Don't even try that.

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Post #62,873 by bepatient 11/14/02 2:02:45 PM Reply	Don't even try that. Its not even remotely what I said. And I disagree with blind increases in pay being a good first step unless its tied to performance. In order for me to agree to it being a good first step...you must tell me that I will be giving >good< teachers a raise and at the same time I will be replacing bad teachers. How can you do this until the teachers (or at least their leadership) agrees to have their performance measured or at a minimum...their qualifications verified? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #62,882 by Silverlock 11/14/02 2:41:36 PM Reply	Nothing "blind" about it The current pay of teachers is an atrocity. BTW {this is me "telling" you} We will be giving good teachers a raise and getting rid of bad teachers (eventually, everybody retires sometime). Do you agree now? As I thought I made clear before, I agree that there are plenty of problems with the education establisment. Accountability and performance measurement are a couple. Let's get them to a more equitable salary first and then worry about merit increases and cleaning out the dead wood. If we have to wait until you are satisfied that all bad teachers are now unemployed, I doubt we will ever see teacher's pay rising to a level matching the importance of the job.
Post #62,890 by bepatient 11/14/02 3:06:45 PM Reply	See under boxley. [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=62883\|Post #62883] You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

do the apologists want to explain here? - (boxley) - (110) - Nov. 6, 2002, 08:34:59 AM EST

First you're right....But you're wrong - (jb4) - (109) - Nov. 6, 2002, 09:01:30 AM EST

Ditto. -NT - (Brandioch) - Nov. 6, 2002, 09:13:27 AM EST

voted against the class size ammendment and demo for gov - (boxley) - (103) - Nov. 6, 2002, 10:11:14 AM EST

Great ideas....bad laws - (bepatient) - (102) - Nov. 6, 2002, 12:36:53 PM EST

Bullshit. - (mmoffitt) - (101) - Nov. 6, 2002, 03:17:56 PM EST

Hmm... - (Simon_Jester) - (1) - Nov. 6, 2002, 03:27:01 PM EST

Re: Hmm... ___[argument impossible here] - (Ashton) - Nov. 7, 2002, 10:22:37 PM EST

It Is All Fear - (deSitter) - (4) - Nov. 6, 2002, 03:27:41 PM EST

it may well end up in open class warfare - (boxley) - (3) - Nov. 6, 2002, 05:28:41 PM EST

Box-this sounds positively Left-Wing! - (jb4) - (2) - Nov. 6, 2002, 05:45:30 PM EST

Contrary to popular belief... - (inthane-chan) - (1) - Nov. 6, 2002, 05:51:13 PM EST

close enough when both the left and the right want to lock - (boxley) - Nov. 6, 2002, 07:06:48 PM EST

Oh puleaze - (bepatient) - (93) - Nov. 6, 2002, 05:39:07 PM EST

Ross ain't all wrong. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (92) - Nov. 7, 2002, 10:33:45 AM EST

But in this case, you certainly are. -NT - (bepatient) - (91) - Nov. 7, 2002, 10:03:31 PM EST

How can I be wrong about my own observations? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (90) - Nov. 11, 2002, 11:10:08 PM EST

Better wrong than.. too far Right, no? -NT - (Ashton) - (2) - Nov. 12, 2002, 06:18:58 AM EST

Okay. Count them. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Nov. 12, 2002, 03:48:58 PM EST

Well... - (folkert) - Nov. 17, 2002, 01:20:49 AM EST

never mind -NT - (bepatient) - (86) - Nov. 12, 2002, 08:22:50 AM EST

Yup.. mindless threads just grow__ like - (Ashton) - (85) - Nov. 12, 2002, 06:26:09 PM EST

Disprove it then, cowards. Give a Repo as a counter-example. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (84) - Nov. 12, 2002, 08:44:37 PM EST

sorry what are you refering to? -NT - (boxley) - Nov. 12, 2002, 10:00:01 PM EST

These (examples) are Legion, of course.. - (Ashton) - (81) - Nov. 12, 2002, 10:01:05 PM EST

Stick it up.... - (bepatient) - (52) - Nov. 13, 2002, 02:06:36 AM EST

Well, then, take up mmoffitt's challenge - (jb4) - (51) - Nov. 13, 2002, 09:15:42 AM EST

Start at the top (f*****g bog) - (bepatient) - (50) - Nov. 13, 2002, 11:07:17 AM EST

Re: Start at the top (f*****g bog) - (deSitter) - (49) - Nov. 13, 2002, 11:17:14 AM EST

No it wasn't. - (bepatient) - (48) - Nov. 13, 2002, 12:57:52 PM EST

Minor correction: - (jb4) - (47) - Nov. 13, 2002, 02:23:02 PM EST

<i>Zing!</i> - (deSitter) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2002, 02:25:46 PM EST

I like tomatoes. - (bepatient) - Nov. 13, 2002, 02:51:03 PM EST

Guess you can't read. - (bepatient) - (43) - Nov. 13, 2002, 02:49:41 PM EST

I can - (deSitter) - (8) - Nov. 13, 2002, 05:01:28 PM EST

Well maybe... - (bepatient) - (7) - Nov. 13, 2002, 06:09:33 PM EST

Beep, sorry, gotta disagree here... - (inthane-chan) - (6) - Nov. 13, 2002, 07:21:58 PM EST

Exactly who are you disgreeing with? - (bepatient) - (5) - Nov. 13, 2002, 06:20:22 PM EST

Mea culpa. - (inthane-chan) - (4) - Nov. 13, 2002, 07:22:47 PM EST

Well... - (bepatient) - (3) - Nov. 13, 2002, 07:32:39 PM EST

That's what I get for jumping in the middle of a thread... - (inthane-chan) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2002, 09:39:05 PM EST

Oh, it's hardly a fluke... - (jb4) - (1) - Nov. 15, 2002, 08:49:36 AM EST

Hey - I didn't say it was THEIR fluke... :P -NT - (inthane-chan) - Nov. 15, 2002, 10:46:26 AM EST

Pshaw, BeeP - (Ashton) - (5) - Nov. 13, 2002, 05:27:43 PM EST

If you have a point... - (bepatient) - (4) - Nov. 13, 2002, 05:34:37 PM EST

Yes, in fact it seems that they Are: wannabes. Thou sayest. - (Ashton) - (3) - Nov. 13, 2002, 06:00:02 PM EST

o0o -NT - (bepatient) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2002, 06:22:02 PM EST

Parochial minds everywhere salute thy speechlessness.oO0Oo. -NT - (Ashton) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2002, 06:26:32 PM EST

Hey bud...tried to bring you on subject... - (bepatient) - Nov. 13, 2002, 06:28:07 PM EST

I guess I can write better than you can read. - (jb4) - (27) - Nov. 14, 2002, 07:26:49 PM EST

So "you" doesn't actually mean me when you're talking... - (bepatient) - (26) - Nov. 14, 2002, 10:00:59 PM EST

So, does improved test scores == better education? - (jb4) - (25) - Nov. 15, 2002, 08:58:11 AM EST

Until you offer a better methodology... - (bepatient) - (24) - Nov. 15, 2002, 12:00:14 PM EST

Platitudes, platitudes, platitudes! - (jb4) - (23) - Nov. 15, 2002, 01:27:17 PM EST

*sigh* - Alternatives? -NT - (bepatient) - (17) - Nov. 15, 2002, 02:06:04 PM EST

How about... - (mmoffitt) - (16) - Nov. 15, 2002, 02:25:16 PM EST

*sigh*2 - Alternatives? - (bepatient) - (15) - Nov. 15, 2002, 02:46:04 PM EST

? - (mmoffitt) - (14) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:07:39 PM EST

I didn't read it that way - (wharris2) - (1) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:32:55 PM EST

*clap* -NT - (bepatient) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:38:41 PM EST

Not quite. - (bepatient) - (11) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:38:00 PM EST

But not your implicit presumption throughout: - (Ashton) - (10) - Nov. 15, 2002, 06:58:09 PM EST

Xactly. Well said. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (7) - Nov. 16, 2002, 11:52:14 AM EST

It might very well have been. - (bepatient) - (6) - Nov. 16, 2002, 01:52:16 PM EST

Notwithstanding this thread's length, - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Nov. 16, 2002, 04:40:00 PM EST

I doubt that very much. - (bepatient) - (3) - Nov. 16, 2002, 09:33:28 PM EST

How about a *civilized* population, while we're at it ?? - (Ashton) - (2) - Nov. 17, 2002, 12:36:22 AM EST

Priceless - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 17, 2002, 02:53:52 PM EST

We have no? little disagreement re Basics - (Ashton) - Nov. 17, 2002, 09:19:23 PM EST

No, 'saying it' won't. - (Ashton) - Nov. 16, 2002, 07:08:27 PM EST

What do you prefer? - (wharris2) - (1) - Nov. 16, 2002, 09:11:10 PM EST

Re: What do you prefer? - (Ashton) - Nov. 17, 2002, 12:57:54 AM EST

As an aside, what's with diagramming anyway? - (wharris2) - (4) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:30:29 PM EST

Re: As an aside, what's with diagramming anyway? - (jb4) - Nov. 18, 2002, 10:09:32 AM EST

Re: As an aside, what's with diagramming anyway? - (deSitter) - (2) - Nov. 18, 2002, 10:22:06 AM EST

Yahoo! - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 18, 2002, 10:38:31 AM EST

Re: Yahoo! - (deSitter) - Nov. 18, 2002, 10:54:57 AM EST

VERY Nicely done. Thank you. -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 13, 2002, 08:18:48 PM EST

Apologies. But here is our fork. - (mmoffitt) - (27) - Nov. 13, 2002, 08:42:34 PM EST

ROFLMAO! I wrote the above before reading BP's last! -NT - (mmoffitt) - Nov. 13, 2002, 08:46:26 PM EST

All of that...an rofl... - (bepatient) - (19) - Nov. 13, 2002, 10:23:51 PM EST

Hmmmm. - (mmoffitt) - (18) - Nov. 14, 2002, 11:20:38 AM EST

Allow me to disagree. - (Simon_Jester) - (17) - Nov. 14, 2002, 11:31:26 AM EST

True, the real culprit is US. - (mmoffitt) - (5) - Nov. 14, 2002, 11:57:13 AM EST

Figures. Throw money at it. - (bepatient) - (4) - Nov. 14, 2002, 12:11:21 PM EST

You think the current salary is just right? - (Silverlock) - (3) - Nov. 14, 2002, 01:44:20 PM EST

Don't even try that. - (bepatient) - (2) - Nov. 14, 2002, 02:02:45 PM EST

Nothing "blind" about it - (Silverlock) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2002, 02:41:36 PM EST

See under boxley. - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2002, 03:06:45 PM EST

May I add one... - (screamer) - (10) - Nov. 14, 2002, 01:05:33 PM EST

Ever the optimist still...eh DR? - (bepatient) - (8) - Nov. 14, 2002, 01:56:24 PM EST

I basically agree, but would make one distinction... - (screamer) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2002, 03:14:51 PM EST

Damned earthquakes... - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2002, 03:39:35 PM EST

Another reason - slippery slope. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2002, 03:15:17 PM EST

However you categorize it.... - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2002, 03:46:43 PM EST

Hardly the only reason against vouchers. - (Simon_Jester) - (3) - Nov. 14, 2002, 03:31:45 PM EST

A minor nit... - (screamer) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2002, 04:25:18 PM EST

No argument - (Simon_Jester) - Nov. 14, 2002, 04:46:36 PM EST

Re: same rules and regs - (Silverlock) - Nov. 14, 2002, 04:41:39 PM EST

I stand corrected: we Can still create an informative thread - (Ashton) - Nov. 14, 2002, 11:29:15 PM EST

One other question. - (bepatient) - (2) - Nov. 13, 2002, 10:30:58 PM EST

I dont know about upwards but it sure does sideways around - (boxley) - (1) - Nov. 14, 2002, 12:11:11 AM EST

damned radical - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2002, 01:16:55 AM EST

Proof! - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - Nov. 13, 2002, 11:32:10 PM EST

rofl -NT - (bepatient) - Nov. 14, 2002, 01:13:41 AM EST

Re: But here is our fork - make that skewer. Here's mine- - (Ashton) - Nov. 14, 2002, 05:56:09 AM EST

Here's one.... - (screamer) - Nov. 14, 2002, 12:20:15 PM EST

As a Democrat - (Simon_Jester) - (3) - Nov. 6, 2002, 12:51:47 PM EST

Say-WHAT?!? - (jb4) - (2) - Nov. 6, 2002, 01:46:11 PM EST

he will do the same thing democrat tony knowles did in AK - (boxley) - Nov. 6, 2002, 02:03:09 PM EST

Give Jeb credit... - (Simon_Jester) - Nov. 6, 2002, 02:15:54 PM EST

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