Since it's difficult to decide twixt the hard- and soft- ware place between rocks, and this has moved beyond &^$*& Brian-dead techno into a possible vendetta type activity.

The Anticlimax:

Armed with the pregnant tip of (Another) Scott, we proceeded to what seemed a possible cure - if hardly a believable explanation. That is, since the 8100 model and W2K surfaced in a similar time frame, and surely these two long-term bedmates have pillow talk - HTF could the firmware in BOTH a DVD player and a CD/RW (stamped out in the 100Ks one supposes) be "incompatible" with the timimg loops of a #%*$& Billy Install program??

When last we messed with this mess:
Having been snookered into letting W2K go with a lone selection of HPFS at last stage -- (having mysteriously swallowed the FAT-32 option at this particular point).. we found that M$ considers this a one --> way 'choice'.

FDISK might remove the partition marks and think it wiped the sucker - but the W2K Install *just knew* we really wanted Only *HPFS. (Media Descriptor byte? Subtlety in MBR?). Ditto using the Dell secret 'clean1K' alleged wipe util. we were tipped on.

* (when *you* folks argue FAT-32 vs HPFS: well, I had to go with De Sitting One's recap: just maybe you win a bit on HP if.. you have a humongous number of small files -- like some boring SPAM dbase? But she will be doing streaming video to an actual purpose. More tools around for FAT - you need so many.)

Dredge up Ghost; install on a laptop to decompress gdisk. Wipe MBR. Try again. Not enough. Set options to create in one-pass, 1 primary partition, set active and Quick-format FAT-32 (ie skip media test - already SpinRited) It did that rilly fast.. for 80 MB!

THAT got back the choices. On with FAT-32. This time used CD/RW as boot device, thinking perhaps the DVD was possibly Dubya-impaired. No dice: Endless Install Still.

OK, per Billy Note: W98 boot-disk w/CDROM drivers (and add-on xcopy.exe from its DOS 7 repository in \\command, on YAN laptop = NOT a hint from BillyCo of course).

Copy the whole schmeer of "i386" onto HD. This time Install asks if we want to nuke "a previous install" - You Bet. Now it looks as if it might be doing it. Until the unannounced reboot AGAIN at what should have been EOF for the drill.

NO CHANGE! Used Norton Commander to erase some leftover $-temp humongous files still left on HD, for the ultimate try. Nope - remains stubborn as a Vulcan in a blood-lust marriage contract.

Since Dell won't tell you shit unless you buy your W2K from them, no matter how much Other grief they have caused elsewhere (what a Fucked industry you guys suffocate in).. we're running outta ideas. This same CD has routinely installed W2K on now 2 laptops and an e-Machine, for test of course. Not a peep put of these installs. A child could do it - maybe that's mandatory..

Moving the ".cabs" to HD eliminates any supposition of a CD-reader problem - unless that 'problem' tricks xcopy's CRC too (!?) Lastly, to test the CD-reader M$-excuse: we used the Restore CD (on the unused replacement HD) to successfully install *that* POS - without any taxi .cab dances: from SAME CD/RW..

And all this with a refurb? = different MB than first tries, and SpinRite tested media. ALSO: both the DVD and CD/RW will boot BBC-Linux just like a real piece of hardware would! SO then - what possibly might Dell insert in the BIOS? == which could discriminate between a Retail W2K package and a Dell-W2K purchased package? Subtly mad DDR? mem chip = not bad enough to nuke MErde? My thought is: anything so overtly scurrilous as a 'special' W2K for Dell? would have been detected by now and broadcast widely with suitable mockery.

We'll prolly put on 98-SE, about the last vaguely-reliable spy-free kluge (not counting NSA trapdoor and a few others, perhaps). No SP-3 with a EULA there (we wouldn't install SP-3 anyway - for W2K). Maybe the fancy Autodesk graphics program can live in a dejunked 98 enviro and maybe not - ME isn't even a remote selection, even tho 'free'/ it's ~ worth.

Now I'm more curious about how this might be done ... than pissed at the dedicated and OBV intransigence and silly juvenile obstructions of the Dell Droids, y'know?

Anyone ever experience similar? Thanks for perusing our soap of the day, even if you ain't got no theory..


Ashton
Screw You Bally - HPFS *IS* reversible you slimy Bastards, and you could make it EZ!
H.T.F. do youse gals n'guys stay ~sane-like~ dealing with THIS kind of crap?
Daily ?!?

Thanks for suggestions. I had in fact installed W2K on that HD in my e-Machine. I recall someone's idea of booting into SAFE on the Dell and nuking the whole hardware setup folder - for redetection of Dell's h/ware.

Perhaps I should have tried that; if I'd suspected an intentional ploy on Dell's part re desire for a s/ware monopoly too: I would have. (It's unclear though - if this is a clever enough BIOS flag? - that that ploy would have had any more success ??) I went with the popular concept that - all M$ stuff loves to see/make a blank repartitioned disk, for best luck.

Besides - having moved entire i386 folder to HD: this was an install from HD, most recently. It cannot be a DVD, CD firmware question - only something endemic to Dell firmware - which I presume is the oNLY affecting source, once POST has passed a boot process onto the OS. (Remember - the LNX-BBC booted from either reader OK - prolly no Dell auto-kill-Linux flag installed. Yet.)

Mobo: This assembly is a combo of actually fairly convenient tool-less access + cheesy plastic parts, plus: a mobo with a rivetted L-panel on back - which fits into a hole in the case back. Onboard this L are the useful diags. LEDs (which worked, led to possible bad connection in the mem. chips initially. Fixed with Tweak.)

I can't imagine a generic mobo fitting sanely - for another thing, the mobo has affixed a metal slider which is the one point bottom support via a stud in case bottom [+ a big grounding screw] as only physical attachment points. Clever discriminatory design: use Dell parts or die.

I / we'll have to ponder the vicissitudes of court action - non-performance on her extended On-site service contract, never honored, VS a need for her to get some specific s/ware running. So unless someone has troubled to out-fox Dell for the sheer Goodness of such a project - this devolves to a political problem as much as technical = how best for her to move on: maybe to Apple, which can also run her prof.-needed s/ware.

Of course too, maybe even 98SE install will run into same problem; no doubt her Rescue-98 for the laptop is model-coded similarly. Will try a generic 98SE install, of course too. MErde is not an option for her pro software (accounting, graphics) needs. Even the s/ware mfg. folks say That. (Besides - they didn't provide her with the Key code for her 'facory installed' MErde/disk => YAN call to get That from Dell) No point in asking a droid about crippled BIOS now, is there?

Heh.. she cooks well. And I wouldn't go through all this crap (and with another friend who Likes screwing with M$-crapware! Poor guy.) for anything less than love. I take this to be a microcosm of just how shitty has been the fallout, for millions? of M$-Intel-Dell predators who make these toy machines with 0 concern for end-users. But then - you guys knew that.

This lady gave clear info on all her calls, exhibited monumental patience (she is well informed about biz-psych and about transparent ploys intended to stall). She documented the conversations and has phone-extension 2nd party admissible evidence of the methods employed. (I wasn't involved until recently).

We both want to take this to court - only question next to be answered is: prob. of collecting - even with a Judgment on her behalf. Dell has no shame and likely would defy via all possible means. As in this [link|http://www.summitlake.com/COMPUTERS_NET/DELL_20020209.html| letter].

Hey.. she recently talked to an old acquaintance who had similar problems with a Dimension - and after One Thousand phone calls over a couple years [This one is the def'n of Persistent] - that person finally got a new machine recently, but with XP and.. she has New Problems and ... {sigh}

Anyway, thanks for the ideas. I think thus far - she's screwed if 98 also won't load. And she will buy Nothing next from Dell, even if it might 'run' for a time. Let them whistle for return of the 'old' mobo/HD for at least as long a time as she has been ignored.


Regards,

Ashton.

Yes, I think BIOS version is earlier than that - so this is next obvious change to make. That was on list to ask a Dell tech, if we could find a way to phrase the question w/o triggering a Dell s/ware purchase-only impasse.

I'll try signing in with her S/N later (they won't let in random browse, I note). Certainly we have to confirm with latest BIOS Rev - whether her court claim would be based on nondelivery of On-Site Service or.. something also more sinister concerning the 'merchantability' of the machine.

I note that the problems at your eXpertsXchange link seems ~ in her build time-frame, so maybe it is all about unintended BIOS glitches

There'll be a lawsuit in any event though, unless Dell reverses all previous behaviour and pays a claim for at least refund of the unfulfilled Service Agreement (etc). We'll ask a pro for some legal hints.

Thanks again, Scott for the germane suggestions. It may come to a bare-bones machine, though with enough moxie to run her GeForce2 Ultra, etc. In fact, with the new HD loaded with ME, peddling it may be next best relief.

re eBay: I noted long ago that they do whatever M$ 'suggests', concerning sales of even unopened legit. sealed s/ware. I stopped following the debate over their M$ policies, as the management is intentionally fully insulated from "The Community\ufffd" -- and has been for a couple years. As they become a virtual monopoly of web auctions - they emulate the Leader more and more. Of course.

Anyway, I'll have to see this through - maybe even via Presario or a sl. more fancy e-Machine than my own. Like most of us (I suppose) - I'll hekp until it becomes 'expected'.. the start of that familiar slope \\.


Ashton

techno-pop irrelevance. Let's see..

There's a sequential list of exact steps in the process tried, with (I believe) descriptions at least as intelligible as your X-Man666.JPG monologues. YOU are gonna lecture ME on 'clear prose'?

Offhand I can't think of any omitted info that is relevant: This is a Dell Dimension 8100, ordered in early 2001 (and shipped a month late of promised delivery). It is a deal made in Hell - which she could not get a RMA to return - and she ain't no dummy. (Delivery too late - to merely cancel CC payment) Of Course she was not Aware! at the time, of what a viper's nest of unconscionable mercantile Bastards she had gotten in with - HTF Would a civilian know all the crap you guys have heads infested with ??

This is a person who spends a Lot of time rescuing animals abused by Yuppie households who like to give puppies to the Logo-clad kiddies, never train the animal (or the kid.. about responsibility for same miserable creature) -- then drop it off at the local 'Shelter' for asassination as er, it's Too Big Now and the kid's into SoccerBalletTaeKwan-D'Oh and Nintendo Gorillas Eat Virgins after Flamethrowers Rot Their Flesh.

So THAT's why I am involved - she has been screwed out of an operational machine, flaky from Day One; purchased from an alleged reputable Peddler of what now seems to be sabotaged Crap - mangled to assure that only Dell$ BillyWare will function on the POS. This total purchase included a notebook (fortunately w/ 98 and not MErde installed). Total with other stuff was >$4 K IIRC. Her records of interactions with the DellDroid purveyors of delay - is a (likely soon) court-ready dossier of nasty obstructive behavior.

Probably it is as A-Scott suggests - somewhere there's a flag for Non-Dell purchased ordinary s/ware, a la Compaq's same dance in the early days, using hardware with special mechanical shapes. The mobo is Special, and an attached L-shaped panel is a part of the rear of the case. So much, I think for - freeing of Dell BIOS / sabotage.

Maybe she will choose Apple, write this off - invoke Song-Beverly CA consumer protection Act and go after Dell, win, then try to collect. yada yada. That takes more money, and most of her activities do not generate money.

If you haven't a techno insight into getting around this likely scenario, then Fuck Off. She hasn't $$ to waste for the immediate satisfaction of crushing this POS. And if you can't understand my prose - you didn't get this far.


Ashton

No, just my reply to quips. I know about catching more bears with honey, when dealing with Corp droids (who may know better but must follow exact scripts - I never judge them stupid until an answer reveals such; have to deal with them in any case.) Please see my reply to Greg re recap.

Thus far it appears there's a BIOS upgrade to be done and, the M$-site instructions failed to list correct? expected directory for the I386 compressed files as, C:\\Windows\\Options\\I386. This may be the final glitch - and the remedy just may work next. WHY? the need for remedy with Dell - may or may not emerge.

Actually, from the first - the machine was plagued with instabilities - various kernel32 and other errors (she wrote down) and then.. the oft-reported Win-ME extreme slowdowns. There were errors made re other things she ordered. I omitted what seemed irrelevant to present situation, now using a new HD (and exchanged mobo). Among ongoing complaints: frequent crashes of an indispensable billing program; insufficient info to see a pattern in crash messages (where there were any, before lockup).

When I arrived on the scene, it was issuing a self-diagnostic on the HD, "I'm about to die" - somewhere I noted exact wording. That was enough for Dell to send a new one. Various other reports induced the Dell tech to send a new (refurb) motherboard too. Events with the W2K install attempts followed the sequence I described. My listing may be bare enough for you to grok, in the version after Greg's suggestion.


Thanks,

Ashton

We resolved that the final test for the duration would be: that it simply load its own Restore disk of Win MErde, onto the new HD and the refurb mobo. If it accomplished that, to a first approximation, Dell might conclude they had fulfilled a major requirement. (Then we would address the W2K and other issues.)

Alas - random crashes persisted during install, though it did complete, unlike the W2K endless loop. Moot that it did not find the GeFORCE driver and instead defaulted to 640/480, or that first install was mouseless. The fact of kernel 32 and other messages, random crashes on a clean install with no aps loaded: is as far as I/we shall persist. (Greg's memory clue could well be apt) We won't be letting them ship that, then a week later a CPU. Then CD/RW? Another mobo? yada

Letter, reports to Mikey Dell next, prep small claims court forms - prepare for presentation to a consumer muckraking show on local Tee Vee station (in SF). She wants a full refund for entire purchase - as she had requested within 72 hrs/ of its arrival. By now, maybe it's in the cards: Dell has in fact done nothing re her warranty. We shall have to become a thorn.

I'd sorta like to find out what broke, of course - but this-all has reached the ridiculous stage. Time to fight. More tasty tidbits as & when.


Ashton

Appreciate offer; alas this be a P-4 with (whatever is the fancy paired RAS-sensitive memory spread of now near-3 years ago).

As mentioned in (belated) reply to Greg - depending on how court? or TeeVee? goes - I may give a try with known good memory, on the boxed-up entrails. Hope is: a guy shows up at door and we give him a big box, in exchange for a check.. or maybe CASH.

(Irony abounds - no problems with down-grading the later Dell 4400 recently; of course I needed no 'support' from Dell, nor would they have answered any questions about nuking Ex Pee!)


Thanks for kind offer,

Ashton