Re: Freedom is not free without loud dissent. thanks

Post #8,857 by TTC 9/13/01 10:28:55 AM Reply	Re: Freedom is not free without loud dissent. thanks > completely disagree with you of course but appreciate your trying to make us stop and think a little harder. > thanx, > bill Disagree with? The "Why" it happens? That the US "asked for it"? I would like to know what you're disagreeing... :) Thanks. PS. US is indeed a great country, with a lot of great people. But some of its actions in the recent years have further shown its arrogance and disdain on the world's opinion.
Post #8,865 by ChrisR 9/13/01 10:53:46 AM Reply	"world opinion" PS. US is indeed a great country, with a lot of great people. But some of its actions in the recent years have further shown its arrogance and disdain on the world's opinion. You seem to have some knowledge of what "world opinion" is. Care to give us an example of where the world has stood up and told the U.S. to stop any particular action? "World opinion" seems to be mostly apathetic when it comes to these matters. Serbia? Most of Europe supported the action in Yugoslavia, with only the Chinese dissenting - and that was a very muffled dissent. Iraq? The world opinion was that Iraq should be monitored for production of nuclear and chemical weapons, but they were unable to come to a consensus on how to carry that out. So how many nations have stood up in the last few years and given the U.S. the ultimatum that they need to let Iraq be "free". Again, some criticism here and there when it's convenient for their own ends, but where's the outcry that the U.S. is openly disdaining? Palestine? The situation is really rather simple. Set up a Palestinian homeland and let Israel live in peace (or vice versa, which is where the situation is hung up). Beyond the Arab nations - which seem to use the issue more for political gain, than any seeming cry for peace and prosperity - which nations of the world have condemned the U.S.? It is one thing to say that the U.S. sometimes goes beyond what "world opinion" is willing to do. It is quite another to say that the U.S. is saying fuck you to the rest of the world. You obviously have a skewed sense of judgement about how the world is reacting to U.S. actions. Instead of placing the blame on the U.S., why don't you tell the rest of the world to get it's shit together and speak with a clear voice - since you seem to weld the power of "world opinion", it shouldn't be too difficult for you to whip the rest of the world into consensus?
Post #8,868 by TTC 9/13/01 11:10:36 AM Reply	Re: "world opinion" Kyoto Accord, NMD, Nuke testing. Need I go on? Giving US the ultimatum? Who dares? Even the UN has to quietly wait for the US to pay its membership dues. I will suggest you go to the following site... [link\|http://www.antiwar.com/\|http://www.antiwar.com/]
Post #8,871 by Another Scott 9/13/01 11:26:40 AM Reply	Let's consider your list. Hi TT, Kyoto Accord, NMD, Nuke testing. Need I go on? Yes, we can consider those. Kyoto: 1 country has ratified the Kyoto protocols. 1. Romania? There's lots of political bluster about the US decision to withdraw from it, but you don't see other countries putting it on their law books either. And there's good reason to believe that even if it were implemented it would make little difference except take a huge amount of money from other causes which would save far more lives - like improving the water supply in poor countries. See, e.g., the new book "The Skeptical Environmentalist". He says even with full implementation, it'll delay the predicted 2 degree global warming over the next 50 years (as I recall) by 6 years. NMD: The US has not withdrawn from the ABM treaty. It, along with the Constitution and all other treaties, is still the supreme law of the USA. There have been discussions about building a NMD system, and discussions about withdrawing from the ABM treaty. But there's lots of opposition to those actions in the US. And with the actions on Tuesday, it's certainly possible that those in government will consider that maybe NMD isn't worth the money right now. Nuke Testing: I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Apparently there have been statements that Bush made along the lines of he'd accept more Chinese testing, but I don't know the details nor how that affects your argument. There would be strong opposition in the US to resumption of nuclear testing. I don't think you're making a strong case with the arguments you've presented thus far. Yes, the US has, with the benefit of hindsight, done bad things in the world. Different choices could have been made in many cases. But your broadside is misplaced, IMHO. Cheers, Scott.
Post #8,874 by ChrisR 9/13/01 11:27:25 AM Reply	Cowardice? Kyoto Accord, NMD, Nuke testing. Need I go on? Typical troll. Shift the issue away from the original issues into a wholly different set at the drop of a hat. The Kyoto Accord is global warming issue, not U.S. intervention. NMD is a domestic policy that has yet to be implemented - though it is being bandied about. Nuke testing - yep we've been exploding nuclear bombs all over the world. Not one of these fucking issues has a damn thing to do with what happened at the WTC. But I guess that don't matter to a troll. You use the tragedy of others to spread your own agenda. Giving US the ultimatum? Who dares? So you are basically saying that the rest of the world has no backbone? Of course, that's what started this thread. The U.N. is little more than an opinion poll, where member states can't seem to agree on any action other than slaps on the wrist like economic sanctions and sermons.
Post #8,884 by boxley 9/13/01 12:56:22 PM Reply	sniff, wipes me eye just like the old days on IWE :) why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them? Randy Wayne White
Post #8,940 by pwhysall 9/13/01 4:00:26 PM Reply	Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end -- Peter Shill For Hire

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