Biden won *The South* FFS.

Post #432,898 by mmoffitt 3/6/20 10:37:13 AM 3/6/20 10:37:13 AM Reply	Biden won The South FFS. And do you really think any Democratic candidate will carry The South in November? If our form of government is to survive, we must, MUST provide some reason for the 45+% of eligible voters who do not vote in our Presidential elections to show up and vote. This 45+% has no reason to support a RWNJ nor a "Moderate* Democrat." Contrary to our mythology, we've always been a plutocracy. From the slave holding Land Barons who founded the nation to the destruction of the "New Deal" Democratic Party brought about by one Bill Clinton. I find myself in agreement with Paul Krugman who admonishes Sanders for using the word "Socialist." There's nothing Socialist in what Bernie's advocating. Franklin D. Roosevelt would have supported (or co-authored) Bernie's platform. His "Medicare for All" pitch could have been written by the authors of the original designers of Medicare. Several years ago the last living member of that committee even said as much, noting that after the elderly, the plan was to extend benefits to under-18's. Then over 50's at which point, he said, there'd be so few not covered the last group (19-49) would be easy to add. All of Bernie's policies are the type of policies that were very much mainstream in the Pre-Clinton Democratic Party. And that is in no small measure why they are so popular. If you look at the results of exit polling in the states that Biden won, the number one issue for over half of Biden's voters was "Medicare for All" despite the person they voted for opposing it. As far as Bernie being Corbyn, perhaps you can tell me, Peter, how "radical" an idea would it be for a British politician to claim s/he "supported the NHS"? * "Moderate" here is in the American sense. A Right-Center Tory. One sufficiently Right that s/he wouldn't support the NHS. A Nigel Farage, in essence. That's a "Moderate" here. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,900 by pwhysall 3/6/20 1:38:12 PM 3/6/20 1:38:12 PM Reply	Everyone supports the NHS over here Because not to do so is political suicide. But here != there. As noted by some American analyst on Radio 4 this morning, the election in November is really all about 80,000 swing voters in 5 states. Sanders is toxic to sufficient swing voters that he cannot win. Biden is likely toxic to Sanders voters (and herewith half the fuckin' problem; there's nowt the Left (relative or otherwise) enjoys more than shouting "splitters!" at people whose goals largely align with their own), but can attract the floaters. The other problem, of course, is that even if I'm dead wrong, and on paper Sanders can win, his victory is predicated on The Youth. And The Youth will blow off voting for all sorts of reasons, including slightly inclement weather, something good on TV, shiny objects, and nothing at all. The Old vote no matter what, come hell or high water. Aside: Also note that Corbyn built a solid foundation of activism over his 33 years in parliament; whilst almost certainly well-intentioned, he did thing after thing after thing that made him look like he was aligned with if not actually sympathetic to our enemies and antagonists. A classic case was him going to Dublin to "negotiate" with Sinn Fein, back when SF were yet to be legitimate in the eyes of the UK government; what the fuck did he think he was doing? He had literally no mandate; he was just some bloke, and he ended up coming off, as always did, as being in bed with the enemies of the UK. At the very best he's always looked thoroughly unpatriotic. AFAIK, Sanders has never done this. So there's that.
Post #432,918 by mmoffitt 3/9/20 8:34:47 AM 3/9/20 8:34:47 AM Reply	It's difficult to argue with that. Particularly this bit... But here != there. Understood. BUT how are we ever going to improve here (the US) to the point that we get close to there (the UK) if we keep electing people beholding to the bankster class? I think I was first, here, to voice concern that if Bernie is the nominee, we run the danger of a McGovern replay. Still, if we are ever to improve our lot, isn't it absolutely necessary that we continue to try? Perhaps not. Perhaps it is time to call in the boats and piss on the Admiral. That is a bitter pill to swallow for anyone who has children and has, unlike the overwhelming majority of his fellow Americans, had the privilege of travelling to far more advanced societies across the Atlantic. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,922 by pwhysall 3/9/20 3:12:29 PM 3/9/20 3:12:55 PM Reply	Re: It's difficult to argue with that. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the slightly less crappy, is all I can say. Because "slightly less crappy" is all that's - realistically - on offer. Edited by pwhysall March 9, 2020, 03:12:55 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #432,923 by mmoffitt 3/9/20 3:40:18 PM 3/9/20 3:42:07 PM Reply	But not difficult to argue with that. I've grown increasingly weary of the "don't let the perfect be the enemy ..." nonsense. I'm not talking about anywhere near perfect. I'm talking about, God help me, returning to the more just years of Reagan's 1980's. I cannot accept that such is too much to ask and I reject outright the notion that those days were "perfect." Still, I think it's over for Bernie. All the establishment Democrats (read: New Way, Republican Democrats) are lining up behind the Plagiarist Senator from MBNA and it's only a matter of time before he's the nominee. More is the pity. But, as you say, it's the best we can do. I can think of no greater indictment of our system and our people than that to close upon. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again. Edited by mmoffitt March 9, 2020, 03:42:07 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #432,904 by a6l6e6x 3/6/20 8:51:15 PM 3/6/20 8:51:15 PM Reply	Voters in primaries != voters in election. Besides, even in primaries, let's see what happens in Michigan next Tuesday. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #432,956 by a6l6e6x 3/11/20 10:53:28 PM 3/11/20 10:53:28 PM Reply	Michigan decided that Biden has the best chance to beat Trump. Piss on the policies. That's secondary. Presidents never get their way. Biden won every county! Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #432,968 by mmoffitt 3/12/20 12:15:42 PM 3/12/20 12:15:42 PM Reply	If you run a Republican against a Republican, a Republican will win every time. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,975 by CRConrad 3/12/20 4:34:44 PM 3/12/20 4:34:44 PM Reply	And if you run a Democrat against a Republican but "progressives" won't vote for him...? The concept of "only have themselves to blame" seems to be totally lost on them. Including you. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #432,981 by scoenye 3/12/20 6:52:59 PM 3/12/20 6:52:59 PM Reply	The Progressives aren't the problem Haven't heard anyone say yet they will not turn out because Sanders lost/failed/was done in/run over/... (FYI, I'm in Vermont) I doubt Biden can dislodge those who voted facist because of the promise to get their job back. Biden's promised "More of the same" is what got them disillusioned to begin with. At best, they'll stay home, at worst they'll stick with Trump because they believe he'll yet deliver. Either way, it looks doubtful things will not improve in real terms.
Post #432,985 by mmoffitt 3/13/20 9:06:40 AM 3/13/20 9:06:40 AM Reply	Perhaps I was too subtle. I, like the vast majority of Sanders backers, will vote for the Plagiarist Senator from MBNA if he is the Democratic nominee. If he wins the general election, we'll have a sane traditional Republican in the White House who will slow down or completely stop the majority, but not all, of the worst Republican policies. If he loses, we'll have an insane semi-traditional Republican in the White House and can expect an intensification of the worst Republican policies, which will bring us ever closer to becoming a true fascist state. Either way, we'll have a Republican in the White House. See? bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,992 by CRConrad 3/13/20 1:39:32 PM 3/13/20 1:39:32 PM Reply	No, you weren't. But you're far too fucking cock-sure of yourself. First, for assuming anything you can write would escape my comprehension. I really don't know, nor think, you can be that "subtle". Haven't seen any signs of it so far, but feel free to start any time. Second, for promising for all Progressivedom that they won't actually, by staying home in Glorious Protest, vote for Trump. Totally missed the last few rounds of Democratic primary elections, did you? The ones where The Youngs all voted for Bernie... well, not in the actual primaries -- because if they had, they wouldn't have been such landslides for Biden -- but only on Twitter. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi

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