IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Indeed! Why not endorse the candidate who is guaranteed to lose!
Sanders == Corbyn

1. Super-popular with party
2. Electoral dogshit at the ballot box
3. Given to expressing surprise at (2) given that (1) happened, apparently not cognisant of the fact that party != electorate
4. Quest for ideological purity ensures ongoing power for the other guy
New You got it!
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Biden has no chance. We'll have Trump for 4 more years.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New I'm not sure of your point.
If Biden's chance of defeating Trump is zero, then Sanders' is surely negative.
New Biden won *The South* FFS.
And do you really think *any* Democratic candidate will carry The South in November?

If our form of government is to survive, we must, MUST provide some reason for the 45+% of eligible voters who do not vote in our Presidential elections to show up and vote. This 45+% has no reason to support a RWNJ nor a "Moderate* Democrat."

Contrary to our mythology, we've always been a plutocracy. From the slave holding Land Barons who founded the nation to the destruction of the "New Deal" Democratic Party brought about by one Bill Clinton. I find myself in agreement with Paul Krugman who admonishes Sanders for using the word "Socialist." There's nothing Socialist in what Bernie's advocating. Franklin D. Roosevelt would have supported (or co-authored) Bernie's platform. His "Medicare for All" pitch could have been written by the authors of the original designers of Medicare. Several years ago the last living member of that committee even said as much, noting that after the elderly, the plan was to extend benefits to under-18's. Then over 50's at which point, he said, there'd be so few not covered the last group (19-49) would be easy to add. All of Bernie's policies are the type of policies that were very much mainstream in the Pre-Clinton Democratic Party. And that is in no small measure why they are so popular. If you look at the results of exit polling in the states that Biden won, the number one issue for over half of Biden's voters was "Medicare for All" despite the person they voted for opposing it.

As far as Bernie being Corbyn, perhaps you can tell me, Peter, how "radical" an idea would it be for a British politician to claim s/he "supported the NHS"?




* "Moderate" here is in the American sense. A Right-Center Tory. One sufficiently Right that s/he wouldn't support the NHS. A Nigel Farage, in essence. That's a "Moderate" here.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Everyone supports the NHS over here
Because not to do so is political suicide.

But here != there.

As noted by some American analyst on Radio 4 this morning, the election in November is really all about 80,000 swing voters in 5 states.

Sanders is toxic to sufficient swing voters that he cannot win. Biden is likely toxic to Sanders voters (and herewith half the fuckin' problem; there's nowt the Left (relative or otherwise) enjoys more than shouting "splitters!" at people whose goals largely align with their own), but can attract the floaters.

The other problem, of course, is that even if I'm dead wrong, and on paper Sanders can win, his victory is predicated on The Youth.

And The Youth will blow off voting for all sorts of reasons, including slightly inclement weather, something good on TV, shiny objects, and nothing at all. The Old vote no matter what, come hell or high water.

Aside:
Also note that Corbyn built a solid foundation of activism over his 33 years in parliament; whilst almost certainly well-intentioned, he did thing after thing after thing that made him look like he was aligned with if not actually sympathetic to our enemies and antagonists. A classic case was him going to Dublin to "negotiate" with Sinn Fein, back when SF were yet to be legitimate in the eyes of the UK government; what the fuck did he think he was doing? He had literally no mandate; he was just some bloke, and he ended up coming off, as always did, as being in bed with the enemies of the UK. At the very best he's always looked thoroughly unpatriotic.

AFAIK, Sanders has never done this. So there's that.
New It's difficult to argue with that.
Particularly this bit...
But here != there.

Understood. BUT how are we ever going to improve here (the US) to the point that we get close to there (the UK) if we keep electing people beholding to the bankster class?

I think I was first, here, to voice concern that if Bernie is the nominee, we run the danger of a McGovern replay. Still, if we are ever to improve our lot, isn't it absolutely necessary that we continue to try? Perhaps not. Perhaps it is time to call in the boats and piss on the Admiral. That is a bitter pill to swallow for anyone who has children and has, unlike the overwhelming majority of his fellow Americans, had the privilege of travelling to far more advanced societies across the Atlantic.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Re: It's difficult to argue with that.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the slightly less crappy, is all I can say.

Because "slightly less crappy" is all that's - realistically - on offer.
Expand Edited by pwhysall March 9, 2020, 03:12:55 PM EDT
New But not difficult to argue with that.
I've grown increasingly weary of the "don't let the perfect be the enemy ..." nonsense. I'm not talking about anywhere near perfect. I'm talking about, God help me, returning to the more just years of Reagan's 1980's. I cannot accept that such is too much to ask and I reject outright the notion that those days were "perfect."

Still, I think it's over for Bernie. All the establishment Democrats (read: New Way, Republican Democrats) are lining up behind the Plagiarist Senator from MBNA and it's only a matter of time before he's the nominee. More is the pity. But, as you say, it's the best we can do. I can think of no greater indictment of our system and our people than that to close upon.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
Expand Edited by mmoffitt March 9, 2020, 03:42:07 PM EDT
New Voters in primaries != voters in election.
Besides, even in primaries, let's see what happens in Michigan next Tuesday.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Michigan decided that Biden has the best chance to beat Trump.
Piss on the policies. That's secondary. Presidents never get their way.

Biden won every county!
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New If you run a Republican against a Republican, a Republican will win every time.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New And if you run a Democrat against a Republican but "progressives" won't vote for him...?
The concept of "only have themselves to blame" seems to be totally lost on them. Including you.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New The Progressives aren't the problem
Haven't heard anyone say yet they will not turn out because Sanders lost/failed/was done in/run over/... (FYI, I'm in Vermont)

I doubt Biden can dislodge those who voted facist because of the promise to get their job back. Biden's promised "More of the same" is what got them disillusioned to begin with. At best, they'll stay home, at worst they'll stick with Trump because they believe he'll yet deliver.

Either way, it looks doubtful things will not improve in real terms.
New Perhaps I was too subtle.
I, like the vast majority of Sanders backers, *will* vote for the Plagiarist Senator from MBNA if he is the Democratic nominee. If he wins the general election, we'll have a sane traditional Republican in the White House who will slow down or completely stop the majority, but not all, of the worst Republican policies. If he loses, we'll have an insane semi-traditional Republican in the White House and can expect an intensification of the worst Republican policies, which will bring us ever closer to becoming a true fascist state.

Either way, we'll have a Republican in the White House. See?
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New No, you weren't. But you're far too fucking cock-sure of yourself.
First, for assuming anything you can write would escape my comprehension. I really don't know, nor think, you can be that "subtle". Haven't seen any signs of it so far, but feel free to start any time.

Second, for promising for all Progressivedom that they won't actually, by staying home in Glorious Protest, vote for Trump. Totally missed the last few rounds of Democratic primary elections, did you? The ones where The Youngs all voted for Bernie... well, not in the actual primaries -- because if they had, they wouldn't have been such landslides for Biden -- but only on Twitter.
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
     Warren Out. - (mmoffitt) - (31)
         Of course she will endorse Bernnie - (Andrew Grygus)
         Indeed! Why not endorse the candidate who is guaranteed to lose! - (pwhysall) - (15)
             You got it! -NT - (a6l6e6x)
             Biden has no chance. We'll have Trump for 4 more years. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                 I'm not sure of your point. - (pwhysall) - (12)
                     Biden won *The South* FFS. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                         Everyone supports the NHS over here - (pwhysall) - (3)
                             It's difficult to argue with that. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                 Re: It's difficult to argue with that. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                     But not difficult to argue with that. - (mmoffitt)
                         Voters in primaries != voters in election. - (a6l6e6x) - (6)
                             Michigan decided that Biden has the best chance to beat Trump. - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                                 If you run a Republican against a Republican, a Republican will win every time. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                     And if you run a Democrat against a Republican but "progressives" won't vote for him...? - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                         The Progressives aren't the problem - (scoenye)
                                         Perhaps I was too subtle. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                             No, you weren't. But you're far too fucking cock-sure of yourself. - (CRConrad)
         Seen elsewhere, anent the Sanders campaign: - (rcareaga)
         Re: Warren Out. - (rcareaga) - (12)
             I don't think I'll sit it out. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                 out of curiosity - (rcareaga) - (10)
                     why people vote or not - (boxley)
                     A variation in C#-Minor re this: an early start on culling voters--on steroids: - (Ashton)
                     She's reconsidered. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                         I can call the spirits from the vasty deep! - (rcareaga) - (6)
                             GI bill is still available so there is a model to provide schooling for public service -NT - (boxley)
                             So, your message to following generations is, "I got mine. Too bad for you" then? - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                 Most-all agreed ..in Calif. pre-Ronnie: it Was a Fiesta for *cheap* Edjumacacion. - (Ashton)
                                 trying to clean the wrong end of the pool, go to the hershey bar side - (boxley)
                                 Re: So, your message to following generations is, "I got mine. Too bad for you" then? - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                     It's muddy.. - (Ashton)

Divide by zero
163 ms