husband, his family and a flaky witness to go on wrt "her wishes". The mother - and this contradicts what I heard from an interview with the husband last night - is news to me. He was asked why Terri had "never said anything about her wishes to her own blood relations" and he did not dispute that and, in effect, put it that this is something you wouldn't discuss with blood relations (is that also to be believed?). That Terri had apparently said something to her mother related to this issue was news to me, I'll admit. I'll concede that point of my ignorance and then not hesitate to reject it as irrelevant. You should, too, unless, of course, you're happy to hold an adult in life and death matters to what they said when they were 11 or 12.

Because a judge believed a philandering husband and his kin offers little (if any) proof of what "her wishes" were. And I find it curious that all the folks in favor of starving her simultaneously argue that "she has no ability to think" and that we "should honor her wishes". That is amazing.
bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
New Yeah.
Takes one to know one. :-D

Let's step back a bit.

Why would Michael be doing what he's been doing if he didn't think that's what she wanted? If he were a heartless cur only in it for the money, wouldn't he have taken the $1M or more that was offered? Wouldn't he have divorced his wife long ago and left her to her parents?

Oh, I forgot, he's just a heartless cur who enjoys being vilified.

[image|/forums/images/warning.png|0|This is sarcasm...]


I guess I'm done for a while.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Wait for the movie rights. ;0)
He'll get his millions ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
New Ha!
Your simultaneous cynicism and idealism amaze me.

:-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New :-)
bcnu,
Mikem

Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
     The Schiavo train wreck continues - (Another Scott) - (146)
         time for a compassionate pillow -NT - (boxley) - (1)
             ...placed over the faces of her parents... -NT - (jb4)
         I hate to say it.... - (Simon_Jester) - (10)
             I thinkthe money ran out 2 years ago -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                 The Terri Schiavo Foundation -- quotes... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                     facts he got 1 million, 700k for treatment 300k to him - (boxley)
             Follow-up... - (Simon_Jester) - (6)
                 You're selling yourself off cheap! :) - (a6l6e6x)
                 it been about the circus for a while - (boxley)
                 Wow. Decency is in short supply here... -NT - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                     :| Have you seen "O Brother, Where Art Thou"? - (jake123)
                     Whoops...sorry.... - (Simon_Jester)
                 Schindler's List II -- there's gold in them thar bills! -NT - (GBert)
         I think the whole thing is just sad - (Nightowl) - (11)
             Reason enough to have a living will. -NT - (jbrabeck) - (10)
                 They don't help as much as you think - (tuberculosis) - (9)
                     I've heard other such stories. - (jbrabeck) - (5)
                         No, the living will didn't enter into it at all - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                             That was a terrible experience - (bionerd) - (2)
                                 Yes it was -NT - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                     This is timely (new thread) - (tuberculosis)
                             Man, that's tough... - (jb4)
                     Re: They don't help as much as you think - (pwhysall)
                     One possible way to get around that - (Nightowl) - (1)
                         One minor bit of info - (Simon_Jester)
         Yet more grandstanding. - (Another Scott) - (1)
             And more to come.... - (Simon_Jester)
         if she was a dog - (boxley)
         Letter to my Congressman. - (Another Scott) - (3)
             Well said -NT - (Silverlock)
             This government is pro-torture on every front -NT - (tuberculosis)
             Two ears and a tail. -NT - (Ashton)
         Is there a better example anywhere ... - (mmoffitt) - (96)
             Points up the need for legal euthanasia - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                 Would training be necessary? The intent is to kill her, yes? - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                     Not kill, let her go - she's already dead. - (tuberculosis)
                     Re: Would training be necessary? The intent is to kill her, - (Ashton) - (1)
                         It does have at least something to do with MD's... - (mmoffitt)
             She's effectively been dead since 2/25/1990. - (Another Scott) - (90)
                 What you said. -NT - (pwhysall)
                 I don't think its "so clear". - (mmoffitt) - (88)
                     Read the trial record on FindLaw and AbstractAppeal. - (Another Scott) - (87)
                         Facts are facts. - (mmoffitt) - (86)
                             Amazingly enough, I find myself on the same side as you - (Arkadiy)
                             She won't recover... - (pwhysall) - (84)
                                 Can you point me at an article that describes - (Arkadiy) - (71)
                                     Re: Can you point me at an article that describes - (pwhysall) - (69)
                                         Oh, that's different then. - (mmoffitt) - (68)
                                             Please read Abstract Appeal. - (Another Scott) - (67)
                                                 And my question still stands. - (mmoffitt) - (66)
                                                     Parents don't own their grown children. -NT - (Another Scott) - (61)
                                                         They don't "own" wee ones either ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (60)
                                                             No, but they are legally responsible unless they're over 18. - (Another Scott) - (59)
                                                                 Except that we depend upon hearsay for that. - (mmoffitt) - (58)
                                                                     There was Clear and Convincing proof according to the courts -NT - (Another Scott) - (57)
                                                                         I'm lazy. Link where she in her own hand .... - (mmoffitt) - (56)
                                                                             Oh, for goodness' sake. - (pwhysall) - (51)
                                                                                 Huh? - (mmoffitt) - (50)
                                                                                     On what ethical basis do you want the family to decide? - (pwhysall) - (40)
                                                                                         According to your own words, Terri has no feelings - (Arkadiy) - (39)
                                                                                             Distinguish between "feeling" and "feelings" - (pwhysall)
                                                                                             I disagree. - (Another Scott) - (37)
                                                                                                 "Stated her wishes" completely overblown. - (mmoffitt) - (36)
                                                                                                     Your objections ignore her wishes. - (Another Scott) - (33)
                                                                                                         I don't know what her wishes are. - (mmoffitt) - (32)
                                                                                                             One more time. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                                                                 You know what insanity is, right? - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                     Yeah. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                                                         Wait for the movie rights. ;0) - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                             Ha! - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 :-) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                             Exactly - (jake123) - (25)
                                                                                                                 Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. - (mmoffitt) - (24)
                                                                                                                     Concur - (jbrabeck) - (23)
                                                                                                                         well, there's the problem - (jake123) - (20)
                                                                                                                             I don't blame him for moving on. - (mmoffitt) - (19)
                                                                                                                                 What if he's Catholic? - (jake123)
                                                                                                                                 'Till death do you part... - (hnick) - (5)
                                                                                                                                     PVS != Dead. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                                         No squash == dead - (hnick) - (3)
                                                                                                                                             Nobody but me does, unfortunately ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 when everybody else is consistantly wrong, - (hnick) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     hey none of that! -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                                                                 Decency? - (tuberculosis) - (11)
                                                                                                                                     agreed -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         Can we also agree ... (new thread) - (drewk)
                                                                                                                                     Right, like the $300,000 he took. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                                                                                                                         well she was a puker, finally getting her wish - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                                                                                             Don't need to make stuff up. - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                 The body isn't dead - (Silverlock) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                     A long time ago, ... - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                         There's a slight difference - (jbrabeck) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             I don't think we disagree at all. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                                                         Another Christian view - (jbrabeck)
                                                                                                                                                 Year? Because she died in 1990. (new thread) - (tuberculosis)
                                                                                                                         Trouble is, there's no legal way to do that. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                             It'd be interesting to see if that option were available ... - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                     Oh, you mean like Newt Gingrich? thats the "decent" thing? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                         Apple/Orange. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                     well who is going to pay for that? - (boxley) - (8)
                                                                                         Her nursing home care is free. Can't find where I read that. -NT - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                                             cant find a hard link but medicaid is only for the broke - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                                                 This isn't it, but supports my recollection. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                                     so that takes "its the husband wanting the money " out of it -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                         Not among the conspiracy theorists... :-( -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                         Watch for a book. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                         I always knew you were a closet-Bushie. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                             too bad hes not consistant :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                                                             It wasn't written, but her views were clear. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                 Thanks, but I don't need to dig. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                     Then no decision would ever be made for Terri. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                         Pretty loose with that word "family". - (mmoffitt)
                                                     You really need to move to Texas... - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                                                         Insane? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                             Look at the law in Texas... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                                                 Ah. Misunderstood. Agree. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                     And here is a second opinion that disagrees with the first - (Arkadiy)
                                 Oxymoron alert. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                     You forget. :-( Anyway... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                         Okay, but that's a hot-button phrase for me. - (mmoffitt)
                                     Stop right there. - (pwhysall)
                                     No. - (imric) - (2)
                                         *nod* -NT - (pwhysall)
                                         "Do not go gentle into that good night." YMMV. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                     It is more dignified than - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                         Well, imo, ... - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                             Over-generalised nonsense, but hey. -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                 Ever worked in a nursing home? -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                     about dying maybe, about choice of surroundings, yes - (boxley)
         Final whack at the horse in the PVS - (tuberculosis) - (2)
             froma quote in there, and the fact that 4 were arrested - (boxley)
             Thanks. -NT - (Another Scott)
         Parliamentary maneuvering continues. - (Another Scott) - (1)
             House debate just ended. - (Another Scott)
         Want to know who's behind it? (new thread) - (drewk)
         Judge Whittemore apparently not being stampeded. - (Another Scott) - (6)
             the US courts having this hot pig dropped into their laps - (boxley) - (5)
                 Dunno. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                     dang, I didnt know the veg was less than a mile from - (boxley)
                     Yeah, badmouthing the judge is really going to work well - (jake123) - (1)
                         American Ayatollah (ya so) has a eu-phoni-ous lilt to it (?) -NT - (Ashton)
                 Doubt it. USSC has previously refused to hear the case. -NT - (mmoffitt)
         Legal Experts Say Parents Are Unlikely To Prevail - (Another Scott) - (1)
             Request for Temporary Restraining Order Denied. - (Another Scott)
         11th Circuit denies appeal in 2:1 vote. - (Another Scott)
         Re: The Schiavo train wreck continues - (SpiceWare)

I have a cunning plan...
198 ms