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New 'to the extent we desire Nature to yield reliable results'
Actually this doesn't apply. Crystals are a tool of the healer, not of nature, just as a tarot deck is a tool of the reader and has in itself no magic.

Whether a healer or a tarot reader is effective is a very individual thing, some are, most aren't, and telling one from another is pretty much impenetrable to scientific study. Tell me scientifically why Picasso was a great artist and why 10,000 others weren't.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New WHAT???
Emphases added:
Whether a healer or a tarot reader is effective is a very individual thing, some are, most aren't, and telling one from another is pretty much impenetrable to scientific study.
V's right pleural cavity was filling with fluid. Trained medical personnel put a drain in it, and relieved her discomfort. Are you suggesting that V might have skipped the doctors and gone to a tarot reader to determine her course of treatment from that point?

This seems inconsistent with the impression I had formed of you.

bewilderedly,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New You go to whoever's appropriate to your problem.
Clearly advanced cancer isn't a problem appropriate to a tarot reader though some emotional issues very well might be - depends on the reader.

Your friend obviously has a problem appropriate, at least in large part, to invasive surgery and similar methods.

Whether a good healer (with crystals or other tools of choice) might be an adjunct to this treatment is the open question - possibly for comfort but almost certainly not for cure at this stage.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New OK, sure
Clogged toilet, I consult plumber.

Dodgy wiring, I consult electrician.

Cancer, I hie me to the oncologist.



—tell me again, for what do I consult the palmist, the tarot-card reader, the Wiccan crystal goddess, the phrenologist? And how do I quantify the likely expertise of these worthies as against the, ah, mature technologies represented by the first three enumerated professions?

mystified,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New Well, say you had some emotional issues or. . .
. . your life seemed without direction. Would you go to a psychiatrist and expect "scientifically verified" results? From the results I've seen you won't do any worse with your local witch doctor, and it'll cost you a hell of a lot less - and if s/he's good it just might help.

For a chronic health issue where the doctors simply say "there's nothing wrong with you" or go wandering off on some currently popular but inappropriate tangent as they often do, a healer is probably a better choice - at the least less damage will be done.

Here again, effectiveness is an entirely personal thing, a relationship between the practitioner and the client. It's up to the client to judge if that relationship is effective.

Practitioners that try to be "scientific" are generally ineffective. Back around 1970, Paula, a former girlfriend, was taking singing lessons from a well known teacher, a Dr. Long, who was also president of the American Astrological Society.

The AAS was trying to get a law passed in California to certify and license astrologers. Certification was, of course, to be according to the "scientific" astrological principles of the AAS.

Paula was sent out on spying missions to various astrologers to have readings done and report back as to their compliance or non-compliance. She told me that what really struck her was that the really good ones paid no heed to "scientific" principles at all, but used the tools in their own personal way, and each in a different way. Those that followed the formal rules were all hacks.

Phrenology is a pseudo-science and unlikely to be effective in any way - but the Wiccan crystal goddess might be effective, and at least will be a lot more fun, and that could help right there.

A funny: - Years ago I was at a party talking to a schoolteacher. She told me that the year before she'd been at some sort of teacher's retreat. A card reader had set up camp there and did readings between scheduled events.

She told me that several teachers had readings done and were urging her to have one, "It's fun!". She told them it was senseless and irrational and she wouldn't do it.

Finally succumbing to peer pressure she sat down for a reading. The guy spread the cards and looked at them for a bit, then looked her in the eye and said, "First of all, you've got to stop messing around with the guys at work".

She told me, "That hit so hard I didn't hear another word he said".
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New As to Astrologers, Homeo - swan song, for here (new thread)
Created as new thread #290698 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=290698|As to Astrologers, Homeo - swan song, for here]

     Two words: Bad plastic - (Ashton) - (45)
         That was a hell of a leap - (crazy) - (44)
             I noticed that too. - (Andrew Grygus) - (43)
                 If an inverse relationship is already established - - (Ashton) - (42)
                     Why should it? Would you expect it to mention Voodoo? - (CRConrad) - (41)
                         Here, have some red meat - - (Ashton) - (40)
                             Recommended Reading - (pwhysall) - (39)
                                 why are you forced to vaccinate yer kids then? - (boxley) - (3)
                                     Completely different, Bill. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                         gwan ya think? By the by chicken blood by a voodoo priestess - (boxley) - (1)
                                             Your scepticism is refreshing - (pwhysall)
                                 I have a response prepared - (Lily) - (34)
                                     I can save you time! - (pwhysall) - (26)
                                         Oohh___I Loves didactic Certainty.. - (Ashton) - (25)
                                             he is a brit who drives a beemer - (boxley) - (1)
                                                 What's your point? - (pwhysall)
                                             Whatever. - (pwhysall) - (22)
                                                 Wait a minute - (Lily) - (21)
                                                     Leading edges and off the edge - (rcareaga) - (8)
                                                         'to the extent we desire Nature to yield reliable results' - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
                                                             WHAT??? - (rcareaga) - (4)
                                                                 You go to whoever's appropriate to your problem. - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                                                                     OK, sure - (rcareaga) - (2)
                                                                         Well, say you had some emotional issues or. . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                                             As to Astrologers, Homeo - swan song, for here (new thread) - (Ashton)
                                                         Western medicine. (new thread) - (Lily)
                                                         Blood thirsty HMOs (new thread) - (Lily)
                                                     Re: Wait a minute - (pwhysall) - (11)
                                                         But the impetus behind all these things was illogical. -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (9)
                                                             So what? - (pwhysall) - (8)
                                                                 So what? With just logic you get nowhere. -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (7)
                                                                     Demonstrably wrong. - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                                                         You're pointing to the how - not the why. -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
                                                                             Indeed I am. -NT - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                                                 Hows can be exicuted with complete logic . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                                                                                     I never argued otherwise. -NT - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                                                                         And carefully kept your argument shallow . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                                                             What contradiction? - (pwhysall)
                                                         You know- - (Lily)
                                     Crystals aren't mysterous. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                         Crystals have their secrets too. - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                                             Link? - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                                 Re: Link? - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                     A related history is here. - (Another Scott)
                                     Tao of Physics? - (warmachine) - (1)
                                         Re: Tao of Physics? - (Lily)

I agree with everything you said except "lol".
77 ms