All that and a bag of chips!

Post #31,857 by orion 3/12/02 1:53:06 PM Reply	All that and a bag of chips! You hit the nail on the head. Most fights they don't deal with properly and the kids fight again later on. They never seem to do anything about bullies and kids like I was will keep being bullied and picked on. It was rough for me, and the school never did anything to stop the bullies. They just gave them detention, which made them madder at me, and they would start a fight with me the next day. A slap on the wrist for the bullies if you ask me. Never any prevention of the problem, always the band-aid method of covering it up and hope it doesn't happen again. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #31,890 by Ashton 3/12/02 4:44:56 PM Reply	And the school admins will reply to your points: The Peepul have Decided that - schools are Not to discipline the Cheeldrun, except in some meaningless way as you describe. A bully (that name is surfacing more and more in the noise, I've noted over past couple years) CANNOT be expelled: there would be lawsuits. There are so many 'bullies' in high places to serve as Model Muricans: Billy anyone? (It even rhymes) Corollary - the "mobile home park operators" in Sonoma CA, in response to ordinances passed to protect their clients from certain predatory tactics: simply deluged the City Council with nuisance lawsuits (the ones pursued at expense: were won by the City).. until they wore them down; costs to defend were too high. New ineffectiove rules played to the greed. Now THAT's Murica 2K from top to bottom. So while ragging on the ineffectiveness of those awful school admins - keep in mind WHO has handicapped them and HOW. As with the election of assholes to high public office: It's The Peepul* every time. Wanna talk about lawyers, and WHO hires them - next? * My little Ghengis? why he's a Good boy.. you dastardy fiend - how Dare you!! Ashton piss, moan - never go to the root cause.
Post #31,895 by wharris2 3/12/02 5:18:56 PM Reply	Ah, for the old swat-board Corporal punishment, that is. Some guys may have worn there reddened butts as a badge of courage, but it would discourage the potential wannabe bullies. Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt
Post #31,908 by Ashton 3/12/02 6:26:38 PM Reply	You leaped there, not moi. IF expelled: big trouble for mom n'pop.. a workin 24/7 to buy the new UAV and leave little Attila to play with his friends with shaved heads. They DON'T want to have to keep track of Attila during incarceration hours. So: MAKE them be responsible. [Hah..] Screw beating them into a surliness just like their parents' - just place the correctional training exactly where the Farmily Valuez Coalition for a Homeogenized Murica wants them: in the fucking homes which breed uncivilized (and by school-time, uncivilizable) unter-Nazis, as often end up as CIEIOS: doing much Larger mischief, endlessly.. (What, you say that these folks can't afford the time to train-up their spawn -- at least one of them -- at $7/hr X2?) Another thread, that. Beat them - and you just make it permanent. Civilize them, even if you must look that up in the dictionary and then read about twenty books.. which you skipped to take your Consuming-101 class. My Rx.
Post #31,919 by JayMehaffey 3/12/02 7:33:52 PM Reply	Nice theory, hard to apply That is certainly a nice theory, and it's the one schools generally try to apply, however badly. The problem comes in when you begin counting the number of people the bullies hurt while you wait for them to come around. And considering that many never do, just flail around till they get old enough for criminal law to apply, you begin to see a bright side to paddles. Of course if we do allow schools to physically punish students, the privilage will be abused. Anybody that doesn't think that principles will let their prejudice guide their decision over who gets beaten need to check into a mental ward. In the end it becomes one of those pick-your-poision choices. Would you rather see students abused by the principle or by the students? Jay
Post #31,926 by Ashton 3/12/02 8:09:22 PM Reply	Aye, there's the rub. I didn't imagine my 'solution' was workable, merely an angle on the blame game. Who DO 'we' blame - for raising a brood of self-obsessed, logo-crazed, often incorrigible asocial twits, even less aware of readin, writin n' rithmetic (let alone history) than their overstressed parents - them Libruls? them Patriots? them ___? Maybe the only antidote to our present dilemma is (was) - not ever to let it happen.. to this level of dysfunction, anyway. How soon... before the teachers as are left - begin to leave an untenable situation? Maybe they'd prefer the blatant lying-BS of Corporate over.. the too-large undisciplined class chaos. After all, you must achieve a small success occasionally, to stay with any difficult task. As a teacher in '02 - how often does that occur? Ashton No practical 'solution' in sight, either.
Post #32,355 by jb4 3/15/02 1:34:52 PM Reply	I gotcher missing word right 'ere! Who DO 'we' blame - for raising a brood of self-obsessed, logo-crazed, often incorrigible asocial twits, even less aware of readin, writin n' rithmetic (let alone history) than their overstressed parents - them Libruls? them Patriots? them ___? The word you're looking for here is, I think, opportunist Them what's bullies are nothing but opportunists, without the maturity/restraint/morality to channel that into something more...enterpreneurial. And, of course, you're right wne you posit that these types grow up (if that's what really what happens) to become the next generation of CIEIOs. (After all, wanton exploitation is good for the shareholders...) jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #32,387 by Ashton 3/15/02 4:16:49 PM Reply	Yup, I'd say we've achieved lock-in
Post #31,918 by altmann 3/12/02 7:32:44 PM Reply	Ah, memories We had that in the 4th grade (Las Vegas, NV around 1977). I don't know what effect it had on bullies (I don't remember having any problems with them), but it sure made me want to finish my math classwork. Actually we had a choice, paddle (two varieties; with and without holes) or boot. I never actually had to undergo either process. I think that was one of the reasons we moved back to Cali within 9 months (the other being the wonderful desert wasteland). -- Chris Altmann
Post #31,923 by nking 3/12/02 8:01:18 PM Reply	Well then, lets see it another way shall we f were a kid and got picked on a lot by bullies and the school refused to do anything about it, would get a lawyer and sue the school, the bullies, and the parents of the bullies for making my environment a hostile environment by the bullies harassing me. I would get a court order against the bullies to stay 300 feet away, and carry it with me. If they break it, then they can go to juvie, or military school, whatever. It would either be that, or stay at home and have a lot of sick days trying to recover from being picked on. But nothing like what happened at Colunbine, because I am against violence. "Will work for fair salary and benefits, seeking company with integrity."
Post #31,928 by Ashton 3/12/02 8:21:02 PM Reply	Yer lookin BACK, again.. About what you'd do (when you get to relive that all, equipped with x years more experience, some $ and a personal lawyer plus accumulated anger to-date) Notice how unsatisfying that is? Doesn't it also feed an er depressing view of everything? Wouldn't it create more positive fantasies.. to imagine that you might well be quite capable of something other than VB (and the mindset which Corp brings to the employment of anonymous VB-making-machines, 'which' [not 'whom'!] they put in little boxes and flog)? From Aardvark-minding through Zebra-tending -- can you imagine a future different from that past? A next... that is.. Please try. Then begin to develop imagination. Then.. try again. A.
Post #32,071 by marlowe 3/13/02 5:12:08 PM Reply	Back to the future. The one good thing about regrets is that next time you're in the same situation, other options come quickly to mind, having been thought of earlier at one's leisure. But I'll second your point about skills development. You can never have too many. And no regrets about those of lesser value. Me, I don't even know VB. But I've got other useless skills. PDP-10 assembly language programming, anyone? [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #32,082 by Ashton 3/13/02 6:18:24 PM Reply	I can de-trump that ______:-\ufffd PDP-8 !! ASR-33, paper tape (still have one of my Argghhh33 BCD tape-reading programs of a few octal commands = on paper tape, natch). Ahhh... that smoked-grey plastic cover and all those un-coded yellow wires on the backplane. How many fabrication folk had to be committed, after a dozen iterations (?) Yep, these namby pamby CRT-slaves don't know what Reel computing was like.. jes like - they never heard The Shadow or Charlie McCarthy and gots no idea how Much better radio was (for mysteries n'stuff cf. Orson Welles) than Tee Vee. ..buncha pampered dilettantes! Ashton Damn.. my Emerson needs a 35Z5, and a Nixie's out in the NLS counter, too. My utterly biased and incompetent view of 'VB' is - were I to pay any attention to it, I would be constantly reminded of Billy's sordid history; that I was contributing to his continuance.. so then next: I'd be nauseous. I can live with the irrationality. But not with 'VB'. Or .NET or
Post #32,111 by a6l6e6x 3/14/02 12:10:22 AM 3/14/02 12:13:14 AM Reply	Oh Yeh? I did assembler on the PDP-1 in 1961! Really. :) 18-bit word machine. Paper tapes produced on a Flexowriter. [link\|http://www.dbit.com/~greeng3/pdp1/pdp1.html\|PDP-1 Link.] Alex "Never express yourself more clearly than you think." -- Neils Bohr (1885-1962) Edited by a6l6e6x March 14, 2002, 12:13:14 AM EST Expand All History
Post #32,117 by Ashton 3/14/02 1:56:11 AM Reply	{waves whiteflag} .. OK they had a PDP-5 too, but - What was most fun was the process: 1) Write out the code in octal 2) Punch the cards for the CDC-6600 3) Order batch job (CPU time: 1 mS) 4) Fetch and bring back Big 10.5" reel of tape (.0000000001% used) 5) Run local tapedrive and punch paper tape 6) RIM for PDP-8, use switches to load binary for ~12 boot instr. 7) Run tape (!) on ASR-33 8) Now.. you can see if it worked. If not? 9) GoTo 1) ..the exercise alone, running up the hill to CDC territory, pretendin to be a geek - even kept one 'in shape' (the Real hidden cost of CRT coding... is skipping steps 2) thru 8)) A. just not cut out for it..
Post #32,125 by static 3/14/02 5:59:48 AM Reply	I remember... ... programming a kit micro-computer. In machine code. 'Twas a kit for electronics hobbyists featuring a Z80, 2k RAM, 20 button keypad, 6 LED digits and an expansion socket. Programming required copious pencil and paper, and an op-code listing. It was really after I lost interest that I found out that the Z80 op-codes were designed by thinkers in octal, not hexadecimal. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #32,357 by jb4 3/15/02 1:38:29 PM Reply	I'll see yer PDP-8... (..on which I learned the fine art of programming...)...and raise you a Signetics 2650. jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #32,402 by hnick 3/15/02 5:58:22 PM Reply	Cool... the problem with this kind of thing is... when you forget to take it off your resume. A couple jobs back, ~8 years or so, I neglected to scrape RMX and ISIS off the trailing end of my resume. I had hired on as a contractor with flexible duties, and wouldn't you know, every time there was a problem with the legacy RMX stuff, I got to handle it. There's a lot of stuff that was kinda fun at the time, made you feel shit hot at the time, but you really wouldn't want to have to do it again. For the record, I HATED paper tape and Hollorith (sp?) cards. I threw away the S-100 Z80 machine I built about 10 years ago. Didn't even have a hard drive... imagine... More recently, I pitched my 8 inch floppies, then the 5 1/4 ones. I don't really think that the good old days were good enough to go back to. The fine parts are nice to dwell upon, but most of the experience is better forgotten... (picking through core dumps, brain dead monitor programs, editors that made vi look intuitive... the list can be ghastly.) On the other paw, if this is a version of "mine's bigger than yours", on with the games! Regards, Hugh
Post #32,413 by Ashton 3/15/02 8:38:31 PM Reply	I can romanticize the era a bit since, I escaped --> where it was leading (apparently, as we read today's little entry in Microsoft Guilty forum) to merely and permanently: All Windoze All the Time or, yer a Terrorist and the Home Guard will getcha.. Sorry guy n' gals, but the trend seems to be: any imaginable progress in your field has just about been ceded to - almost any location far enough off-shore. You are all about to retire or become Ballmerized (if not incarcerated too). Ashton nostalgia ain't what it used to be..
Post #32,174 by wharris2 3/14/02 12:12:52 PM Reply	Useless skills I can sing at 300 baud; eg, well enough that the other modem will connect. :=) Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt
Post #32,297 by CRConrad 3/15/02 7:06:36 AM Reply	Yeah, but can you post here that way? "Look, Ma, no hands!" ;^>
Post #32,436 by wharris2 3/16/02 10:16:14 AM Reply	Probably post something, if I could find a 300 baud modem Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt

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