It's not slogans, it's experience.

Post #97,974 by mmoffitt 4/22/03 4:49:47 PM Reply	It's not slogans, it's experience. Observation of stoners made my mind up for me, not any "Say No" campaigns. Jesus, is it impossible to believe that not everyone thinks "getting stoned" is the path to enlightenment? Here's another idea I have that you can choke on. This Sixties were a LIE. Sure, everybody loved everybody when they were all stoned, but what happened when they came down? My one-word summary of virtually every social movement of the 1960's is "insincerity". If they weren't all stoned (and simultaneously worried about getting their asses shot off in SE Asia) none of it would have happened. As I wrote that I realized for the first time that there IS some endearing quality in Murican potheads: when they're stoned, they're less reprehensible. bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #97,976 by Silverlock 4/22/03 4:51:34 PM Reply	A good reason for you to try it when they're stoned, they're less reprehensible. The world is only a simple place to the simple.
Post #97,978 by mmoffitt 4/22/03 4:53:54 PM Reply	I hate this topic. I'm going to stop stating my ideas on it. Living in a country that makes Bill O'Reilly a folk hero is difficult enough - it isolates me to a great extent. Then, somebody mentions this topic and I lose what friends I have :-( bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #97,980 by deSitter 4/22/03 4:57:01 PM Reply	Hey there No wucks, cobber. You have a real opinion, not a knee-jerk reaction. That's MY field! -drl Light is heavy: R{} = (2R/W)T - (1/2W){D-2,D-2}W Heavy is light: (D-3)(RF[] + 5/4 g) = 0
Post #98,046 by Silverlock 4/22/03 8:53:55 PM Reply	You haven't lost any friends. I just disagree. OK? I think you are pulling "every study" out of your ass. I could be wrong. Doesn't mean I like you less. On the contrary, I look forward to arguing with someone who has a basis for their position beyond "morals". The world is only a simple place to the simple.
Post #98,059 by Another Scott 4/22/03 9:26:28 PM Reply	Nope. You're wrong. Then, somebody mentions this topic and I lose what friends I have :-( You're wrong about that. :-) This disucssion reminds me of a health/science class I had in middle school. We were discussing things like LSD. The guy behind me was telling me that cocaine was a great drug because it wasn't addictive. Lots of people in the 1970s and early 1980s thought that.... Like you, I've known a few people over the years who were really messed up by pot. I've known a few others who could smoke it occasionally without apparent longterm deliterious effect. Illegal drugs and privacy issues (like the Santorum thread) cause some problems for me. Drugs clearly impair rational thinking and motor skills. But the harm of having them be illegal is something that's hard for me to unquestioningly tolerate. People should have a right to privacy, but obviously there are limits (e.g. you don't have the right to make $100 bills in your basement [unless it only becomes illegal when you try to pass them - but I think not]). Don't take the disagreements personally. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #98,069 by mmoffitt 4/22/03 9:40:53 PM Reply	Thanks everybody :-) I don't take arguments personally, it's just difficult arguing with the folks that are typically my allies ;-) bcnu, Mikem The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism. - Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
Post #98,098 by boxley 4/22/03 10:50:49 PM Reply	no worries, lets give Jake a job to do (too old for google) In the 70's McGill University did a study observing the effects of Alchohol, Weed and both mixed including placebos and driving skills. The Amount of weed smoked was 2 pin rollies, strength of the average in Montreal at the time (pretty decent) 6 oz of vodka liberally mixed with oj and placebos for both. The skill test was for all drivers to drive a slalom both sober and after partaking. During the course the car radio would come on and a blinking light would flash, the job was to turn both off. Results, the person with the best "score" no cones knocked over sober or otherwise was a 110 lb woman with 6 oz and both joints inside her. Conclusion, most people get seriously fucked up on booze and weed singly or together. Point I am trying to make is WTF being high is not smart, being high among the straights annoys the straights. Thus is life, if you are not impairing someone else (annoyance is not impairing) why bother? I respect your opinions on this and many other subjects and once again if you and Marlowe share a viewpoint that makes you both human. take care of the peoples plane comrade and keep the faith, thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] Carpe Dieu
Post #97,992 by screamer 4/22/03 5:23:46 PM Reply	While I agree with much of what you are saying... especially about all that "feel good hippy shit" (Pete Townsend, Psychoderelict), you may be missing the point. It is not that anyone truly disagrees that most things that you smoke, ingest, shoot up, etc. have a cost with your metabolism (I have lost two brothers in their forties due to drugs/alcohol) - it's the idea that criminalizing/decriminalizing any substance is necessarily a "wise idea". To wit: You cannot legislate morality. When the Volstead Act was passed and Prohibition of alcohol was enacted, organized crime (gangsters) stepped in to fill the still present demand. Just like now, if you criminalize something like ecstasy/methamphetamine/pot/heroin/monkeydope/uppers/downers/poppers/cactus/mushrooms/pickanythingyouwant then organized crime is happy to step in to fill the demand. And that brings added violence - organized violence. It also fills up prisons with people who predominately are a threat only to themselves... It also greatly increases the prices of said drugs and lures poor folk in by economics alone. It's said, but if you check history, every culture that I've read about had it's drugs/alcohol to alter its reality. I don't drink anymore. I don't use drugs anymore. I haven't done either for many years. As I've said, I've watched two brothers die early deaths from overdose and schlerosis (just a month ago). Guess what? I still think these things should be not be illegal. To me, the cost of the war on drugs is far to high when compared to the benefits gained. YMMV. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #97,999 by inthane-chan 4/22/03 5:47:06 PM Reply	Wot 'ee said. For the record, I have never knowingly ingested any hallucinatory substances other than three beers one night. Seriously. If somebody has an urge to bake their brains, as long as they don't do anything that endangers me or their kids, that's fine by me. After 9/11, Bush made two statements: 1. "Terrorists hate America because America is a land of freedom and opportunity." 2. "We intend to attack the root causes of terrorism." Sounds like everything is going according to plan.

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