I am not big on flying these days.

8/28/05 1:59:37 AM

8/28/05 2:01:51 AM

Me either!

Planes are dropping like flies.

And it's scaring me to death, because John flies out to San Diego Monday, for a business trip... never mind that I hate being alone already, and usually can't sleep if I'm alone, but he's going to FLY, and all they've done lately is crash and do other stupid things like blow out their tires on landing, drive off the ends of runways, and etc.

Fortunately he isn't flying on the airline that's striking, but none-the-less, I am going to be a nervous wreck on Monday until he's back on the ground, and again on Thursday when he comes home.

And I know, I know, more planes don't crash than do, but note the news never points all the ones out for you that got safely to their destination. And on top of all this, I'm taking him to the airport Monday, and on the dry run we had, it took me three tries to find my way in after all the changes since 9/11.

So these airplanes better behave till he's back home. (sigh). And I'm still trying to figure out how the ones in Greece FROZE in the fuselage... has anything definite been determined about that yet? That one was bizarre. They said it was either the decompression or a faulty A/C... can a faulty A/C really freeze people? Weird!

And that's my little bit of comfort too, that most of the crashes have all be foreign planes and not U.S. ones... so far anyway.

And yes, I know I sound paranoid.... sorry, but even though I love planes in one respect, (awesome to look at, neat to study, military planes are fascinating), I don't like flying, never will, never did, and would rather me and mine stay safely on the ground.

Brenda

P.S. And yes, I know cars have more accidents than planes... the difference for me is they have those accidents a lot closer to the ground, with higher chance for survival.

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Edited by Nightowl Aug. 28, 2005, 02:01:51 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,415

8/29/05 11:47:10 AM

There was going to be a comment here.

But then I realised you're not likely to respond to any facts, so I deleted it all.

The short version is: your diet and your car are much more likely to kill you, painfully, than any amount of flying.

Post #221,408

8/29/05 11:36:59 AM

Oh, for the love of...

bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell

Post #221,450

8/29/05 2:28:07 PM

You cant dispute that an unusually high number of

commercial aircraft have gone down in the past few months.

I didnt say I'm afraid to fly. But I am aware that aircraft fleets are getting older and more airlines are filing for bankruptcy. Every aspect of the airline industry is taking a financial hit. Flight crew are overworked and stress. Mechanics and engineers are disgruntled. If you dont think it's affecting aircraft maintenace and safety you're delusional.

Do I think flying is safer than driving? Of course. Statistically, I know I have a greater chance of getting in a car accident than a plane crash. But I also know I have a greater chance of surviving a car crash than a plane crash, and I have more control over the outcome in a car crash. And frankly, I like having that control.

And for someone who's spent the last 4 years responding to mass casualty aviation disasters, I think I have earned the right to not enjoy flying. Cut me some slack, Jack.

Post #221,454

8/29/05 2:51:59 PM

Yes, I can.

[link|http://www.planecrashinfo.com/more%20accidents%20lately.htm|http://www.planecras...ents%20lately.htm]

Post #221,458

8/29/05 3:01:42 PM

8/21/07 5:44:47 AM

Up 300% over last year

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:44:47 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,459

8/29/05 3:02:53 PM

Need to see number of flights.

Post #221,462

8/29/05 3:14:00 PM

Dunno without checking, but in the millions

Post #221,465

8/29/05 3:26:43 PM

Anecdotal is travel is up.

But I don't have firm stats, just what I've seen around airports - pilots called back, new pilot hires, etc.

Post #221,472

8/29/05 3:45:44 PM

8/21/07 5:45:18 AM

My answer made as much sense as that chart

Which was my point.

Which was missed.

By a lot.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:45:18 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,596

8/30/05 11:08:43 AM

I got it.

Post #221,461

8/29/05 3:13:40 PM

And the year before that?

The trend is down, Todd.

And, "300%"? I think you meant to type "up 2", in order to avoid using a deliberately hyperbolic percentage figure.

Post #221,590

8/30/05 10:56:43 AM

That chart

only mentions fatalities, not casualties. I guess spending a year in a burn unit doesnt count.

Post #221,592

8/30/05 11:01:09 AM

Noticed how "casualty" has morphed to mean "fatality"?

(Just an aside.)

Have you noticed how [link|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=casualty|casualty] has morphed recently to mean the same as [link|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fatality|fatality]? It's especially common in reporting on Iraq for the TV talking heads to use casualty when they mean fatality. It bugs me.

I'm glad you appreciate the distinction too.

Carry on. :-)

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #221,457

8/29/05 2:58:09 PM

Yes, I can. And you don't get any slack ...

when you post nonsense like that. "Unusually high number"? How did you arrive at that? How many total accidents this year? Last year at this time? Two years ago? Ten? The plain simple fact of the matter is that commercial air travel has gotten significantly more safe over the years. Not less safe as your post suggests.

But I am aware that aircraft fleets are getting older ...
And this impacts safety how exactly? Got any proof that the all glass panel fly-by-wire aircraft from Airbus are any better? (Aside: Great. Now Todd's gonna start ranting.)

I think I have earned the right to not enjoy flying.
I never suggested anyone was required to "earn a right to not enjoy flying." I've got family members who are terrified to fly. As far as "not enjoying flying" goes, we might have some common ground here. I, too, dislike flying commercial. It used to be a quite pleasant experience back when the airline industry was regulated, before the attitude that "the market knows all" infected the business of aviation. (Aside: Any righties out there wanna still contend that de-regulation is good for competition? How many airline companies are left?). Today commercial air travel is a horror show of idiocy.

Post #221,460

8/29/05 3:03:33 PM

8/21/07 5:44:50 AM

Plane age does figure into it

Metal fatigue, corrosion, higher proportion of components on the far side of the MTBF.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:44:50 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,463

8/29/05 3:15:36 PM

In theory, I agree.

But I don't think, looking at ntsb.gov, that the age of the aircraft has much to do with airline accidents. If it did, I'd expect to see a lot more accidents with older aircraft, given they make up a larger share of what's flying every day than do newer aircraft.

Post #221,470

8/29/05 3:43:52 PM

8/21/07 5:45:15 AM

There *was* that air Hawaii flight where the roof peeled off

Salt water environment/corrosion/metal fatigue was blamed I think.

I believe it resulted in heavier weight being given to "cycles" in maintenance schedules.

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:45:15 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,477

8/29/05 4:16:20 PM

Yeah, and then there was this.

[link|http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w011112.htm|http://www.planecras...o.com/w011112.htm]

I understand that age is a factor, I'm just saying that I think age of aircraft is overplayed.

Post #221,474

8/29/05 3:51:43 PM

Um...

Mike writes:

Any righties out there wanna still contend that de-regulation is good for competition? How many airline companies are left?

I'll play along. ;-)

[link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_deregulation|Wikipedia]:

Since 1938, the federal Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) had regulated all domestic air transport as a public utility, setting fares, routes, and schedules. The CAB promoted air travel, for instance by generally attempting to hold fares down in the short-haul market, to be subsidized by higher fares in the long-haul market. The CAB was also obliged to ensure that the airlines had a reasonable rate of return.

It also earned a reputation for bureaucratic complacency; airlines were subject to lengthy delays when applying for new routes or fare changes, which were not often approved. World Airways applied to begin a low-fare New York City to Los Angeles route in 1967; the CAB studied the request for over six years only to dismiss it because the record was "stale." Continental Airlines began service between Denver and San Diego after eight years only because a U.S. Court of Appeals ordered the CAB to approve the application.

This rigid system encountered tremendous pressure in the 1970s. The 1973 energy crisis and stagflation radically changed the economic environment, as did technological advances such as the jumbo jet. Most of the major airlines, whose profits were virtually guaranteed, favored the system. But passengers forced to pay escalating fares did not, nor communities which subsidized air service at ever-dearer rates. Congress became concerned that air transport in the long run might follow the nation's railroads into trouble; in 1970 the Penn Central railroad had collapsed in what was then the largest bankruptcy in history, resulting in a massive taxpayer bailout in 1976.

In 1975 the United States Senate Judiciary Committee began hearings on airline deregulation; it was deemed a friendlier forum than the more appropriate place, the Aviation Subcommittee of the Commerce Committee. Airlines' dire predictions of a post-deregulation world were mitigated by the experience of thriving unregulated intrastate carriers such as PSA and Southwest Airlines and by the successful deregulation of air cargo in 1977.

In 1977, President Jimmy Carter appointed Alfred E. Kahn, a professor of economics at Cornell University, to be chair of the CAB. He would be the last, and earn the moniker "father of airline deregulation." Kahn argued that rather than sustain air travel, the CAB in fact acted to inhibit growth and encourage inefficient practices. He argued that removing regulation would help foster a new, efficient equilibrium of price, quantity, and quality of air service; that long-haul fares would decline, barriers to entry for new airlines would drop, and airlines could effectively deploy different aircraft for different roles (e.g. turboprops over jetliners in smaller markets).

Deregulation is a net good for consumers, but not for entrenched companies. It's also not an unqualified good in all respects.

The major airlines would be making money now if jet fuel hadn't increased in price tremendously over the last couple of years.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #221,480

by Ashton

8/29/05 4:28:47 PM

IF... the condition of Omnipresence. Slowww Learners R'us

Post #221,481

8/29/05 4:29:40 PM

8/29/05 4:31:25 PM

Heh.

He argued that removing regulation would help foster a new, efficient equilibrium of price, quantity, and quality of air service;

Really? We no longer have delays, we have "even pricing" (here's an example):

FWA TO LAX
American Airlines: $577
Northwest Airlines $577
Delta Air Lines: $587
Continental Airlines: $663

IND TO LAX
Northwest Airlines: $158
ATA: $168
American West Airlines: $217
American Airlines: $229
AirTran Airways: $259
Independence Air: $331
United Airlines: $368

[Edit: Error, we have 3 Class C's in Indiana, forgot South Bend]
Yep, 2 of the Class C Airports in Indiana serving the largest and second largest cities in the state. Dead even: $158 (Indy) to $577 (Fort Wayne).

And quantity and quality of service? You're joking, right?
The quality is self-explanatory as anyone who ever flew coach in 1969 and then had to fly coach in 2005 can attest. The quantity? Hmmmm.... Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, Western, etc. As I said, de-regulation really made things better wrt competition. Feh.

Edited by mmoffitt Aug. 29, 2005, 04:31:25 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,587

8/30/05 10:53:33 AM

good lord

If you think I have time to research this you're wrong. I offered an opinion. My opinion, based on my experiences and my knowledge of the industry. I do not claim to be an expert on the issue. I specialize in the human side of disasters, not the technical. I am not prepared to provide a dissertation, nor do I care to. I'll leave it to you to pull up websites if you're so inclined. (Because we all know every chart, every figure, every report, and everything published on the internet is well-researched and unequivocally true).

Carry on.

Post #221,625

8/30/05 1:02:36 PM

Re: good lord

I relate to that Laura. I don't propose to know every thing about every crash or every flight that didn't crash.

But the reason I know there were 5 flights in August that crashed in some fashion or another, was a) it was all over the news, and they were even stating there were 5 crashes in the space of one month, and b) I collect newspapers articles on most major plane crashes, and I haven't cut any in a long time, then suddenly there are 5 sets of clippings I have cut in the last batch of August papers.

It may be nonsense to some, to be afraid of flying, or even to be nervous about the fact that a loved one is flying, but the bottom line is the fears are very real to the person that has them, and that certainly isn't nonsense.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #221,645

8/30/05 2:10:10 PM

s/propose/purport/

Anyway. The point still stands. The assertion was made that there are a lot of plane crashes lately. The assertion was shown to be unfounded in fact.

Further, it was shown that air travel is very safe compared to your favoured mode of transport, the roving mobile people smasher AKA the car.

I'm not really interested in the happy-clappy-everyone's-a-snowflake-so-respect-my-neuroses bollocks, either

Post #221,658

by Ashton

8/30/05 3:05:06 PM

Neuroses?

Human thought is guaranteed aberrant; 'tis only fluid Custom du jour and prejudice which assigns 'sane' and ""normal"" to particular thoughts, as ever imperfectly expressed.

Human emotion -- hah, write something Accurate about That!
(to "3 significant figures", say?)

Life Itself is a neurotic distubance of the [1]nice statistical orderliness / randomness of Brownian movements (never mind the Peculiarity that, somehow -- there's more matter than antimatter. It seems.. so far...)
Else -

If the Universe didn't exist
(And if matter == antimatter; it Wouldn't)
It wouldn't be missed.

partial-\ufffdPiet Hein

HTH ie Pshaw.

[1] 'Nice' for the arithmetic- Chartered-accountant- obsessed, as in
..a foolish consistency ... hobgoblin .. small minds

Post #221,660

8/30/05 3:13:41 PM

Note that it's a *foolish* consistency.

Basic logical operation (i.e. to recognise that something is safer than something else) is hardly a "foolish" consistency.

Besides, Emerson was a bit of a prima donna. I don't think he was thinking of the likes of me and thee when he wrote that (achingly pretentious) quote.

Post #221,664

by Ashton

8/30/05 3:24:28 PM

Well.. methinks that the Great Ones were!

(thinking of me and thee)

Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments
Love is not love which alters where it alteration finds
or bends with the remover to remove. ...

The lesser-ones had their moments (as do we even-lesser) but mostly it seems - we are all on autopilot about 98.67% of the time. When's the last time you, I had a truly Original thought ?+?

Post #222,899

9/5/05 11:45:17 AM

Another crash (new thread)

Created as new thread #222898 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=222898|Another crash]

Post #221,413

8/29/05 11:41:43 AM

Utter nonsense.

They're not "dropping like flies" at all. There's been what? Half a dozen accidents in a three month period? How many absolutely uneventful flights took place in that time? And in the year before that?

If you want to be afraid of something, go look at the road traffic accident statistics and then get behind the wheel. Not reassuring is the fact that the American casualties are, per capita, something like 10x the UK rate, and that's not good to start with.

When you add up the crashes versus the millions of safe miles flown, the risk is minimal. I'd fly everywhere if I could.

All the vehicles at 30000 feet are being operated by professionals.

Post #221,418

8/29/05 11:50:00 AM

Wot 'e said.

Post #221,421

by imric

8/29/05 12:10:50 PM

Aye. I often point out

to nervous fliers that the ride to and from the airport is far more fraught with danger than the flight itself.

Especially here :-P

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #221,438

8/29/05 2:08:50 PM

Re: Aye. I often point out

to nervous fliers that the ride to and from the airport is far more fraught with danger than the flight itself.

I have to concur there. I managed to get John to the airport, I won't bore anyone with the nightmarish details of how we finally managed to get across to the East Terminal (nothing like it used to be, that's for sure), and how I almost didn't find my way back to the car, and the police had to escort me out to the road I wanted because I couldn't find my way out of the maze of parking tunnels and ramps and couldn't breathe.

I'm not a flier, nervous or otherwise. It isn't me I was worried about, it was John, and he's just landed in San Diego, so now I'm ok till he flies back Thursday.

And Thursday night, someone is going with me to get him. I'm not doing THAT alone again.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #221,517

8/29/05 7:09:16 PM

And you'd be wrong in that

IIRC (I probably don't, but the right number is just a detail), the breakeven point between driving and flying is about 200 miles. Shorter than that it is safer to drive. Farther than that it is safer to fly.

The reason for this is that while flying is a lot safer per mile, the two most dangerous moments during a flight are take-off and landing, which causes a somewhat constant risk, no matter how far the plane goes. By contrast driving tends to be somewhat dangerous for each and every mile driven. Thus a short drive is safer than a short flight, and a long drive is more dangerous than a long flight.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #221,518

by boxley

8/29/05 7:22:34 PM

dunno about safety but comfort factor is 500 miles

stop when I want to, take only 2 hrs longer by the time you factor in parking, security, slight delays and picking up a rental at the far end.
thanx,
bill

"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Post #221,595

8/30/05 11:05:23 AM

Not if you fly yourself ;0)

Post #221,624

8/30/05 12:59:00 PM

Re: Not if you fly yourself ;0)

That I have to agree with, because YOU know how the plane is, you know if it's in tip top shape and you are the one who sees it stays that way. Plus you are in control of the plane and you alone have the ability to handle anything that happens.

That's why I like cars better for the same reason. I know my car inside and out. I have it checked for the slightest abnormality, and I'm the one in control driving the car, not at the mercy of anyone else.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #221,659

by Steve Lowe

8/30/05 3:05:17 PM

False sense of security

I'm the one in control driving the car, not at the mercy of anyone else.

Except every one of the dozens of cars near you at any given moment. True that you could be in control of your car, but what about all the others?

--
Steve

Post #221,661

by Ashton

8/30/05 3:16:51 PM

Well.. occasionally planes manage to run into each other too

crap shoot.

One can do a lot to minimize the effects of the random droids in nearby cars. Attention! appears to me to be the single most Important quality for self-preservation (afer decent lore in the physics of it all).

Lose that to the cel, i-Pod, bored-daydreams, in-car prattle and,

I expect you to Die, Mr. Bond.

:-0

Post #221,744

8/30/05 10:41:31 PM

One can do even more in a small aircraft.

Ashton posits: "One can do a lot to minimize the effects of the random droids in nearby cars."

Attention, he rightly points out, is paramount. And that is the case when "driving" at 2 or 3,000 feet AGL. But up there we can also ask for "flight following" even when flying VFR and that can help ... some ... if ATC is not too busy ;0).

But, there is a lot more sky up there than there is the 4 feet or so between oncoming traffic on a 2 lane highway. All in all, I'll take my chances in the sky over those on the road any day when it comes to avoiding oncoming traffic.

Post #221,708

8/30/05 7:23:39 PM

8/30/05 7:26:56 PM

What do I do?

Except every one of the dozens of cars near you at any given moment. True that you could be in control of your car, but what about all the others?

I stay alert, don't use a cell phone (don't even have one), don't do anything but focus on my driving... therefore I have a better chance of spotting an accident about to happen (been there, done that), and of avoiding said accident, (done that too). I'm not stupid enough to believe I'm immortal, or ever completely safe, but I believe alertness and focus on what you're doing is the key to staying as safe as possible when operating any vehicle. :)

Brenda

Edit: P.S. Plus, anyone stupid enough to run into my car is likely to get a LOT more hurt and damaged than I ever would.... unless it was an 18-wheeler. A corvette once crashed into my rear bumper... there wasn't much of the corvette left. However, all my car had in the way of damage, was a tiny red scrape on the chrome. Period.

My dad, who drove a similar car for many years (A 1968 Dodge Polara), was rear-ended by a speeding ambulance on a highway offramp. The ambulance was totalled, my dad's car had large rubber protectors (I assume that's what they were), on his bumper... they were severely dented in. Other than that, no damage.

In other words... I drive a TANK. ;)

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Edited by Nightowl Aug. 30, 2005, 07:26:56 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,721

by Ashton

8/30/05 8:13:20 PM

Love. It. - poor/smart person's Hummer. Laugh --> bank.

Post #221,745

8/30/05 10:43:21 PM

Nit: maybe not the bank with gas nearly $3/gal.

Post #221,746

8/30/05 10:46:24 PM

Re: Nit: maybe not the bank with gas nearly $3/gal.

Yep, and a car that gets about 11 miles to the gallon...

Good thing I only drive her around a couple times a week. ;)

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #221,771

8/31/05 1:38:08 AM

I play a really small violin for thee

I'd love petrol to be $3 a gallon.

Post #221,787

8/31/05 7:58:34 AM

Pick some up when you pick up the London Bridge.

Of course, it may be $5 a gallon here by then (premium has been $3/gallon around here for a couple of weeks).

How much has the price over there increased over the last couple of years? It's roughly doubled here. Since much of the price in Europe is in taxes, I assume it hasn't doubled over there.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #221,788

8/31/05 8:01:01 AM

Up to \ufffd1/litre in places.

I filled up on Monday morning and paid 91p/litre.

That's $6.12 a gallon.

So shutyerwhinging.

Post #221,791

8/31/05 8:19:32 AM

Hey. I wasn't whynghyng. Twas a Q about the changes.

I would have expected it to be more.

Condolences.

My last fillup was Monday - $2.59/gal for diesel ($0.68/l). That was ~ $0.30 less than regular. Up until very recently diesel was more than regular, so it's a nice change (in that limited respect).

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #221,805

8/31/05 10:09:04 AM

Just wait.

If Venezuela carries out its threat to base oil on your Euro instead of the US Dollar (as I think Russia already does) and the other large oil producing countries follow suit, we'll be begging for $9/gal here.

Aside: Gas here went to $2.79 yesterday. Today a gas station owner I know warned me, "Just got a call from xxxx oil. They're telling us to go up 50 cents at noon, to $3.29. If you need gas, you'd better get it now."

Post #221,807

by boxley

8/31/05 10:23:18 AM

Atlanta has a 7 day supply left and pipelines are off

until further notice, oil compasnies are discussing raising the price to $3 per gal to cool demand, It has already jumped 22 cents since Katrina hit.
thanx,
bill

Post #221,819

by admin

8/31/05 11:27:24 AM

It's all about the local vacations now.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #221,832

8/31/05 11:56:16 AM

Detroit, here you come..

Post #221,862

8/31/05 12:59:07 PM

Moved early. As of 10am it's $3.29 here.

Post #222,096

by static

8/31/05 11:37:37 PM

I think Peter's got a point.

I'm used to thinking of Petrol in AU$ per litre. US$ per gallon simply doesn't mean anything to me. Around here, it's averaging AU$1.15/l. That's the highest Australia has ever had it - but it's been over AU$0.90/l for more than a year. That's ~US$0.88/l and US$0.69/l respectively.

Throughout the nearly 20 years I've been driving, the US has had cheaper petrol than much of the world. Often much cheaper, and always cheaper than Australia.* Not to wish you any hardship, but I personally think that US$6/gallon petrol might finally start bringing home to the J. Average US Consumer that oil is getting harder to find and like maybe we should stop using it up so fast!

Wade.

* And the UK has AFAIR had much more expensive petrol than Australia.

d-_-b

Post #222,098

by admin

8/31/05 11:44:01 PM

0.88 USD / Liter here now

$3.20/g on the sign I passed as I drove home, and I think Detroit prices are cheaper than other places by a good bit.

But yes, I agree with the rest of your points. But the problem is that since we *are* used to lower prices, huge increases like this tend to shock the economy badly.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #222,130

by static

9/1/05 12:59:32 AM

Yes, that's a problem.

d-_-b

Post #222,164

by folkert

9/1/05 9:38:26 AM

RE: Your .sig: Hey, how'd you make the Reversed "d"?

Err... oh... nevermind.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey
[image|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg||||]

Post #221,850

8/31/05 12:43:10 PM

But is your commute over 30 miles each way?

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #221,851

8/31/05 12:44:20 PM

What's that got to do with the zen of cucumbers?

Post #221,858

8/31/05 12:54:31 PM

economic pain = price*quantity

Your price is higher than mine, but my demand is higher than yours.

Yeah, yeah. My problem. I know. But it still affects my perspective.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #221,860

8/31/05 12:56:40 PM

That'd be your choice, then.

*hides*

Post #221,876

8/31/05 1:11:08 PM

8/31/05 1:12:35 PM

Yes, it would. As I said up front.

The alternatives were that my wife could have the commute, I could change my job or my wife could give up her residency.

So far I want to stay in a job I'm happy with, and I'm willing to face the commute for it.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Edited by ben_tilly Aug. 31, 2005, 01:12:35 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,912

by Ashton

8/31/05 3:17:52 PM

Any remote chance: a ride-pool sorta thing, given 'hours' ?

Post #222,122

9/1/05 12:33:50 AM

Nope. I have odd hours. And they move a lot.

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #221,861

8/31/05 12:57:44 PM

Mine's 57 miles each way.

Funny thing is, now auto gas is higher than Avgas - I know, I know, just wait.

Post #221,993

by jb4

8/31/05 6:10:21 PM

Gocha beat...63 miles each way

And Chicago has the highest gas prices in the nation, according to a AAA survey.

Merry Christmas, Big Oil fatasses! Please try to clean up your jizz before you leave....

jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

Post #222,006

8/31/05 6:45:15 PM

8/21/07 6:01:32 AM

I'd say both of you ought to consider relocation

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:01:32 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #222,190

9/1/05 11:28:17 AM

Heh.

We just built a house up at the a in 2000 to get out of Fort Wayne. I'm not complaining about the price of gas. We could sell the dream house my wife and I worked and saved for almost 20 years or I could keep it and jack ever increasing amounts of cash up the arses of families like the Bushes and the Cheneys. I am aware that those are my choices. ;0)

Post #222,324

by jb4

9/1/05 6:29:09 PM

In this housing market,

you don't just up and leave. But relocation was in the cards...however, now that the scratch needed to fix up the place to seel it is going out the tailpipe...

Post #222,050

by bepatient

8/31/05 8:58:36 PM

Pshaw

98 miles each way.

I am telecommuting 2 or 3 days per week now. However, I drove every day of July and first half of August.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition}

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

Post #222,055

by Ashton

8/31/05 9:21:53 PM

Wanna borrow my cycle?

Long pickup, but - ~53 mpg if kept under 75ish.
(Besides, you'll Love It and then we can deal..)

'81 KZ-550 DOHC-4 mint + trick floating-iron Grimeka f.brake = 2 fingers for squealie wheels.
Impossibly lo-miles, etc.
(One o'those corner office guys with a free hold in a Gulfstream?)

Post #222,214

by bepatient

9/1/05 12:55:07 PM

I've been thinking along those lines

Looking into 40+ mpg cars and realizing that I could go 50+ on 2 wheels.

Problem is it is all very large NJ highways and not necessarily the safest place to be without doors and bumpers.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition}

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

Post #222,221

by imric

9/1/05 1:07:29 PM

I had fewer problems on TPK and GSP

than local roads and streets.

A ride that long would suck in the rain, almost any time in the winter, and any time traffic got snarled.

That being said, there's nothing like riding; it beats the hell out of driving. You'd love it!

[link|http://www.runningworks.com|

]

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #222,222

by Steve Lowe

9/1/05 1:08:05 PM

Just bought one

I just found an '81 Honda CX500 for $800. 18K miles on it, guy said he got about 55mpg with it. It's in the shop getting new front fork seals and a tune up right now.

--
Steve

Post #222,361

by Ashton

9/1/05 9:04:20 PM

Synchronicity!

Stopped by local Post Office after a town run.. parked next to a well-worn

CX-500.

Admit I hadn't thought much about a small V-twin, despite Loving the torque of the Vincent 55\ufffd V-twin / 1000 cc. Think I never rode a CX, and have rarely seen them on road.. could be a sleeper though, as in - smooth, reliable, decent handling (but just no Macho Waay-Too-Big pizzazz for Murican tastes.)

I perused it a bit before leaving - nice handily located teeny starter; typ Honda neatness in layout -- and in winter: a pair of handwarmers (one-at-a-time) strategically located.

Lucky you,

Ashton

Post #222,401

by Steve Lowe

9/1/05 11:48:09 PM

Rode it some tonight

I had the same thought re: handwarmers, convenient! It's a decent runner, and fairly nimble. Nothing like my former CB750F, VFR750 Interceptor, or Suzuki Katana 600, but that's not it's purpose. I wanted something with enough power to not be dangerous, yet small enough to be light on fuel demands. Unfortunately, though, it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can ride full time, I stupidly opted against renewing the M/C classification on my driver's license, so need to go through that process again.

--
Steve

Post #222,416

by Ashton

9/2/05 6:32:46 AM

Oh Yeah: Always renew!

You silly :-0

I've always held that ~250 - 350 cc was an optimum size for man- or woman-handling with maximum control; actually I mean ~280-330 #, whatever the displacement.
(A 350 cc Velocette was Nice - in 'coaster races' == engine off and just go down some nice 2-lane; see who has to use brakes First. A decent comparo of raw-manageability.)

And I traded-down, after getting "the first commercially produced 'Four Cylinder!'" - the CB-750. Beautifully smooth, just too much avoirdupois -- though of course, in a class way beyond the Harley Trucks of almost any jour; et 'em for lunch, including re mere comfort, along with the handling, decent brakes for the day.

Give us a report when you've had it down the twisties, y'hear?

Post #222,327

by jb4

9/1/05 6:30:54 PM

Not sure you'd wanna ride 2 wheels in a NJ winter...

I know for a fact I wouldn't in a Chicago/Milwaukee winter...!

Post #222,423

by hnick

9/2/05 7:35:52 AM

I did it one Cleveland winter

I was broke, living off campus up the hill in Cleveland Hts, and going to Case at the bottom of the hill. I'd show up for 8:00 class with a thermos of coffee, ice in my beard and moustache, and be shaking so hard I could barely pour the coffee. Ice patches on hills were also good for a little excitement too. The next winter I managed to get a cheapie car.
The good old days, eh?

Post #222,409

9/2/05 2:14:01 AM

So had a co-worker

She'd long said that if gas got to $3/gallon, she'd get a motorcycle.

I asked her about it today and she said that she'd been noticing a lot more dangerous drivers lately, and her life wasn't worth risking.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #221,772

8/31/05 1:48:49 AM

COAST

Concentration
Observation
Anticipation
Speed
Time

AKA "how to not die", and "how to try to drive like the best drivers in the world (i.e. UK Police Class One drivers)".

Don't be putting too much faith in your car's ability to protect you; without crumple zones, if you hit something harder than your car, much energy will be transmitted to the soft, squishy things inside. Ralph Nader called it "the second collision" in Unsafe At Any Speed.

Post #221,778

by Ashton

8/31/05 5:28:16 AM

That's GOOD!

Fangio would endorse that one.
(En Espa\ufffdol, natch)

Concentraci\ufffdn
Observaci\ufffdn
Anticipaci\ufffdn
Velocidad
Tiempo

Esos ingleses son m\ufffds elegantes que aparecen, dado ese compa\ufffdero de Sr. Blair.

Post #221,781

8/31/05 7:04:03 AM

8/31/05 7:38:38 AM

COAST in depth, by a UK trafpol from another forum:

OK! For the new guys and for those who need a little reminder.

C

CONCENTRATION (and it also means COURTESY AND CONSIDERATION)

I reckon concentration should be a relaxed concentration. By this I mean that if you consciously try to concentrate - you may be concentrating on what you perceive to be correct behaviour and not concentrating at all. It is the sort of concentration which you use when watching a good film - looking at the points of interest and the nuances of the plot. It is a bout leaving the worries of what to have for tea or the argument with the boss or the wife or the best pal behind and focusing on the drive and the road ahead - watching the road furniture "tell you a story of what to expect ahead".

It is about not getting carried away by your CD player playing "Born to be Wild" - loudly!

It is about refraining from eating apples whilst driving, reading maps, and arguing with passengers or on the hands free set whilst driving.

Consideration is about being understanding: the person may have just passed the test or be new to the area.

It is about accepting people do make errors and not getting worked up about it. It is about dealing with it - safely.

O

OBSERVATION

This means what it says - use sight, ears and smell.

You need to scan systematically. The road paint on the road tells you about the hazards to expect (Check out "Know Your Road Signs!" (DSA publication).

It means using mirrors. and constantly adjusting your driving.

It means looking at the road layout - continuously assessing the moving point and the limit point on the road as it unfolds ahead of you.

It means observing other traffic: the ball under the parked car, the potential chap who may open the door or just set off without the life saver glance over his shoulder (and again this applies to cyclists as they are the ones who get caught the most by this numpty error )

It means positioning for view. Positioning for view depends on circumstances at the time -but you need to ensure you can observe the antics of the driver at least two cars ahead of you!

It means keeping eyes moving and using peripheral vision.

It means being aware of that line of persons at a bus stop means bus is around here somwhere.

It means using every means of observation at your disposal.

Smell of cut grass? Council workers on the loose.

A

ANTICIPATION

More time you have to react to a hazard - the better.

It is based on your observations. Their behaviour, position, head , hand and general progress all give you clues. Never assume they will behave as you do.

Once you have observed and anticpated - you then have to plan - take control of the situation. react to the hazards ahead and defend yourself. Because "PLAN" is so difficult to define we split this as follows:

S

SPACE

This is the two second rule. You give space to the tailgater and increase your space for reactions.

It means adjusting speed to the safest one for the conditions ahead. It means reacting to what might reasonably be expected to happen and you are responding to what can be seen and what cannot be seen

It is about dropping your speed so that you can see what is happening 2- 3 vehicles ahead of you.

T

TIME

Time is linked to the above. Only a fool breaks the two second rule! It is your two second gap. It is the time you allowed for your journey. It is the time you allow for other road users in your planning and decisions based on the above OAP per "ROADCRAFT"

There are lots of variations of COAST - but these are the main ones.

I cannot stress its importance enough - and this little word forms the basis of DIS and Speed Aware courses where offered. It is a part of my training as well - and we do include elements of it in our lectures to naughty-ish drivers here.

It should have more prominence on the Partnership sites - especially thos which offer Speed Awares as alternative to points. It could help improve standards after all. It appears to work here -but then it is delivered on the spot by slightly amused BiBs.

I cannot think of a single reason why one would have any reason to not try to apply the above when driving on the public roads.

Edit: Removed the other-forum-specific bits. BTW, "BiB" is other-forum-ese for "Boys in Blue", an affectionate term for friendly PCs.

Edited by pwhysall Aug. 31, 2005, 07:38:38 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,916

by Ashton

8/31/05 3:41:18 PM

Saved for distribution.

Reminds of various discussions in the VOC (Vincent Owner's Club) of yesteryear. As it was an expensive marque, generally the owners were older than the usual cyclist. As it was also a fast machine - it was presumed that these 'older' ones were at least a tad wiser (than the usual cyclist).

While these were pre-ACRONYM times, I don't recall an effort to create a (these were also pre-'algorithm'-usage times.) I'm sure though, given the decently rampant humour in this small publication -- KISS would have elicited a chortle and maybe have begun a Contest, too.

Most 'drivers' never ever consider the 'philosophy' of what they are doing; quite fewer seem to possess an instinctive ability to say, overlay? map what they grok of basic physics -- into an actual subroutine/task which they are (at least subliminally) aware they must Do, to survive.

Language often fails when "crossing scales" like this. So I appreciate that the example hints shown, just could galvanize a first-appreciation of just how Much needs to be "going on inside", if you really mean to reach Point B, 100.0% of the time.

Or, as the Murican Emcee allus used to Say: Good Shew!
(Bonus points for IDing that famous Murican presenter~of~Talent)

Ashton,
MPH sententious natterings worked por moi; I be still ~here.

Post #221,798

8/31/05 9:46:18 AM

8/21/07 5:55:34 AM

CRAP

American model of driving:

Consumption of
Resources for
Accelleration and
Passing

Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:55:34 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,784

by CRConrad

8/31/05 7:35:02 AM

Oh lovely, it runs in the family.

Our resident featherbrain twitters:

My dad [...] was rear-ended by a speeding ambulance on a highway offramp. The ambulance was totalled

I doubt there is such a thing as a "speeding" ambulance; I've always thought those were called 'rescue vehicle responding to an emergency'.

The old fart probably wasn't "rear-ended", but ILLEGALLY OBSTRUCTING AN AMBULANCE. Sheesh...

[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)

Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]

Post #221,785

8/31/05 7:41:00 AM

Yeah, I wondered about that.

I'm also not sure whether the fact that one totalled an ambulance is something to be proud of.

Whichever way you stir fry this particular puppy, it doesn't speak volumes for Featherbrain Snr's driving.

Post #221,793

by boxley

8/31/05 9:04:34 AM

especially the car he was driving

see a flasher in your peripheral vision or mirror and stomp the gas, the ambulance would have a hard time matching speeds and you could look for a spot to get out of its way. One very annoying thing, if you see an emergency vehicle get out of the way, it could be your loved one they are trying to save.I dont care if your light is green, wait.
thanx,
bill

Post #221,836

8/31/05 12:05:22 PM

Re: especially the car he was driving

see a flasher in your peripheral vision or mirror and stomp the gas, the ambulance would have a hard time matching speeds and you could look for a spot to get out of its way. One very annoying thing, if you see an emergency vehicle get out of the way, it could be your loved one they are trying to save.I dont care if your light is green, wait.

I explained it better in the other post. Ambulance was on a slanted off-ramp, Dad was on the outer road. Ambulance failed to hit siren, flashing lights weren't seen till it was right smack behind Dad. They took full responsibility.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #221,855

8/31/05 12:48:48 PM

Feh.

If it was on flashers it was visible from miles away. Pops didn't check the sliproad as he passed it. They may have taken responsibility, but the old giffer was still at fault.

A = Anticipation (i.e. silly shit happens around sliproads, so Be Prepared)

Post #221,863

8/31/05 1:01:38 PM

I beg to differ

On this particular off-ramp, the person trying to bypass it on the outer road can't even see a vehicle coming down it until it's at the very top of the off-ramp.

Blame whoever you want, but I've seen the intersection and I know you can't see anything behind you for more than the length of the on-ramp.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #221,867

by drewk

8/31/05 1:03:24 PM

You didn't drive much when you were here, did you?

We have lots of on and off ramps with no visibility at all of merging traffic until it's way too damn late to change your mind. There are some on ramps I won't take in rush hour unless I'm driving something with really good 0-70 peformance.

So no, just because they had the lights on doesn't mean he could see it.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Post #221,924

8/31/05 4:02:06 PM

8/31/05 4:03:50 PM

So?

He didn't have to be in the merging lane.

That's the A in COAST: Anticipation.

Edited by pwhysall Aug. 31, 2005, 04:03:50 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,977

by admin

8/31/05 5:41:43 PM

You've never driven the Southfield Freeway, either.

Sometimes, you just don't have that choice... get boxed in by a couple of semis on a road with merge lanes about 30 yards long and you'll see what I mean.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #221,992

8/31/05 6:10:11 PM

So?

He didn't have to be in the merging lane.

There was no merging lane, it was a two lane road.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #222,132

9/1/05 1:34:39 AM

I mean a different thing, it seems.

To me, "merging lane" is the running lane that the sliproad feeds into. You can get out of that by moving to the right (left, in USia).

Post #222,136

9/1/05 3:14:38 AM

9/1/05 3:16:27 AM

Re: I mean a different thing, it seems.

To me, "merging lane" is the running lane that the sliproad feeds into. You can get out of that by moving to the right (left, in USia).

Hmm if the sliproad is the exit ramp, and the running lane is the road that bypasses it, it doesn't widen into three lanes until well far ahead, so essentially, the off-ramp brings you into the one single lane the cars are in on the bypassing road. Hence the yield signs and the stopping to check behind you before going on past the highway offramp.

Normal cars at normal speed, once they are seen at the top of the ramp, you can get beyond. Ambulances and emergency vehicles, aren't traveling at normal speed and are there before you know it. It's been addressed a few times at that particular intersection here, which is by the hospital.

And sometimes there just is NOWHERE to go when an Emergency vehicle is approaching. The other day I was in a very long turn lane (with curbs on both sides and a concrete island alongside me), that was for veering off one main road to another smaller two lane road. However, it started as a one lane road for several car lengths before widening.

A Fire emergency vehicle suddenly appeared behind me. I tried to pull over, but there was simply no where to go, and it was obvious the truck wouldn't fit past my huge car in that concrete curbed lane... so I had to stomp the gas and speed up ahead of him, and then slip off to the dirt shoulder (which is normally illegal), to give him any room to pass.

We do our best, but there isn't always time or room to get out of the way.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Edited by Nightowl Sept. 1, 2005, 03:16:27 AM EDT

Expand All History

Post #222,144

9/1/05 5:01:14 AM

Shiny things. Look in them occasionally.

Was the fire engine teleported in behind you?

Or did you, like most drivers (including me) not look in your mirrors regularly enough (every 4-7 seconds)?

People who have things "suddenly appear" behind them cause a lot of SMIDSY* accidents involving bikes. Having witnessed the regular near-misses at one of the roundabouts en-route to work, I'm very careful about bikes. Your wing mirrors are your friends.

Mind you, some bikers don't help themselves; I saw a spectacularly bad piece of riding this morning.

I was approaching a roundabout, saw it to be clear, and joined it. As I passed the entry on my left, a scooter attempted to cut me up+. Yes. A vehicle capable of a stonking 35MPH attempted to carve up a car that was already doing 35. I saw him in plenty of time and made an annoying but not dangerous move to the right (this inconvenienced but did not endanger the car behind me and to my right, which was turning right) and gave Mr Teenage Halfwit a good blast of my horn, because he either didn't know or didn't care that I was there.

* SMIDSY: Sorry Mate I Didn't See You. A common excuse used by car drivers for splattering bikers all over the asphalt.
+ On UK roundabouts, you yield to traffic on the roundabout and to the right (remember, we drive on the correct side of the road). Traffic on the roundabout does not yield to traffic joining the roundabout unless there are traffic lights. It's the principle of "hard to join but easy to leave" which makes them safer.

Post #222,169

by drewk

9/1/05 10:11:40 AM

That's what I'm telling you

There are on some ramps here that are so bad, with merge lanes so short, that you can have things appear right behind you.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Post #222,207

9/1/05 12:42:33 PM

9/1/05 12:44:21 PM

Exactly

And worse even, was the fact that the Fire Station was RIGHT behind me (around the corner to the left), so that I heard the siren while entering the long curbed turn lane (more like a huge Y road), and glanced back to see it turning behind me.

I got out of the way, I just had to move forward, I couldn't go sideways, no where to go there.

Brenda

Edit: Peter, I'm not saying I NEVER am at fault. Of course I am, everyone is sometimes, we're only human. But in this case, he was out of the station and behind me just as I entered the Y-road and there was virtually no time or warning.

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Edited by Nightowl Sept. 1, 2005, 12:44:21 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #222,230

by folkert

9/1/05 1:56:54 PM

Some of the worst one *I* know about...

Were within 3 or 4 miles of Beeps House.

Let alone, New York... where you best have a car that can go from 0-50 in a heart bea and 50-0 in less than a heart beat.

That's just to get out of your driveway/alley/service road. Trust me when I say you just ain't seen aggressive driving until you are right in Jamacia, Queens in New York on the main drag in Queens.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey
[image|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg||||]

Post #222,232

by drewk

9/1/05 2:04:39 PM

I'm thinking PA Tunrpike

Some of them have the 5-foot barriers between the lanes, which you can't see over unless you're in a semi, and merge lanes sometimes about two car lengths.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Post #222,236

by broomberg

9/1/05 2:10:12 PM

Buncha wimps

Just call it accelerated evolution.

Darwin in action.
Driver incapable of handling the situation, you die.
And there is a good chance your kids die with you, which means your genes won't spread any further.

Post #222,330

by jb4

9/1/05 6:33:59 PM

Might just be Darwin in action...

...Because it sure wasn't intelligent design....

Post #222,363

9/1/05 9:08:22 PM

There are multiple evolved strategies for this problem

The one that I've evolved to use is called "avoidance".

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #222,419

by Ashton

9/2/05 7:00:18 AM

Hmmm - spent a couple summers at 119-14 Union Tpke

in Queens. BMT, IRT, IND.. too young to have a car; didn't realize that the traffic zooming near the sidewalk I learned to skate on {Ouch!} was destined for such infamy!

Would skate to Forest Hills (didn't know about 'tennis' either) for a movie {sniff}.

(in early '90s, enroute Boston RT to Miami - I drove past that Tpke, had a few seconds to glance: yup that brownish building stood!)

Time.. wounder of all heels.

Post #222,366

by static

9/1/05 9:21:08 PM

Bikers in all-black on black cycles should be banned.

Some years ago I came out of a side-street near where I worked onto a not-busy connecting road, both fairly flat and quite straight. Checked both ways before turning left, went round the corner to find a motor-cyclist skite past. I *know* never saw anything before I turned - the only explanation was that he was almost impossible to see because he was in 100% black leathers.

And I bet he was wondering how I didn't see him, too.

Wade.

d-_-b

Post #222,123

9/1/05 12:35:42 AM

That depends on area

On ramps in Los Angeles tend to be fairly sane.

Cheers,
Ben

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #221,834

8/31/05 12:03:40 PM

8/31/05 12:08:06 PM

Actually, no

Yes, I didn't mean speeding, per se, I meant moving at a very high emergency speed. It also wasn't when my dad was that old, I think he was in his 50's.

He was driving on the outer road, Ambulance forgot to hit siren on the way down the ramp, and rear-ended him.

Hospital/Ambulance service took responsibility for the accident, admitted it was their fault for not alerting him sooner with siren, and paid costs.

Brenda

Edit: had written it wrong, he didn't try to pull over until he suddenly saw the lights about a car or two length behind him.

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Edited by Nightowl Aug. 31, 2005, 12:08:06 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #221,432

by jb4

8/29/05 1:55:59 PM

Maybe there IS something to be said for roundabouts...

...besides, of course, "Gak!"

;-)

Post #221,440

8/29/05 2:14:35 PM

Re: Maybe there IS something to be said for roundabouts...

[link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout|There certainly is]!

Post #221,451

by boxley

8/29/05 2:29:52 PM

trouble is all those dam cars going the wrong way

Post #221,466

by drewk

8/29/05 3:31:34 PM

OMFG! "Magic Roundabout"

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]

Post #221,467

8/29/05 3:34:00 PM

Designed to trap Americans, I think

There's one tourist been on there for eighteen months.

Post #221,558

by Meerkat

8/30/05 6:43:47 AM

"Look kids! Big Ben! Parliament! Look kids! Big Ben! Par..."

Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.

Post #221,448

8/29/05 2:22:17 PM

Re: Utter nonsense.

They're not "dropping like flies" at all. There's been what? Half a dozen accidents in a three month period? How many absolutely uneventful flights took place in that time? And in the year before that?

Try 5 accidents in August alone, not a 3 month period.

When you add up the crashes versus the millions of safe miles flown, the risk is minimal. I'd fly everywhere if I could.

The big problem though, is the media never tells anyone about all those flights that were fine... they only go nuts over the crashes so they stand out and we focus on those. Sometimes I wish they would point out during a crash story just how many planes DID make it from said airline, so that we could get some measure of comfort from that. But they don't care about us, just making and reporting news.

Brenda

"Excel is to math what a Microwave Oven is to cooking!"

Post #221,453