How's that noble Confederate cause working out for you? The guy in Charleston, nothing to do with all that, huh?
cordially,
cordially,
hey, mmoffitt
How's that noble Confederate cause working out for you? The guy in Charleston, nothing to do with all that, huh? cordially, |
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why the kid was following california chuck's play wasnt he? not confederate at all
chuck: helter skelter race war roof : keeping the race war going sounds like a california problem to me Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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sorry forgot an ob "can you dig it"
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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THAT was one of your poorest trolls EVER
"Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable." ~ AMBROSE BIERCE (1842-1914) |
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not a troll. A manson wannabee by his own words
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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O...M...G
One nutbag copies a line from another whackjob and you assign the problem to California? I have no idea and couldn't guess what Manson's sociopathies were base on, but this turkey is a poster child of the south that I grew up in. Ignorant, vacant stare, unbreakable opinions based on nothing. I was miserable every day of the 8-9 years I had to live in Virginia. He's pretty much normal there. It's not a Cali problem. "Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable." ~ AMBROSE BIERCE (1842-1914) |
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Re: O...M...G
I am sorry for your childhood, that but this turkey is a poster child of the south that I grew up in. Ignorant, vacant stare, unbreakable opinions based on nothing.exists in fresno, bakersfield and everywhere else in America. Assigning this action, as rand has done to the confederacy is as valid as finding out he follows manson's family. Manson got his followers to kill people to ignite a race war. This youngster did the same except he pulled the trigger himself. The connection is as close as the confederacy. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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Re: O...M...G
WereBear: 16. WereBear says: FWIW. Cheers, Scott. (Who read "Helter Skelter" long ago but has forgotten most of it.) |
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edit adding another link
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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Oooh. Quantum entaglement. I'm convinced. ;-) Thanks.
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thought you would like them :-)
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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Mr. Illuminati Guy seems sharp enough..
at least he's copped to the effects of a constant diet of heaped/dead/burned Bodies aka violence in all forms: as a central and recurrent theme ... in much of what passes for entertainment: whether songs-about-hos and their come-uppance ... or just any old excuse to display cgi Close-ups of mangled meat.. (for some sort of "authenticity"?) After all, once you're inured to sounds/images of horrific acts ... what.. horrific.. acts? ... (is what inured means, no?) Still, there are those who imagine that "acted-out events" don't count==guess they never heard of Gödel's comments on counting. As to this 21 yo nutter, whatever his previous obsessions: blongs on Elbe (along with that teen, a few years back: who microwaved a kitten. As a "joke" She said.) Adjacent cells for an indeterminate time ..add to their continuing daily dis-comfort, endlessly. Let them die of the boredom of empty heads. |
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Not precisely the same
There are horses everywhere, so obviously there will be horses asses everywhere. It is normal in the south. It is an exception in civilized places. Don't be sorry for my childhood; it was quite educational. I learned not to hate; it's too fucking expensive in personal terms. I learned to fight rather well. I still surprise my trainer occasionally. I'm quite at home being alone. I don't need to be, but it is fine if I am. I love and I am loved. The south was a very adversarial environment for me; I'm out of the cesspool for the time being. I can deal with the south now without taking it personally. I don't really care what they are up to down there, I am concentrating on being a decent mammal today. Have a great day... "Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable." ~ AMBROSE BIERCE (1842-1914) |
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Nothing at all.
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.- Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech He tried to retract the words after they lost, of course, which is when the whole "constitutional differences" idea was then put forth as the real reason for the war. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. |
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Soldiers aren't Politicians.
Why people like my ancestor fought on the side of the Confederates had nothing to with slavery (he had amassed a total personal wealth of $200.00 and there are signed legal documents attesting to that fact). What it had everything to do with was protecting family. It's useful to remember the most common answer (as reported by Shelby Foote) given by the poor crackers like my ancestor fighting and dying for the handful of wealthy plantation owners to the question posed by Union forces, "Why are you fighting?" was, "Because you are here." I am very far from surprised that extreme racism survives in the modern South. This kid is undeniably a psychopath. But, don't delude yourself into believing that this abhorrent thinking and behaviour is manifested only in the South. Remember this? http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46052395/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/arsonists-jailed-torching-black-church-only-hours-after-obamas-election-victory/#.VYRflqFVKlM Racism is everywhere. Your suggestion that "It's just a Confederate thing" accomplishes two things, one innocuous the other far from it. First, it lets you delude yourself into believing that because you are not a Southerner, you are somehow better than those backward, racist, hillbillies from the South. That's harmless. The danger is in the other thing. The danger is that you risk unwittingly being unable to see the racism in your own back yard. |
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FWIW
I think it actually goes the other way. Those of us not in the South are the ones who see it. -- Drew |
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There's that oversimplification again.
Yankees tend to believe all Southerners are racists and that even if not all of us are, then those of us who aren't willfully ignore it. People are people. Racism isn't a regional problem, it's a national disgrace. I'm being as honest as I can possibly be when I say that I've encountered more racism in the supposedly enlightened North than I ever did in Blowing Rock, Boone, Canton or Asheville. And it is vastly more sinister up here. Down South, the ignorant racists are plainly visible and do not hide their racism. Up here, it is hidden away until an All White gathering is available. Then the fangs come out. Down South, I never met a racist college graduate. Up here, I've met only a handful of college graduates who aren't as racist as any hood wearing Klansman I ever encountered down South. The difference is, up here, they're more polished. Up here, they know how to talk in polite company. |
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Indiana is still "the South" as far as I'm concerned.
Different folk down there. I've been to plenty "All White Gatherings" and have never seen the fangs come out in Michigan or Illinois. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. |
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when did indiana seceed from the union? "Michissippi indeed
how many members does http://michiganmilitia.com/ have who are black? dont get out much? http://www.thetoptens.com/most-racists-states-us/michigan-459682.asp Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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Talking about my experience.
Indiana is quite a bit more hick and backwards than downstate Michigan. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. |
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so hick and backwards michigan is south? sounds like yankee privilege :-)
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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NFC what you mean.
Northern Michigan is white trash and hick. Southern Michigan is quite a bit more cosmopolitan. Indiana is more like northern Michigan, but with a southern flavor. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. |
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Well, maybe you're "polite company." ;0)
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Kerry Reid would like a word.
Kerry Reid: 309. Kerry Reid says: It's a conundrum! Cheers, Scott. |
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As I hope you know, I do not support religious symbols on government property.
It can't be your argument that "the flag made him do it," can it? Anymore than TV, a movie or a song can be blamed. I don't think we should give these evil bastards that out. THEY did it. THEY, alone. And they alone should be held accountable. |
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People are taught how to hate.
When a baby turns 27 months old, a switch doesn't suddenly click and then they become racist. Racism is taught. Sometimes overtly, sometimes subtle-y, but it's taught. That teaching is part of the culture. The "stars and bars" is part of that culture as well: Georgia's Republican Gov. Sonny Perdue, who swept to office on a wave of white outrage over disrespect of the Confederate flag, today signed a bill that would finally repeal discriminatory laws left over from the fight against civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s. The laws had been designed to circumvent the Supreme Court's 1954 ruling against school segregation in Brown v. Board of Education; taken together, they essentially allowed white-only public schools to be reconstituted as "private" schools using state money, resources, and buildings. The old laws hadn't been enforced for years. Symbolism matters. Yes, racism exists everywhere, that's why it should be called out and confronted everywhere. That includes calling out its symbols - even in Indiana - also too. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott. |
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yup taught indeed
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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What would you say to Edgerton and the Hervey brothers?
From your linked article... In 2003 H.K. Edgerton, a Black man, attracted national attention when he carried the Confederate battle flag and led 20 white men in a march in North Carolina, where he spoke of contributions made by Black soldiers who fought for the Confederacy. |
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No real distribution is an ideal gaussian. There are always outliers.
http://www.thecarpetbagger.org/2012/09/hk-edgerton-black-confederate.html The truly disturbing part is when you venture over to Edgerton.'s website. Edgerton disputes that Slavery was the primary cause of the Civil War. Even more troubling, Edgerton defends slavery, painting the relationship between slaves and their owners as harmonious and loving. He also claims that African Americans fought for the confederacy, which is a questionable claim. From what I have read, they were not allowed to be soldiers, but did have roles where they assisted on the battlefield. http://anthonyhervey-confederatecrook.com/ For the 3 black people you can find that feel the way they do, there are 30M who feel differently. FWIW. Cheers, Scott. |
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The victors always write the history books.
Some time ago, I picked up this free book at the big river company and I read it from time to time. "Slave Narratives - A Folk History of Slavery in the United States from Interviews with Former Slaves" It was written by the Federal Writers' Project and assembled by the Library of Congress. (I think this is the same book, but mine doesn't have the fancy cover: http://www.amazon.com/North-Carolina-Slave-Narratives-1936-1938/dp/1557090203/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434900417&sr=8-1&keywords=slave+narratives+from+the+federal+writers%27+project+1936-1938 ) I'm not advocating for the slave apologists. I would point out, though, after reading some of these accounts and taking them at face value, it would seem to me that the institution of slavery in the South contained far greater complexity than one might suspect. The stories in that book are fascinating. Jane Lassiter's for instance. Here's an excerpt: We had plenty sumptin to eat an' it was cooked good. My mother wus de cook an' she done it right. ... Dere wus 'bout fifty slaves on de plantation, an' dey wurked from light till dark. I 'member dey wurkin' till dark. Course I wus too small to 'member all 'bout it an' I don't 'member 'bout de overseers. I never seen a slave wupped, but I 'member seein' dem carryin' slaves in droves like cows. De white men who wus guardin' 'em walked in front an' some behind. I did not see any chains. I never seen a slave sold an' I don't 'member ever seein' a jail fer slaves. Or former slave Abner Jordan's account of an encounter with Union forces: When de war come de Yankees come to de house an' axed my mammy whare de folks done hid de silver an' gol', an' dey say dey gwine to kill mammy if she didn' tell dem. But mammy say she didn' know whare dey put it, an' dey would jus' have to kill her for she didn' know an' wouldn' lie to keep dem from hurting her. De sojers stole seven or eight of de ho'ses an' foun' de meat and stole dat, but dey didn't burn none of de buildin's nor hurt any of us slaves. My pappy an' his family stayed wid Marse Paul five years after de surrender den we moved to Hillsboro an I's always lived 'roun' dese parts. I've only read maybe 10% of these stories. So far for me the most striking thing is how many slaves continued to live with their masters after the war. There are certainly instances of slaves telling stories about beatings, but the unusual thing for me is how many former slaves spoke fondly of their former masters. You don't read those stories in your history books. What all of us were taught is that all Southerners were racists who owned slaves, beat and raped them repeatedly and in general treated them in approximately the same way the Nazis ran their concentration camps. FWIW, from the stories I've read, I'd be willing to wager there are more than "three Black men" who feel the way HK does. |
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Another good book, mentioned here before.
Slave No More. Slave narratives, some of the most powerful records of our past, are extremely rare, with only fifty-five post–Civil War narratives surviving. A mere handful are first-person accounts by slaves who ran away and freed themselves. First-person narratives carry more weight. None of us were there. I know where the preponderance of the evidence lies for me, though. YMMV. Cheers, Scott. |
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lets not leave out the californians
their treatment of the chinese in the same time period of southern slavery met or exceeded their southern bretheren. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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Read "Uncle Tom's Cabin"!
I may be a novel but it caused the Civil War. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov |
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All definitively covered in 'South Pacific'
You've got to be carefully taught to hate. ..and that was about (early dis-) U.S. callow military yout and Pacific islanders/not something radical like.. 'the negro-down the street. Hearing South Pacific as a pre-teen, I thought the song was all ye needed to know on the topic. You'd think this an ideal antidote--in any era--to parent-inculcated xenophobia, right? But, in Murica: you'd be wrong. (WikiP has story from '44 to ''47 when stage play became The Beatles du jour. PInza movie was '58.) |
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Yup. That song was in the back of my head writing my comment.
driftglass, also too: And after a steady diet of lies and abject denial about those lies, undoubtedly millions of Conservative meatheads have come to believe that all of it is true, in the same way that millions of North Koreans believe that North Korea won World War II and is now the dominate superpower on planet Earth. The difference, of course, is that while the average North Korean is imprisoned in on all sides by walls and mines and machine guns and are pounded with propaganda from cradle to grave, the average Conservative could easily find out just how completely they have been brainwashed and how monstrously they have been lied to with a few clicks of a mouse or by changing the channel. Cheers, Scott. |
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Alas.. 'information technology' guarantees that exp-increasing Noise is easier and cheaper
than ever. It seems that the symbols describing our predicament are also quite compact: [S/N] Signal-to-noise ratio; ask any EE about that whole marvelous phenom. [n!] n-Factorial; elementary math/logic ... harbinger of doom in many situations. [Exponential equations] We've been through Edw. Teller's memorable quote re the emotional non-comprehension of such things, by most. Do we need any more than these three concepts? to measure the direction of the Power- thus Money- obsessed, as they see the success of their daily purchase of More Noise on all channels. Rest case. A crap-shoot for all mammals on an endangered planet, currently under control of those dedicated to infinite accretion of means towards insane dreams: a mere few HUNDRED homo-saps -vs- the billions. 7ish? x 109 -vs- a couple-hundred-ish of deranged Moguls. Unimaginable, if posited a couple decades ago, I wot. As we ... mostly ... watch the Corporatocracies consolidate, strengthen their inter-operations via antediluvian ideas of Worth and of Finance worldwide. As fiction: a too-ludicrous plot to be believed. As fact +/- ... leitmotif of a vastly-wimpy species, clearly terminally gullible: (Note that 15 yrs. into this ugly 21st century: there's hardly any {even sub-space..} chatter about the ongoing cost of the USSC-selected Shogunate fiasco, its consequences nowhere nearly neutralized, as the damage serially spawns new vectors, all made possible by the entire M.E. Murican Clusterfuck). That fav word of him-who-must notbenamed: strife ... encapsulates the foreseeable futchah. Initiated by 9 old farts, obsessed with fucking-over word-Referents in total-isolation! as the brokenness expands. Surreal. As we ... mostly ... still watch, not believing that a few paramecia really CAN wag, from the tail: the entire ailing Brontosaurus. Place your bets; we're rilly-Short of beneficent dictators so.. you know.. Ed: oTpy |
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Counterpoint.
TarheelDem: A lot of those poor Southern whites were conscripted in 1863 and 1864, states sent out bounty hunters for draft-dodgers. By 1863, the planters were figuring out how to send other recruits in place of their offspring. That reminds me of a (poorly remembered) story my great aunt told about one of her close relatives (father?) who fought on the Union side. They were from Ohio or Indiana. He was just a kid, got signed up by his parents (IIRC), but dutifully sent his meager pay home. When he got out of the Army he returned to find that they had spent all the money. Some related stories (, perhaps by a relative?,) are here. It's hard to generalize from anecdotal stories, no matter how interesting. Cheers, Scott. |
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stand watie was neither white or conscripted
there is a reason that the us army all volunteer during the heavy fighting in Baghdad were volunteers from appalachia. A per capita ration much higher than the rest of the USA. Im sure during the battle of Kings Mountain a few of the fighters against the british shirked their duties, but they were in the minority. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep |
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Neither was Ely Parker.
Ely S. Parker: Ely Samuel Parker (1828 – August 31, 1895), (born Hasanoanda, later known as Donehogawa) was a Seneca attorney, engineer, and tribal diplomat. He was commissioned a lieutenant colonel during the American Civil War, when he served as adjutant to General Ulysses S. Grant. He wrote the final draft of the Confederate surrender terms at Appomattox. Later in his career, Parker rose to the rank of Brevet Brigadier General, one of only two Native Americans to earn a general's rank during the war (the other being Stand Watie, who fought for the Confederacy). President Grant appointed him as Commissioner of Indian Affairs, the first Native American to hold that post. Tennessee is called the Volunteer State for several reasons, one of which is that it sent more than its share to fight in the War of 1812. The military is often a way for people in poor areas to climb up the economic ladder. Ranking patriotism is tough. FWIW. Cheers, Scott. |