I think the whole thing is just sad

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Post #196,907 by Nightowl 3/2/05 10:59:54 AM Reply	I think the whole thing is just sad And it makes you wonder what Terri herself would want, whether to live in that state as long as possible or get it overwith, somehow. Brenda "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #196,917 by jbrabeck 3/2/05 1:12:46 PM Reply	Reason enough to have a living will. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #196,918 by tuberculosis 3/2/05 1:26:52 PM 8/21/07 5:46:02 AM Reply	They don't help as much as you think If you want to have a living will honored - I suggest you have it tattooed on your ass and notarized. My dad had a living will, fat lot of good it did for him. His wife refused to dig it out and bring it in because she was deluded that he was "getting better". (I blame gutless doctors for much of this impression too). When my sister and I dug it out of his files and brought it in the doctors refused to honor it unless it was presented by his wife/legal guardian. Ultimately we found a doctor with some stones that put the picture together and ended the madness - but it took over a week to do it. Oh, and this was in fucking Florida. Coincidence? I don't know. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:02 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #196,919 by jbrabeck 3/2/05 1:32:04 PM Reply	I've heard other such stories. But, at least it WAS honored, even if it took a week. What would have happened if he didn't have the living will? A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #196,924 by tuberculosis 3/2/05 2:33:05 PM 8/21/07 5:46:16 AM Reply	No, the living will didn't enter into it at all Instead I had to go digging for a doctor with balls and ask him to integrate the picture for Dad's wife. The key issue seemed to be a plethora of specialists - each one would pop in every day or so and tweak his own little area - adjust this to lower blood pressure, add more of that to improve circulation, some of this to reduce bleeding, etc.... Every guy, when asked, would mumble about how his latest little tweak improved his little symptom. The problem was every tweak for one system hosed some other guy's tweak. Basically dad died of multiple system failure brought on by complications from radiation therapy to treat multiple myeloma. I finally called in a separate oncologist and asked him to integrate the picture and provide the overview prognosis. Dad's primary oncologist had lost his own dad to multiple myeloma and didn't have the stones to come out and say it was game over. He just could not say it. I have to say the guy I found was awesome, he called a bedside meeting (dad was unconscious and on a ventilator - already pretty much gone I think), explained that at this point what we had was technology run amok, and then point by point crushed all of his wife's false hopes with facts. Tough job but ultimately effective. An hour later they shot him with extra morphine and discontinued the meds that were keeping him going. With the blood pressure regulating meds gone he didn't last 30 more minutes. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:16 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #196,929 by bionerd 3/2/05 3:12:10 PM Reply	That was a terrible experience No one should have to go through something like that. It's hell on the patient and the family. "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers."
Post #196,931 by tuberculosis 3/2/05 4:03:39 PM 8/21/07 5:46:22 AM Reply	Yes it was "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:22 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #196,940 by tuberculosis 3/2/05 6:06:05 PM 8/21/07 5:46:49 AM Reply	This is timely (new thread) Created as new thread #196939 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=196939\|This is timely] "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:49 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #196,933 by jb4 3/2/05 4:12:45 PM Reply	Man, that's tough... But congratulations on finding that particular doctor. You might want to keep his name around...just in case.... jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #196,936 by pwhysall 3/2/05 5:12:12 PM Reply	Re: They don't help as much as you think I understand. Probably more than you know. You are not alone. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #196,973 by Nightowl 3/3/05 12:31:48 AM 3/3/05 12:34:37 AM Reply	One possible way to get around that Have several copies made and notarized. We did. My mom and dad had one each drawn up last year, and my brother and I both have copies of both of them. We also got the POT papers early and the bank signing worked out, and everything, so that either of us or them could present the papers and they hopefully would be honored. Oh and it was done by a lawyer, so hopefully that gives it more weight as well. Quite frankly though, as much peace as it gave us all, I still pray the day never comes when I'll have to use it. Brenda "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr Edited by Nightowl March 3, 2005, 12:34:37 AM EST Expand All History
Post #197,002 by Simon_Jester 3/3/05 9:47:59 AM Reply	One minor bit of info at least in Florida, you have to authorize DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) EACH time you enter the hospital.

The Schiavo train wreck continues - (Another Scott) - (146) - March 1, 2005, 08:27:34 PM EST

time for a compassionate pillow -NT - (boxley) - (1) - March 1, 2005, 09:15:45 PM EST

...placed over the faces of her parents... -NT - (jb4) - March 2, 2005, 01:40:53 PM EST

I hate to say it.... - (Simon_Jester) - (10) - March 1, 2005, 11:56:46 PM EST

I thinkthe money ran out 2 years ago -NT - (boxley) - (2) - March 2, 2005, 06:53:37 AM EST

The Terri Schiavo Foundation -- quotes... - (Simon_Jester) - (1) - March 2, 2005, 08:37:35 AM EST

facts he got 1 million, 700k for treatment 300k to him - (boxley) - March 18, 2005, 11:41:03 PM EST

Follow-up... - (Simon_Jester) - (6) - March 30, 2005, 04:28:01 PM EST

You're selling yourself off cheap! :) - (a6l6e6x) - March 30, 2005, 04:38:04 PM EST

it been about the circus for a while - (boxley) - March 30, 2005, 07:57:33 PM EST

Wow. Decency is in short supply here... -NT - (Arkadiy) - (2) - March 31, 2005, 09:15:09 AM EST

:| Have you seen "O Brother, Where Art Thou"? - (jake123) - March 31, 2005, 09:24:12 AM EST

Whoops...sorry.... - (Simon_Jester) - April 1, 2005, 12:14:43 PM EST

Schindler's List II -- there's gold in them thar bills! -NT - (GBert) - March 31, 2005, 12:23:47 PM EST

I think the whole thing is just sad - (Nightowl) - (11) - March 2, 2005, 10:59:54 AM EST

Reason enough to have a living will. -NT - (jbrabeck) - (10) - March 2, 2005, 01:12:46 PM EST

They don't help as much as you think - (tuberculosis) - (9) - Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:02 AM EDT

I've heard other such stories. - (jbrabeck) - (5) - March 2, 2005, 01:32:04 PM EST

No, the living will didn't enter into it at all - (tuberculosis) - (4) - Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:16 AM EDT

That was a terrible experience - (bionerd) - (2) - March 2, 2005, 03:12:10 PM EST

Yes it was -NT - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:22 AM EDT

This is timely (new thread) - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 21, 2007, 05:46:49 AM EDT

Man, that's tough... - (jb4) - March 2, 2005, 04:12:45 PM EST

Re: They don't help as much as you think - (pwhysall) - March 2, 2005, 05:12:12 PM EST

One possible way to get around that - (Nightowl) - (1) - March 3, 2005, 12:34:37 AM EST

One minor bit of info - (Simon_Jester) - March 3, 2005, 09:47:59 AM EST

Yet more grandstanding. - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 18, 2005, 10:37:04 PM EST

And more to come.... - (Simon_Jester) - March 18, 2005, 11:36:03 PM EST

if she was a dog - (boxley) - March 18, 2005, 11:46:26 PM EST

Letter to my Congressman. - (Another Scott) - (3) - March 19, 2005, 08:30:41 AM EST

Well said -NT - (Silverlock) - March 19, 2005, 11:34:13 AM EST

This government is pro-torture on every front -NT - (tuberculosis) - March 19, 2005, 01:41:43 PM EST

Two ears and a tail. -NT - (Ashton) - March 20, 2005, 01:18:29 AM EST

Is there a better example anywhere ... - (mmoffitt) - (96) - March 19, 2005, 01:04:13 PM EST

Points up the need for legal euthanasia - (tuberculosis) - (4) - March 19, 2005, 01:44:48 PM EST

Would training be necessary? The intent is to kill her, yes? - (mmoffitt) - (3) - March 19, 2005, 02:27:26 PM EST

Not kill, let her go - she's already dead. - (tuberculosis) - March 19, 2005, 03:49:23 PM EST

Re: Would training be necessary? The intent is to kill her, - (Ashton) - (1) - March 20, 2005, 01:42:33 AM EST

It does have at least something to do with MD's... - (mmoffitt) - March 21, 2005, 09:12:45 AM EST

She's effectively been dead since 2/25/1990. - (Another Scott) - (90) - March 19, 2005, 05:12:06 PM EST

What you said. -NT - (pwhysall) - March 20, 2005, 09:15:10 AM EST

I don't think its "so clear". - (mmoffitt) - (88) - March 21, 2005, 09:14:51 AM EST

Read the trial record on FindLaw and AbstractAppeal. - (Another Scott) - (87) - March 21, 2005, 10:00:19 AM EST

Facts are facts. - (mmoffitt) - (86) - March 21, 2005, 10:58:58 AM EST

Amazingly enough, I find myself on the same side as you - (Arkadiy) - March 21, 2005, 11:58:06 AM EST

She won't recover... - (pwhysall) - (84) - March 21, 2005, 12:11:55 PM EST

Can you point me at an article that describes - (Arkadiy) - (71) - March 21, 2005, 12:25:48 PM EST

Re: Can you point me at an article that describes - (pwhysall) - (69) - March 21, 2005, 01:44:55 PM EST

Oh, that's different then. - (mmoffitt) - (68) - March 21, 2005, 01:57:39 PM EST

Please read Abstract Appeal. - (Another Scott) - (67) - March 21, 2005, 02:01:28 PM EST

And my question still stands. - (mmoffitt) - (66) - March 21, 2005, 02:04:11 PM EST

Parents don't own their grown children. -NT - (Another Scott) - (61) - March 21, 2005, 02:07:23 PM EST

They don't "own" wee ones either ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (60) - March 21, 2005, 03:52:46 PM EST

No, but they are legally responsible unless they're over 18. - (Another Scott) - (59) - March 21, 2005, 03:56:47 PM EST

Except that we depend upon hearsay for that. - (mmoffitt) - (58) - March 21, 2005, 04:01:53 PM EST

There was Clear and Convincing proof according to the courts -NT - (Another Scott) - (57) - March 21, 2005, 04:18:02 PM EST

I'm lazy. Link where she in her own hand .... - (mmoffitt) - (56) - March 21, 2005, 04:31:36 PM EST

Oh, for goodness' sake. - (pwhysall) - (51) - March 21, 2005, 04:40:58 PM EST

Huh? - (mmoffitt) - (50) - March 21, 2005, 04:57:22 PM EST

On what ethical basis do you want the family to decide? - (pwhysall) - (40) - March 21, 2005, 05:00:40 PM EST

According to your own words, Terri has no feelings - (Arkadiy) - (39) - March 21, 2005, 05:07:34 PM EST

Distinguish between "feeling" and "feelings" - (pwhysall) - March 21, 2005, 05:14:23 PM EST

I disagree. - (Another Scott) - (37) - March 21, 2005, 05:14:39 PM EST

"Stated her wishes" completely overblown. - (mmoffitt) - (36) - March 22, 2005, 08:43:00 AM EST

Your objections ignore her wishes. - (Another Scott) - (33) - March 22, 2005, 08:51:56 AM EST

I don't know what her wishes are. - (mmoffitt) - (32) - March 22, 2005, 08:58:23 AM EST

One more time. - (Another Scott) - (5) - March 22, 2005, 10:26:40 AM EST

You know what insanity is, right? - (mmoffitt) - (4) - March 22, 2005, 10:44:40 AM EST

Yeah. - (Another Scott) - (3) - March 22, 2005, 11:07:40 AM EST

Wait for the movie rights. ;0) - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 22, 2005, 11:45:54 AM EST

Ha! - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 22, 2005, 11:54:47 AM EST

:-) -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 22, 2005, 11:57:19 AM EST

Exactly - (jake123) - (25) - March 22, 2005, 01:21:41 PM EST

Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. - (mmoffitt) - (24) - March 22, 2005, 01:44:25 PM EST

Concur - (jbrabeck) - (23) - March 22, 2005, 01:51:05 PM EST

well, there's the problem - (jake123) - (20) - March 22, 2005, 02:09:26 PM EST

I don't blame him for moving on. - (mmoffitt) - (19) - March 22, 2005, 03:27:51 PM EST

What if he's Catholic? - (jake123) - March 22, 2005, 03:34:03 PM EST

'Till death do you part... - (hnick) - (5) - March 22, 2005, 03:35:13 PM EST

PVS != Dead. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4) - March 23, 2005, 08:17:10 AM EST

No squash == dead - (hnick) - (3) - March 23, 2005, 08:50:08 AM EST

Nobody but me does, unfortunately ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 23, 2005, 09:04:16 AM EST

when everybody else is consistantly wrong, - (hnick) - (1) - March 23, 2005, 09:11:43 AM EST

hey none of that! -NT - (boxley) - March 23, 2005, 06:42:18 PM EST

Decency? - (tuberculosis) - (11) - March 22, 2005, 09:26:32 PM EST

agreed -NT - (boxley) - (1) - March 22, 2005, 09:27:15 PM EST

Can we also agree ... (new thread) - (drewk) - March 22, 2005, 09:33:12 PM EST

Right, like the $300,000 he took. - (mmoffitt) - (8) - March 23, 2005, 08:13:09 AM EST

well she was a puker, finally getting her wish - (boxley) - (7) - March 23, 2005, 08:22:48 AM EST

Don't need to make stuff up. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - March 23, 2005, 08:30:41 AM EST

The body isn't dead - (Silverlock) - (4) - March 23, 2005, 08:33:25 AM EST

A long time ago, ... - (mmoffitt) - (3) - March 23, 2005, 09:18:55 AM EST

There's a slight difference - (jbrabeck) - (1) - March 23, 2005, 09:32:21 AM EST

I don't think we disagree at all. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 23, 2005, 10:27:38 AM EST

Another Christian view - (jbrabeck) - March 23, 2005, 09:57:09 AM EST

Year? Because she died in 1990. (new thread) - (tuberculosis) - March 23, 2005, 02:00:16 PM EST

Trouble is, there's no legal way to do that. - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 22, 2005, 09:58:48 PM EST

It'd be interesting to see if that option were available ... - (mmoffitt) - March 22, 2005, 03:31:15 PM EST

Oh, you mean like Newt Gingrich? thats the "decent" thing? -NT - (boxley) - (1) - March 22, 2005, 06:53:55 PM EST

Apple/Orange. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 23, 2005, 08:28:13 AM EST

well who is going to pay for that? - (boxley) - (8) - March 21, 2005, 06:51:59 PM EST

Her nursing home care is free. Can't find where I read that. -NT - (Another Scott) - (5) - March 21, 2005, 07:15:24 PM EST

cant find a hard link but medicaid is only for the broke - (boxley) - (4) - March 21, 2005, 07:21:44 PM EST

This isn't it, but supports my recollection. - (Another Scott) - (3) - March 21, 2005, 07:37:57 PM EST

so that takes "its the husband wanting the money " out of it -NT - (boxley) - (2) - March 21, 2005, 07:45:03 PM EST

Not among the conspiracy theorists... :-( -NT - (Another Scott) - March 21, 2005, 07:52:58 PM EST

Watch for a book. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 22, 2005, 08:45:59 AM EST

I always knew you were a closet-Bushie. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - March 22, 2005, 08:44:34 AM EST

too bad hes not consistant :-) -NT - (boxley) - March 22, 2005, 06:58:39 PM EST

It wasn't written, but her views were clear. - (Another Scott) - (3) - March 21, 2005, 04:49:44 PM EST

Thanks, but I don't need to dig. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 21, 2005, 04:58:53 PM EST

Then no decision would ever be made for Terri. - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 21, 2005, 05:05:30 PM EST

Pretty loose with that word "family". - (mmoffitt) - March 22, 2005, 08:47:15 AM EST

You really need to move to Texas... - (Simon_Jester) - (3) - March 21, 2005, 06:45:40 PM EST

Insane? - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 22, 2005, 08:35:10 AM EST

Look at the law in Texas... - (Simon_Jester) - (1) - March 23, 2005, 12:59:59 PM EST

Ah. Misunderstood. Agree. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 23, 2005, 01:02:04 PM EST

And here is a second opinion that disagrees with the first - (Arkadiy) - March 23, 2005, 10:27:50 AM EST

Oxymoron alert. - (mmoffitt) - (11) - March 21, 2005, 01:53:29 PM EST

You forget. :-( Anyway... - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 21, 2005, 01:58:17 PM EST

Okay, but that's a hot-button phrase for me. - (mmoffitt) - March 21, 2005, 02:01:20 PM EST

Stop right there. - (pwhysall) - March 21, 2005, 02:17:22 PM EST

No. - (imric) - (2) - March 21, 2005, 02:31:58 PM EST

*nod* -NT - (pwhysall) - March 21, 2005, 02:34:01 PM EST

"Do not go gentle into that good night." YMMV. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 21, 2005, 03:53:48 PM EST

It is more dignified than - (tuberculosis) - (3) - March 21, 2005, 03:58:04 PM EST

Well, imo, ... - (mmoffitt) - (2) - March 21, 2005, 04:03:59 PM EST

Over-generalised nonsense, but hey. -NT - (pwhysall) - (1) - March 21, 2005, 04:13:41 PM EST

Ever worked in a nursing home? -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 22, 2005, 09:21:05 AM EST

about dying maybe, about choice of surroundings, yes - (boxley) - March 21, 2005, 06:54:35 PM EST

Final whack at the horse in the PVS - (tuberculosis) - (2) - March 20, 2005, 02:19:55 PM EST

froma quote in there, and the fact that 4 were arrested - (boxley) - March 20, 2005, 03:51:41 PM EST

Thanks. -NT - (Another Scott) - March 20, 2005, 04:15:43 PM EST

Parliamentary maneuvering continues. - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 20, 2005, 04:58:21 PM EST

House debate just ended. - (Another Scott) - March 21, 2005, 12:23:10 AM EST

Want to know who's behind it? (new thread) - (drewk) - March 21, 2005, 12:26:10 PM EST

Judge Whittemore apparently not being stampeded. - (Another Scott) - (6) - March 21, 2005, 08:44:49 PM EST

the US courts having this hot pig dropped into their laps - (boxley) - (5) - March 21, 2005, 08:54:20 PM EST

Dunno. - (Another Scott) - (3) - March 21, 2005, 09:11:14 PM EST

dang, I didnt know the veg was less than a mile from - (boxley) - March 21, 2005, 09:18:48 PM EST

Yeah, badmouthing the judge is really going to work well - (jake123) - (1) - March 22, 2005, 02:41:26 AM EST

American Ayatollah (ya so) has a eu-phoni-ous lilt to it (?) -NT - (Ashton) - March 22, 2005, 04:24:43 AM EST

Doubt it. USSC has previously refused to hear the case. -NT - (mmoffitt) - March 22, 2005, 08:48:42 AM EST

Legal Experts Say Parents Are Unlikely To Prevail - (Another Scott) - (1) - March 21, 2005, 11:38:01 PM EST

Request for Temporary Restraining Order Denied. - (Another Scott) - March 22, 2005, 07:53:51 AM EST

11th Circuit denies appeal in 2:1 vote. - (Another Scott) - March 23, 2005, 08:40:24 AM EST

Re: The Schiavo train wreck continues - (SpiceWare) - March 23, 2005, 09:41:04 AM EST

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