Post #209,881
6/5/05 4:17:56 AM
6/5/05 4:22:46 AM
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Maybe -
(From kibitzing re some deals done by a local savvy car buyer)
What dealer Really pays is elusive, what with special kickbacks, breaks on 'flooring' expense (the interest to sorta take ownership of a plethora of new vehicles) and similar. So there may be more perks in the so-called 'dealer cost' than meets the eye (even CU's). I also suspect that, with all the info on the web - we may expect new 'innovative' obfuscations, escalating regularly.
Think you're dead-on re mum's-the-word on actual payment scheme. Get it down to exact bottom line, after you've scanned the list for unwanted add-ons (like special undercoating, paint 'treatments' and the like).
Don't know enough about the face-face choreography of this part of the dance to be sure, but -- you might have to play along briefly with their suppositions re financing, as the 'Closer' will likely (try to) intersperse such refs. with other Q&As. S/He may force you to lie / to evade her own dissembling, as I gather - you've gathered.
(Most likely your salesdroid Will have to pass you on to a Closer, BTW - it's almost a catechism. Bet those guys train with the people who train in jury massaging for the guilty-but-rich.)
Break a leg . . .
and ... Zooooom --->
PS FWIW -
My AZ friend just got an '05 Corolla a few months back; I drove it while in LA. Dunno exact version, but her model doesn't have the larger? hotter engine. I'm pretty merciless about sloppy handling or bad QC -- found only that the clutch action was unacceptably abrupt - she will have to deal with them on that, when there's time.
Overall, I deemed that ride felt like a longer wheelbase car - which is a good design trick to bring off. Even this lesser-engine was OK with freeway accel, quiet, etc. (Thought they went a bit nutzo with the overdone aluminized plastic in headlight pods; similar nonfunctional artsyness in rears, but WTF .. others are doing this silly stuff, too.)
Edited by Ashton
June 5, 2005, 04:22:46 AM EDT
Maybe -
(From kibitzing re some deals done by a local savvy car buyer)
What dealer Really pays is elusive, what with special kickbacks, breaks on 'flooring' expense (the interest to sorta take ownership of a plethora of new vehicles) and similar. So there may be more perks in the so-called 'dealer cost' than meets the eye (even CU's). I also suspect that, with all the info on the web - we may expect new 'innovative' obfuscations, escalating regularly.
Think you're dead-on re mum's-the-word on actual payment scheme. Get it down to exact bottom line, after you've scanned the list for unwanted add-ons (like special undercoating, paint 'treatments' and the like).
Don't know enough about the face-face choreography of this part of the dance to be sure, but -- you might have to play along briefly with their suppositions re financing, as the 'Closer' will likely (try to) intersperse such refs. with other Q&As. S/He may force you to lie / to evade her own dissembling, as I gather - you've gathered.
(Most likely your salesdroid Will have to pass you on to a Closer, BTW - it's almost a catechism. Bet those guys train with the people who train in jury massaging for the guilty-but-rich.)
Break a leg . . .
and ... Zooooom --->
PS FWIW -
My AZ friend just got an '05 Corolla a few months back; I drove it while in LA. Dunno exact version, but her model doesn't have the larger? hotter engine. I'm pretty merciless about sloppy handling or bad QC -- found only that the cluth action was unacceptably abrupt - she will have to deal with them on that, when there's time.
Overall, I deemed that ride felt like a longer wheelbase car - which is a good design trick to bring off. Even this lesser-engine was OK with freeway accel, quiet, etc. (Thought they went a bit nutzo with the overdone aluminized plastic in headlight pods; similar nonfunctional artsyness in rears, but WTF .. others are doing this silly stuff, too.)
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Post #209,901
6/5/05 10:14:53 AM
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Am I being too picky?
I found that I never really got comfortable in the Corolla. I was much happier in the Camry. (Remember, I'm 6'3"...) I'm not sure if that's because it really didn't fit me, or because I'm used to a larger car (Subaru Outback).
I think that I'll negotiate on the Camry, being willing to switch to the Corolla.
As for their true cost, true enough. I don't really know. But given that CR is what I have, CR is what I'll use.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #209,903
6/5/05 10:48:26 AM
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That depends.
How long and how frequently are you going to be in this car?
I'm of similar height to you, and rejected a number of cars outright last time around because I couldn't get the driving position right, or the clutch was too light, or the pedals were too close.
I bought the car I bought because I'm in it every single day for not less than an hour and 20 minutes (often more, sometimes much more), and I refuse to compromise (within reason) on the pleasure that driving CAN be.
Bigger cars aren't necessarily concomitant with comfortable driving positions for tall folk. I could get supremely comfy in SWMBO's Matiz (3-pot 800cc buzzbox) but can I get comfy in a Mondeo? Can I, hell.
Seats where you can alter the tilt are handy; in conjunction with reach/rake adjustment on the steering wheel, this should give you the flexibility to sit the way you want.
You're about to spend a lot of money on something that will be a significant feature in your life; you are doing the right thing by making sure you get the one that's right for you.
Peter
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Post #209,911
6/5/05 11:29:02 AM
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Right. I just hate spending money.
And don't have the time this time around to buy used. :-(
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #210,004
6/6/05 5:15:25 AM
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Re: Right. I just hate spending money.
Pity that, re 'used'; while the new Toyota Avalon appears to be >> price range (and also recently improved, over a basically bulletproof, comfy OK-handling mid-size car) - the older models have close-enough the same qualities; were not so Popular, thus - better buyer's market.
Camry is/was always Popular, ergo less is to be gained used/clean (We found this the case with the Integra purchase -- it made no sense to buy a 1-3 yo used one, at the time.) All smart car buyers eschew the New, of course.. but *time* may be your deciding factor, and no one should (could ;-) argue that with you.
Concur with the observations re what YOU like, not only in er, clearance-room - but in adjustments being flexible enough to accommodate more than one driving position. But as was also suggested - this isn't necessarily as much about car size, as it seems: bigger isn't always a better assortment of driver's space + adjustability.
(I, for one - would rate +5 for EZ seat height adjustment; wouldn't consider absence of, at least tilt, in addition to fore/aft as all supply. 'Course you need a tad of headroom to go with that..) Some have adjustable lumbar support - I know someone who Won't ride in a seat sans that - or brings own pillow.
In that regard, you might want to take another jaundiced but sanguine? look at the humble Corolla's actual adjustment range + clearances, ignoring the outside sheet-metal. If that dealer proves to be too skanky - there are oodles. Commodity yada.
Luck with the Sharks,
moi
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Post #209,907
6/5/05 11:16:08 AM
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Don't do it
You make too much money to buy a car too small for you.
You will be stuck in traffic.
You will be uncomfortable.
For long periods of time.
Every moment stuck in traffic, in a cramped car, you'll be kicking yourself (mentally, could not do it physically, too tight)). This is YEARS of pain.
Add the inevitable occasional head smash. It WILL happen in a small car.
Add the fact the Camry is probably safer (have not bothered too look it up though).
For what? For $3K difference. Divide it over the hours of pain, and it will be well worth it.
If you negotiate, do it with the attitude of leaving and buying a different brand, not merely dropping down a level and buying from the same dealer. Maybe they make more the on the Corolla!
Also, have you figured out the baby seat choreography? Really difficult in a small car. How's your back? Gonna get worse.
Also, political issues arise.
If you are in an office of people, and you have the smallest car, you will never be asked do drive for lunch or meetings, which you may think is a good thing. You would be wrong though. There is a subtle power dynamic that comes into play when you are the driver of the group, especially if the group includes your boss or co-workers in another department. Make use of it. Rack up the brownie points and favors owed. No one would ever admit that they favored you in a decision for something so silly, and it would not be conciously, but every little bit of leverage helps.
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Post #209,909
6/5/05 11:27:39 AM
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Good points
I agree with all except the one about driving people.
The usual lunch crowd needs 5 people. My boss drives a minivan. If we take multiple cars, there's a BMW and an Acura with leather seats that get taken. I'm not getting a car as nice as either of those. I can offer to drive, but I'm unlikely to have people accept.
As for the baby seat, I informally measured. It looks like there is room. But the seat isn't quite as comfortable.
About how long I'll spend in this, the answer is "too much". At least an hour and a half per week day. :-(
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #209,914
6/5/05 11:53:51 AM
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Just be a reasonable alternative
A Camry is comfy enough, a Corolla is not.
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Post #209,910
6/5/05 11:27:40 AM
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Don't choose between sizes based on price.
That is, I think you want the dealer to give the best price on the car you want, not to get a car for the lowest price. Presumably you're going to have it for a while, and presumably you can afford either. You want to pick the car that fits your needs best. Don't let them decide what car they want to sell you. If you try to bargain with them on price between 2 different cars, you lose sight of the real goal.
A friend at work has a 2004 Corolla. He's about 5'10", maybe 150 pounds. It's a pretty decent car and fits him pretty well, but I don't think that someone as tall as you would be happy with it for very long. It's rather tall and narrow compared to the previous models. The Camry would fit you much better. It would be a much better car for a growing child too.
Ditto on Peter and Barry's comments. You're going to be sitting in whatever car you get for a significant fraction of the next few years. It should be comfortable for you.
Cheers,
Scott.
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