Post #278,460
3/16/07 2:16:46 PM
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Jesus' tomb and Darwin's God
Did anyone watch the film on the Discovery Channel? It created quite a bit of flaming on a Time blog, and others I am sure, but I didn't watch it. I was more interested in the article on nytimes.com, that came out at the same time as the movie, on the research into man's need to understand the supernatural. I haven't read much about this particular research, so did anyone read it and what did you think?
Seamus
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Post #278,517
3/16/07 7:37:10 PM
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Missed it.
The chance of it being genuine is so remote, and the hype about it was so overblown, I didn't even consider it. I didn't like Titanic, either. ;-)
There are several stories on [link|http://google.nationalgeographic.com/search?site=ngnews&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&q=jesus&btnG=Go|National Geographic] about it and the previous claims about Jesus's brother James's box.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #278,520
3/16/07 8:00:26 PM
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I saw it
I was hoping for a good conspiracy but it didnt deliver. They find a tomb with a bunch of biblical names and decide, based on probability, that the tomb was none other than that of Jesus Christ, his wife, his mother, his kid, his brother and some others. I wanted to buy into it. I really did. But I couldnt.
And for the record, I loved the Titanic. It's a chick thing.
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Post #278,526
3/16/07 8:13:50 PM
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One of the inscriptions is in dispute.
Opinion of one expert is it isn't "Mary Magdalene" but two names inscribed at different times, Mary and Maud. Other statisticians have strongly questioned the assumptions on which the probabilities were calculated.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #278,541
3/16/07 10:51:06 PM
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I bet they all made dough, though.
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Post #278,547
3/16/07 11:15:05 PM
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Did you watch the "discussion" afterwards?
Egads, the "filmmaker/journalist" spoke right over the 6 other "industry" experts.
The things he wanted to get out in the open, have been brought out in the open numerous times in the past 200 years.
It still doesn't change many of the things. The mere fact he only portrayed one particular set of "possibilities" gave many the feeling he has already made up his mind.
The worst possible thnig he did after the "show" was to talk over the archs that were actually "agreeing" with him on certain points.
He has made more critics in his own area of expertise than any amount of "good" it did in the public, trying to get an "outcry".
He also has made some other "films/documentary" projects... problems is he makes quite a few leaps in the similar way he did in the "Tomb of Jesus".
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #278,549
3/16/07 11:21:48 PM
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Exodus Decoded was another one . . .
. . based on highly selective use of "facts" and carefully trimming quotes from experts so they seemed to support the film's thesis when in actuality they did not.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #278,551
3/16/07 11:33:20 PM
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With the big...
Timer cogs? or some such crap.
Yeah, that was crap.
But I do have to say, he can make a convincing "film".
I've read that some of the reasons he was asked to "leave" is because of his "air of exception" to law and pushing far past the point of tolerance... especially in areas that are considered sensitive for Israel and Muslim and Islam and others
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #278,580
3/17/07 10:09:16 AM
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I didn't watch any of it
I don't have cable, the only tv I have is an hd antenna and tuner for a pc.
From the little bit I read I thought it was a bit of a red herring. I am not religous and I think of the bible as mythical. Not that that is bad, but mythical in the sense of setting very high standards for the type of people we should be.
I am more interested in where the need for religion comes from. I was hoping some of you had read the nytimes article on Darwin's God that talked about the role of genetics in the need for God.
Seamus
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Post #278,581
3/17/07 10:40:57 AM
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Missed that, too.
The article isn't free on the Times any more.
[link|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060930497/ref=ed_oe_p/002-7842890-7421651|Amazon]. I haven't read the book, but from the description it sounds as if he's trying to square a circle. That's fine - I understand why people try to do that (I did so at one time myself). But I don't think it works. Once one recognizes [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance|congnitive dissonance] in one's fundamental beliefs, it's hard to go back.
As for where the need for religion comes from, I think it goes back a long time. We each need to feel special, we each want to try to understand a world that is confusing and scary and mysterious, and we each want to feel safe. People naturally believe what their parents tell them about how the world works. I assume religion arose from these things. Whether it's honoring ancestors and tradition, or believing in spaceships hiding behind comets, I think the same processes are involved. I don't know if I believe that there's an innate center in the brain that is specifically tuned to belief in a God as opposed to these other things.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #278,648
3/18/07 4:08:33 AM
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Talk to a psychologist.
Especially one who's been one for some little while. They will tell you (or should tell you) that a lot of people want to "know what's going on", to answer big questions about where their life is going and what they're here on Earth for. The sort of things Religion has had a go at filling for centuries.
Wade, who personally had that kind of exchange only recently.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
|
-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #278,654
3/18/07 6:49:24 AM
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But is it genetic?
That is the question that I find interesting. Is there an advantage to the need to understand, or least have an explanation for, the supernatural that was advantageous for humans? Was there a gene, or genes, resonpsible for this behavior?
Seamus
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Post #278,657
3/18/07 7:40:02 AM
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It was/is advantageous to some.
Consider the accumulation of power and wealth that has occurred with churches of all faiths. Clear advantage. Whether that translates into a genetic imperative, I dunno.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
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Post #278,668
3/18/07 9:56:37 AM
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It it is genetic
Going out on a limb, if it is genetic it goes back to the beginning of man, before religion and churches, to man's first attempts to understand the world around him.
Anyway, the nytimes article was very interesting and while it has been archived, it seems to be accessible here:
[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/magazine/04evolution.t.html?ei=5090&en=43cfb46824423cea&ex=1330664400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all|http://www.nytimes.c...ss&pagewanted=all]
"Which is the better biological explanation for a belief in God \ufffd evolutionary adaptation or neurological accident? Is there something about the cognitive functioning of humans that makes us receptive to belief in a supernatural deity? And if scientists are able to explain God, what then? Is explaining religion the same thing as explaining it away? Are the nonbelievers right, and is religion at its core an empty undertaking, a misdirection, a vestigial artifact of a primitive mind? Or are the believers right, and does the fact that we have the mental capacities for discerning God suggest that it was God who put them there?
In short, are we hard-wired to believe in God? And if we are, how and why did that happen?"
Seamus
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Post #278,677
3/18/07 11:19:48 AM
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think about it, do chimps sit around discussing imagination?
or do they exist for eating crapping sleeping and sex?
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #278,681
3/18/07 11:27:41 AM
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what do chimps think about
Just because there communications skills are not as advanced as ours, does it mean they don't think about where they came from?
Seamus
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Post #278,691
3/18/07 12:12:48 PM
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nope, spent a pleasant hour with npr while a english major
explained that chimps in fact do not.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #278,699
3/18/07 1:02:03 PM
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I wasn't expecting an answer
But, then what do chimps have to do with a question about human genetics? If it is genetic it happened after the evolutionary split.
Seamus
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Post #278,766
3/18/07 9:47:24 PM
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what evolutionary split? :-)
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #278,767
3/18/07 10:15:02 PM
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A better question might be, What does Ballmer think about?
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/18/AR2007031801130_pf.html|Washington Post]: Monday, March 19, 2007; A06
When Emory University primatologist Frans de Waal read a news story that said Microsoft's chief executive, Steve Ballmer, had hurled a chair across the room on hearing an employee was going to work for rival Google, the scientist immediately made a connection with his own research: "When I see such behavior, I think of a chimpanzee."
Another time, a researcher that de Waal knew told him that whenever she chatted with another scientist in the hallway, her boss would get upset. He would later drop by her office and tell her she ought to stay clear of that person.
"He was constantly interfering whenever she had a contact with an important person," de Waal said. "Chimpanzees also divide and rule. You have an alpha male, and he will try to keep his supporters away from his rivals. His supporters are in trouble if they groom one of his rivals."
[...]
Over the past two centuries, people have had to disabuse themselves about various ideologies asserting that humans are fundamentally different from other animals. Biologists have shown that our arms and legs and organs have long evolutionary histories. Beliefs about the uniqueness of human behavior might well be the last bastion of our superiority complex, but research by de Waal and many others suggests that even this redoubt may be crumbling.
"I have done studies of reconciliation and coalition strategies in chimpanzees," de Waal said. "Business managers tell me that reminds them so much of what people do."
[...] I assume boxley's comment is about the same researcher, but I didn't hear it so I don't know for sure. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #278,694
3/18/07 12:37:38 PM
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We are God
We create our own subjective realities.
God. Karma. Chi. Qi. Chakras. The Holy Spirit. Quantum physics. All the same thing. That good old universal metaphysical energy that connects us all and molds our realities.
God is there if we create him.
Chew on that for awhile.
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Post #278,700
3/18/07 1:04:20 PM
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We create our own God
But did we do so because we have a genetic need to explain the supernatural? Or is a result of civilization or some other factor?
Seamus
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Post #278,704
3/18/07 1:18:47 PM
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No. We create are own reality.
I've created my own subjective reality. My consciousness is the creator. Consciousness is God. You only exist because I perceive you to be there. I created YOU.
It has nothing to do with genetics or culture or the supernatural.
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Post #278,706
3/18/07 1:38:11 PM
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My reality involves...
...lots of college basketball at the moment. And if I really do posses god like qualities, Texas and Texas A&M will be in the final four!
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Post #278,707
3/18/07 1:42:47 PM
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If you think it, it will come.
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Post #278,754
3/18/07 8:26:39 PM
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Think of me often then, please.
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Post #278,757
3/18/07 8:52:07 PM
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<phantom type="opera">Think of me softly ...</phantom>
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #278,772
3/18/07 10:43:48 PM
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Will do
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Post #278,761
3/18/07 9:08:52 PM
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God help us all...
...sayeth the New Messican!
;-)
jb4
"It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment."
— George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
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Post #278,768
3/18/07 10:27:38 PM
3/18/07 10:28:29 PM
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Depends on the state of your Thetans.
[link|http://www.firstchurchofxenu.com/|http://www.firstchurchofxenu.com/]
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
| |
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
Edited by imric
March 18, 2007, 10:28:29 PM EDT
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Post #278,708
3/18/07 2:08:03 PM
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So I get to send my complaints to you?
Do you prefer to see them here? email? fax? Or are you going to read my mind?
Seamus
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Post #278,716
3/18/07 2:44:24 PM
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Well, let's think this through.
In a true subjective reality model, you dont exist, so therefore you have no mind for me to read. For the sake of argument let's pretend you do exist and I am a manifestation of YOUR thoughts and consciousness. I am whoever you want me to be. If you want to worship me I will be happy to be worshiped. And being the control freak that I am, the thought of being Queen of the Universe in your reality is a wet dream come true.
The complaint department is open.
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Post #278,718
3/18/07 2:57:03 PM
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Is this all there is?
I make you the queen of my reality and you get a wet dream. What do I get out of it?
Seamus
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Post #278,725
3/18/07 3:29:50 PM
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Isnt that enough?
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Post #278,726
3/18/07 3:42:34 PM
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What if it isn't?
Seamus
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Post #278,734
3/18/07 4:26:40 PM
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It works for me.
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Post #278,737
3/18/07 4:37:58 PM
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Guess I will have to make it work for me!
Seamus
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Post #278,773
3/18/07 10:45:08 PM
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It's good to be queen.
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Post #278,881
3/19/07 11:13:33 PM
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By Jove, I think.. I think..
She's Got it.
{scratch scratch}
But since ...
[When Rama, seated on the lily pad, opens eyes: a Universe appears]
[Closes eyes: a Universe disappears]
..strongly implying that [each of 'us' fanciful musings] be no more than Rama's Dreamstate creations..
Well, then - -
[In the words of YAN sage, a modern one: "I was never born.. how then, can I 'die'?"]
..thus, while 'the unexamined life is not worth living' (to coin a phrase)
Let us then heed Meher Baba, who was fond of saying, Dont Worry.. Be Happy!
Let us liquidate some local cathedral, use the proceeds to buy a yellow Ferrari 350 Convertible and ... kick some ass!
ie
living in an illusion, bunky? Make lemonade.
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Post #278,886
3/19/07 11:28:00 PM
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But . . but . . but . . .
. . but Ferraris are supposed to be red - you heretic!
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #278,890
3/19/07 11:47:42 PM
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Easy: contrarian Ferrari owners give good head ;^>
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Post #278,916
3/20/07 9:15:12 AM
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Yep. It's my new philosphy
Groovy, isnt it?
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Post #278,705
3/18/07 1:18:53 PM
3/18/07 1:19:33 PM
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Dupe. Ignore. Fast fingers.
Edited by bionerd
March 18, 2007, 01:19:33 PM EDT
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Post #278,784
3/19/07 1:57:48 AM
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I've killed mine - as an example to the rest of you
I4 NOW!
Impeach, Indict, Incarcerate, Inject
Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice
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Post #278,796
3/19/07 6:28:24 AM
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Maybe that's why you're so cranky
Go on. Get a God. You know you wanna.
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Post #278,872
3/19/07 10:46:23 PM
3/19/07 10:52:29 PM
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If you meet the Buddha on the way, kill him.
I4 NOW!
Impeach, Indict, Incarcerate, Inject
Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice
|
Post #278,874
3/19/07 10:59:59 PM
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No way, man
I like Buddha. You introduced me to him, if you recall.
Buddha..Jesus..who else is on your hit list?
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Post #278,876
3/19/07 11:03:06 PM
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Sigh - its a koan
[link|http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ykillbud.htm|http://www.globalser...arlo/Ykillbud.htm]
I4 NOW!
Impeach, Indict, Incarcerate, Inject
Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice
|
Post #278,878
3/19/07 11:04:41 PM
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Tricky
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Post #278,884
3/19/07 11:17:55 PM
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OT: a most succinct, apt, saucy sig, se\ufffdor. Count me in..
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Post #278,711
3/18/07 2:14:11 PM
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Which genes do that, then?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
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Post #278,721
3/18/07 3:09:42 PM
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It is just one theory
But it is an interesting theory to me. Were you able to read the article?
Seamus
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Post #278,659
3/18/07 8:03:57 AM
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I don't know.
It wasn't part of the conversation I had.
However, I have heard or read something in the last few months that suggested it might be, but I would have no idea where it was. I can barely remember what it was, although I remember the suggested result was nebulous as it came out of a quite different study. I think it also surprised the researchers.
I've seen people argue that it's not genetic but there's something in 'what we are' that makes us tend to be like that. Perhaps it's something to do with sapience. Or perhaps our desire to tell stories. Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart (co-authors of the Science of Discworld books) seem to think so and make some good arguments for this. It seems to be part of our ability to think at different levels of abstraction, such as how we can use a knife without having to think about how the edge of the blade can cut the meat. But they way they explain it, we use this at a considerably more sophisticated level to convey knowledge in a method they call 'lies-to-'. A really good example is Newtonian physics which are good enough for a lot of engineering, but are actually not the whole story. And when the story breaks down, we have Relativity or Quantum Physics to explain things.
This story-telling desire, coupled with a human desire to find out what makes things tick can not only encourage hard science, but also many other things, such as creative accounting or a better breakfast cereal. Or theology.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
|
-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
|
Post #278,662
3/18/07 9:03:33 AM
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Not sure if this addresses it, but
The tendency to ascribe intelligent activity to non-intelligent natural phenomenon is pretty universal, which then leads to the birth of gods in our minds.
This is supposedly a survival mechanism. If the caveman saw the bushes blowing in the breeze, he could assume it is either a bear about to eat him or nothing to worry about. Those that always worried about the bear would survive, even at the cost of running scared from the wind 99% of the time. Those that did'nt worry saved energy but were eventually all eaten.
Which in turn created the ability for us to feel "spooked", when we saw swirling leaves. Now we KNOW is is just the wind, but a piece of us isn't sure. And at that point we go: Hmm - maybe is is my dead ancestor/loved one/enemy/god of wind.
And then gods are born.
Next step is to convince others, and then in a bit you have a religion.
There was a pretty good article on this a couple of weeks ago, which I'm too lazy to google up right now - got to head out the door.
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Post #278,712
3/18/07 2:19:17 PM
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I would think not.
I had a history professor some 35+- years ago who spent some weeks on the subject. I found it interesting so I still remember the basics of his argument. I don't have all the data that he presented to support his thesis but the fundamentals go like this:
Religion is a development of civilization. There is no common belief system until you have large numbers of people who interact with each other. Nomads and hunter-gathers and such have beliefs but don't formalize it because everything is based on their own experience.
Civilization always begins at river deltas because that is where the best soil gathers and it is easier to generate good crops. Once people start taking ownership and responsibility for food sources you have the basis for a civilization.
Leaders emerge, usually because they can make everybody else believe that they are more likely to be correct than them. In an agrarian society, knowing the flood times of the river are critical. The brighter leaders, who can predict the flood schedule, can also make guesses on other things with some authority. At this point it is good to have a god. The god only talks directly to the leader and is the authority behind the guesses. This means that the leader doesn't have to explain a lot or convince the sheeple. God said it, I believe it, you do it. Now comes the fun part...
If you have a river like the Tigris-Euphrates, which has an erratic flooding schedule, the god(s) CAN'T be wrong; they're pissed off because the sheeple did something wrong. You end up with an angry, vengeful deity with no sense of humor whatsoever. If you have a river like the Nile, where you can set your watch on the flood times, you end up with fairly non-hostile animistic gods. Vagaries of nature are just whimsy of the deities. In the long run, the god(s) are just an authority figure that can be used as a control mechanism. In societies where other control mechanisms are stronger, gods tend to be less defined and powerful. They are still a good black box way for people to explain things that don't make normal sense to them.
That is a very rough overview of his thesis. He presented a lot of data on expansion of civilization and related it back to human behavior patterns. I found it both interesting and persuasive. YMMV.
The profs name was Dr. Faust. He was a lawyer who was clobbered in the McCarthy era, who subsequently went back to get a doctorate in history. Interesting guy. One of my favorite professors.
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Post #278,715
3/18/07 2:41:31 PM
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Faust!
He must have gotten a lot of grief for that name! :-)
Thanks for the summary. It makes great sense to me.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #278,735
3/18/07 4:28:29 PM
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That's why I included his name
At the time, I found it kinda ironic that somebody with his handle would have an agnostic view of religion, but declined to mention it to him...
Very interesting guy. Google turns up nothing on him. I am saddened to think he may have just faded away. Even if he was wrong, he made students think and open horizons.
On the other paw, how many people can say that Dr. Faust was one of their favorite professors? If nothing else, it's good for parties and the internet...
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Post #278,896
3/20/07 12:36:22 AM
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Love. It.
And congrats for a decently scanning retelling, of an obviously Interesting prof's thesis.
Heh - it is said that the 'mind' works entirely on 'associations' | metaphor
(including.. All the senses - even and maybe even, especially - that of smell.)
(Early experiences, later vividly recalled: Prove that last..)
Delta:
rich, loamy, earthy environs
[-] Excluded: math, as in 'change' ~ dV/dt - only geeky insubstantial thought, there!
The Delta of Venus
-- Anais Nin
nuff said
{chortle}
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Post #278,731
3/18/07 4:14:03 PM
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This seems to be about how religions spread
Even if you don't have religions till large groups of people amass, what happens to the small groups of people? Do you not think about the supernatural? If they do, what does that mean?
It doesn't appear to address the issue of whether there is a human need for religion that is genetic.
Seamus
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Post #278,738
3/18/07 4:44:26 PM
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That's the qualification
If you have small groups of people that don't interact with others, they will have limited or nil religions. If they interact with other groups (think tribes) then you still have a larger population, albeit disbursed.
As long as you have intelligent beings, there will be speculation about the unknown. Only when there is a leadership structure, is there a need to have a pat answer to explain the ineffable. The easiest answer is a black box. Historically, the box is called $deity.
I don't think it any more genetic than general human nature. Which is kind of like saying herd animals tend to herd. It's just a tool. The Chinese had warlords; hundreds of gods, but who cared? Pray to the kitchen god, but watch out for the warlord. Different values based on the most likely way to survive.
Just my 0.02
Hugh
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Post #278,557
3/17/07 6:15:48 AM
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It wasn't the shocker they were predicting.
I think it's telling that people like my own pastor - i.e. a person who's spent some years at theological college - already had an answer. Namely: most people do not understand just how common those names were. It would be like finding a John Smith in England, or a Mohammed in Arabia.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
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Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
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-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #278,579
3/17/07 10:00:27 AM
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If it were the real-deal
The Catholic Church would've been all over it like ugly on an ape. There would have been no documentary. No debates. Those ossuaries wouldve been scooped up and hidden in the Vatican vault so fast it would make your head spin. No way would the church allow the public to hear something that threatens their existence and power. He's a sneaky fellow, the Pope.
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Post #278,603
3/17/07 1:20:54 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #278602 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=278602|ICLRPD]
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
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Post #278,893
3/20/07 12:12:09 AM
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Oh, Indeed!
The Patent\ufffd on The Mystery is worth more than all the gold (no longer in..) Fort Knox. And Gold == Power, among primitives. And primitives we live amongst!
Why.. I think this deserves a .. a
Brevity Award
with Purple Oak-Leaf Cluster
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Post #278,906
3/20/07 8:29:30 AM
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The DaVinci Code
If the EvulChurch really had that much power, I don't think this book/movie would have seen the light of day. The Vatican isn't what it used to be.
Smile,
Amy
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Post #278,915
3/20/07 9:14:14 AM
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Yabut
That book was cleverly marketed as a work of fiction. The Pope and crew squawked a little bit. What else could they do when Dan Brown says he made the whole thing up? The Jesus Tomb crew marketed their film as a documentary, which poses much more of a threat. If it had a leg to stand on, the Church would be all over it.
True, the Vatican isnt what it used to be. There hasnt been a good old fashioned inquisition in a long time. But dont let that fool you. Constant Vigilance!!
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Post #278,610
3/17/07 4:14:45 PM
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Show me the Zombie
If Jesus gets up out of that tomb and starts doing miracles *without* any commercial endorsement (a miracle right there), then I'll believe they found it.
-----------------------------------------
Draft Clark [link|http://draftwesleyclark.com/|now].
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Post #279,618
3/26/07 3:02:10 PM
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If Jesus gets up.
I will never cease to be amazed at how much modern thought is influenced by a few books on gods and demons written by people who thought the world flat. This is the 21st century, right? We have given up on the idea that the flat earth is the center of the Universe, right? We don't still believe in ghosts, do we? And most of us, please let it be so, most of us have given up on the notion of a "God in man's image" yes? It is all so s-t-u-n-n-i-n-g.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #279,621
3/26/07 3:15:27 PM
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define ghost please
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #279,716
3/27/07 8:18:55 AM
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Life after death.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #279,724
3/27/07 9:41:45 AM
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define death then
matter doesnt disappear it transforms.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #279,752
3/27/07 12:09:56 PM
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Cessation of electrical activity in the brain...
...as indicated on an EEG.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
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Post #279,755
3/27/07 12:27:49 PM
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thats not death thats transformation
elvis has left the building
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #279,775
3/27/07 1:48:05 PM
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Yes, it's death.
That, and people forgetting who you were.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
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Post #279,790
3/27/07 3:53:26 PM
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Nit.
Death is living in North East Indiana. Trust me. I have firsthand knowledge.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #279,639
3/26/07 4:47:21 PM
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Dude, I said "if".
I also thought the use of word "zombie" might have indicated the level of snark. Plus the ripoff of Jerry Maguire. A multilevel snark and you bemoan belief in noseeums.
I thought the reason no one had responded up till now was because it was a bad joke. Now I know it.
-----------------------------------------
Draft Clark [link|http://draftwesleyclark.com/|now].
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Post #279,715
3/27/07 8:18:26 AM
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Dude, I thought my comment was in line w/yours.
My impression is that your views concerning medieval superstitious nonsense are not dissimilar from mine.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #279,738
3/27/07 11:01:07 AM
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Probably similar.
Ghosts and goblins and other superstitions are entertaining at times in a well written story. Other than that, pretty much a big giant waste of time.
-----------------------------------------
Draft Clark [link|http://draftwesleyclark.com/|now].
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Post #279,643
3/26/07 6:03:14 PM
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I do
Believe in ghosts, that is.
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Post #279,701
3/27/07 1:49:18 AM
3/27/07 1:49:42 AM
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Ignore
Deleted
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
Edited by pwhysall
March 27, 2007, 01:49:42 AM EDT
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Post #279,703
3/27/07 1:49:58 AM
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Why do you believe in ghosts? (new thread)
Created as new thread #279702 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=279702|Why do you believe in ghosts?]
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
|
