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New The short-fingered vulgarian loses his shit
As Charles Pierce so eloquently puts it.
All the hinges are gone now. The rails are far behind. The trolley is missing and presumed lost. The president* came down to the lobby of his Manhattan tower, ostensibly to sign an executive order on "infrastructure." He then took questions and we all went on a magic carpet ride through what he really thinks about the events in Charlottesville last weekend. For three days, whatever sensible people remain at Camp Runamuck have been trying to find some way to run damage control on the president*'s initial, ridiculous non-response to those events, whereupon, on Tuesday, the president* stepped up to the mic and blew all that work into tiny bits. Quite simply, the only president* we have lost his shit so badly on live TV that he'll never be able to find it again.
Go read the whole thing, which is worth it, although I should note for the record our old comrade D. Ross Lunsford’s take on Pierce, posted on the Book of Face: “what an insufferable blowhard, and he can't write worth a damn. There's a reason people hate liberals. I'm a liberal and this self-righteous gasbag embarrasses me.”

I caught only a brief portion of Dolt 45’s remarks on the radio. Remember when people used to say “This time he’s gone too far!” and expect consequences? Well, Lucy’s yanked that football too many times. The short-fingered vulgarian is going to go much, much farther down that road, and we are yoked to that Long March. The late Bill Patient objected strenuously to the notion that fascism had even a latent presence in the American id. I wonder what he would have made of these brownshirts, and of the man at the head of the column?

cordially,
New watched some of his remarks while catching up on email
. There was a group on this side — you can call them the left, you just called them the left — that came violently attacking the other group.
did that happen? What little video I saw was that some of both sides came dressed up like the Renaissance fair participants. I wondered if there would have been any violence at all if the shitkickers from both the right and the left had stayed up north where they came from. Why do all the damn yankees want to come to the south to do battle? Kill each other back in ohio for dogs sake. If they had a pretty young lady FROM the deep south might still be alive. Saw those white pieces of garbage beating a young black man with sticks. Why didnt one of those dear yankee photographers who were there to support "their" side jump in and stop them? Go fucking home and shit disturb there. Let the south sort out their own issues.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New There’s considerable historical evidence by now
…some of it in living memory, about how the South behaves when it’s left alone to “sort out their own issues.” Or did you sleep through the past several decades?

southern
New Re: There’s considerable historical evidence by now
I suppose the black mayor of the town in pic you presented wanted that to happen? That age is gone. All the Yankee white asshole nazis from Ohio will not bring it back.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Yes, there is racism everywhere.
But it's Virginia laws that prevent these monuments from being removed. Protests in Virginia are entirely appropriate.

Whataboutery is really beneath you, here.

Cheers,
Scott.
New sorry no whataboutery at all
antifa stupid fuckers but their heart is in the right place
neofuckwitkkknazi scum that need to stay in their fucking hovels to be gobsmacked if they stick their nose out.

But it's Virginia laws that prevent these monuments from being removed. Protests in Virginia are entirely appropriate.
violence being started ensued and encouraged by asshats from north of the mason dixon line? Not fucking hardly
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Have you seen (reputable) reports of how many participants were from outside VA?
Richard Spencer lives in NoVA (or at least has an apartment in the area). Is it somehow better that he's not from Ohio or California?

Does it really matter if one side or the other had more out of state protesters than the other? Americans shouldn't be able to travel to another city or state to protest?

Were the Freedom Riders wrong to go to Alabama, Mississippi, and elsewhere, to do things that the local authorities (and others) didn't like?

I'm having trouble following your argument here. I think we all agree that there are racists everywhere. People in the North have no monopoly on virtue. But I don't know of an example of some Northern state or local government arguing that Confederate memorials can never be removed.

Gandhi was an 'outside agitator' also too.

Cheers,
Scott.
New well I am glad you are finally coming around, the north does have racist assholes
Does it really matter if one side or the other had more out of state protesters than the other? Americans shouldn't be able to travel to another city or state to protest?

Protest yes, kill and savagely beat other people no. I dont care what flag you are flying when you do that.

Did the freedom riders in mississippi bring clubs and shields to selma? I dont think so and it was the savagery from the other side that started the slow climb out of the horror.

Is being black living in Compton safer than being black living in Selma today? Lot less chance of being beaten, falsly accused arrested and shot in Selma in my opinion. Perhaps the Berkely Grandee may have a different one.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Eh?
http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/402262/

We're going around in circles again... :-/

Cheers,
Scott.
New (Thanks, again for your 'actually-Organized!' Linkie-sets :-)
/Me keeps waiting for HAL-9000 clone to be marketed: ain't seen nary a one yet :-/

TMI + AI + (a pig-iggerant collection of illegible dis-U.S.Tribes) = (an equation we don't really want to Ponder, next. Eh?]
New no, this time you didnt try to claim the racist from ohio was really decended from kentukians
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Why would anyone claim that?
Considering he was born in Kentucky and lived there until earlier this year, why would anyone go for "descended from Kentuckians"?
--

Drew
New What's the bigger problem?
There are violent racist assholes in the South. There are also violent racist assholes in the North. You seem to think we don't all know that.

When some of the northerners make a pilgrimage to the South to stir shit up, and locals turn out in support, is the critical part of that story that it was outsiders leading the rally?

That's why we keep talking past each other. I don't give a fuck where people are from, I care what they do. That doesn't mean I don't notice it's southern states that hang white supremacist flags on their statehouses.
--

Drew
New Re: What's the bigger problem?
dont go elsewhere to maim people. Stay home and maim your locals. Is it really that hard?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Well OK ... I thought it was obvious "don't maim people" should be the point
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook Aug. 17, 2017, 07:40:34 PM EDT
New well if you have to maim someone do it at home where it will be more finely appreciated
by your neighbors cops and prosecutors who know you
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New No. DON'T MAIM PEOPLE. Full stop.
--

Drew
New you live in Ohio, it has not stopped anyone there for a thousand years
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New No, whataboutery isnt beneath him; it's his standard MO. Doesn't going-around-in-circles prove that?
New “Old times there are not forgotten”
That age is gone.
Oh, yeah, I forgot all about the Day of Jubilee. Jeff Sessions is, like, totally on board with civil rights. The Civil War was totally not about slavery, and those monuments were all erected in the spirit of racial harmony and the brotherhood of men. Pull the other one, box. It’s got a fucking bell on it.
New sure, what state has the most hate groups? Oh it the wunnerful state of california
keep you hate folks in your state, dont let them travel here.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Re: sure, what state has the most hate groups? Oh it the wunnerful state of california
Might that be something to do with the fact that California has, with 39M people, the largest population of all the states?

In fact, I'd hazard a guess that California has the most of lots of things.
New [!!] ;^>
Badumm.. ... Tish.
New Please post pics of the "Alt-Left's" Praetorian Guards with assault rifles in Charlottesville, eh?
If you can't find any, then stop echoing Trump's Whataboutery and Bothsideisms.

But, hey -- you already know you aren't going to find any pics of that, don't you? Because you already know nothing like that went on.

You're just echoing that dreck because you have absolutely no fucking shame at all, not to mention the least shred of an inkling on what "intellectual honesty" means.

How the fuck do you even live with yourself?
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New dunno did the black panthers show up?
so you are all in on people from elsewhere in america coming to the south to kill locals to support your vision of america. You would have fit right in in 1860. Besides you would have made money standing in for a draftee who wanted no part of it.

All fun aside this was planned and executed to ensure violence took place with 2 separate groups one good and one evil(nazi fucks in case you needed that pointed out to you) from elsewhere to deliver charlottesville into a nightmare. Both sides need to take their shit back to their own doorstep.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Post pics of them in Charlottesville armed with assault rifles or STFU, you lying liar.
"Dunno", i.e more waddabouttery: "What if they were...?" Yeah, well, what if the moon were made out of green cheese?

And yes, I certainly hope that if I'd lived in America in 1860, I would have gone "to the south to kill locals to support [my] vision of america" -- that is, enlisted in the U.S. Army and gone and fought against the traitors who rebelled to preserve slavery. What, you wouldn't?!? Duh, I guess one shouldn't be surprised that you lack even that basic decency. Funny, though, that you seem to not even have realised that that was what you were saying.

The fact that you apparently don't even notice how totally disconnected your "arguments" are from anything resembling consistency and logic indicates that you're not just occasionally indulging in temporarily being an arsehole, but that you're fundamentally incapable of not being an arsehole.

Forrest Gump: "Stupid is as stupid does."

Corollary: If someone keeps "being an arsehole" all the time, then he is an arsehole.

Haven't seen you doing anything else since about forever.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New I am glad you support people coming to the south to kill other people in 2017, shows your mind set
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New No pics, I note. The guys with ARs in the pics I saw were all on the Nazi side.
And no, since I don't know of any Black Panthers having travelled there from out-of-state to kill anyone -- know no more of such than you, who claim it but consistently refuse to back up your claim -- there is no basis to any claim that I "support" such. Are you claiming you're too stupid to realise that, or just too mendacious to admit it?

It has to be one or the other, and neither is particularly flattering for you. But I'm honestly curious as to which you think is less damning, so please tell us: Which one is it?

Also: Pics of Black Panthers with assault rifles in Charlottesville last weekend or STFU.

...

But, who am I kidding... Will you do either? No, of course not. When asked a simple question, you refuse to actually respond, but still apparently just _have to_ reply with some reiteration of your previous blither -- no matter that it's already either been disproved, or counter-argued and is now waiting for some counter-counter from you. If there is no such, then just pretend you didn't hear.

1) Do you really want to claim there is any difference between your behaviour in these discussions and that of a monkey throwing its own feces at the walls?

2) Do you have any intellectual honesty at all? Are you physically capable of admitting -- or even realising? -- when you are wrong? Did neither of your parents teach you basic decency to the extent of ever admitting "I was wrong, sorry", and then _not_ immediately turn around and spout the same shit again?

If either of them did, it must have been too long ago: You've clearly forgotten the lesson.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New quit beating that straw man with your red herring
I have never claimed that the black panthers were there and armed. My father has been dead since I was 14 years old and me mum has been mad as a hatter her entire life but what has that got to do with the price of tea in china?
Hey I have said I was sorry when I made a mistake once and someone said is was the most powerful apology he had ever seen (or most begrudging, I forget which)
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New :-)
New Toles helps boxley explain it for us
dday
New One DOES so-despise so. Much. of. his 'very, very Limited vocabulary' but, personally I find
that: the ..very, very incessant repetition Grates about the Most..
New "Alt-Left" is not a thing
Let's not start using the phrase and accept the framing.
--

Drew
New Re: "Alt-Left" is not a thing correct it is antifa
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New I don't know what his problem is with removing confederate statues
I thought conservatives would be fully in favour of the removal of "participation awards" for losers.
New Zing! I'll be stealing that.
--

Drew
New You are so.. Baaad..
New nice, I am so stealing that
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Whatchagonna use it for - you're the one *defending* the people defending the loser-traitor-statues?
New Box likes poking our buttons.
He's well aware of the problems of racism and all it entails.

I think, here, he's mainly arguing that locals should work it out. That's why he's bringing up outsiders coming in and causing trouble. He's not defending the statues, he's saying outsiders (pro or anti) have no business coming in and rioting and getting people killed.

I think that's a far too narrow view of what's happening there, and elsewhere, myself. UVa is a nationally (and internationally) known university. It has an important history (founded by our 3rd President). The town of Charlottesville is a melting pot with students and families from all over the world, and an island of sanity in that part of Virginia.

Americans have the right to express their views about what's going on in this country, to petition their governments, to freely associate, and all the rest. "Outside agitators" are often an important first step in productive change and progress. The anti-Nazi protesters were a reflection of some of the best of America. And seeing neo-Nazis out in public, letting their hate out, is occasionally necessary so that we can see what they're really like and see the importance of fighting them.

But more than having a right, we have an obligation to confront them.

A caller made the point on "1A" on NPR yesterday that Henry Ford wrote screeds for years about all kinds of horrible things that The International Jew caused and collected them into books.

Influence on Nazi Anti-Semitism[edit]

Ford's International Jew was translated into German in 1922 and was cited as an influence by Baldur von Schirach, one of the Nazis' leaders, who stated "I read it and became anti-Semitic. In those days this book made such a deep impression on my friends and myself because we saw in Henry Ford the representative of success, also the exponent of a progressive social policy. In the poverty-stricken and wretched Germany of the time, youth looked toward America, and apart from the great benefactor, Herbert Hoover, it was Henry Ford who to us represented America."[6] Ford is the only American mentioned in Hitler's Mein Kampf, but is only mentioned once in one sentence, where Hitler writes "Every year makes them [American Jews] more and more the controlling masters of the producers in a nation of one hundred and twenty millions; only a single great man, Ford, to their fury still maintains full independence."


Horrifying.

We, as Americans, have a duty to fight this stuff - wherever it is in our country.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New And I don't like that.
What law of nature is it that says he gets to indulge his likes at my -- our -- expense and I just get to take it?

He "likes to poke our buttons" by being an asshole, so I reserve the right to point out that that is what he is.

Anybody doesn't like _that,_ then either they get to take it just like I apparently do, or take it up with the BOx.

---

As for all the rest of your post: No, I actually don't think he's aware of pretty much fucking anything.

If he were, then he wouldn't _so consistently_ be an arsehole about pretty much fucking everything.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New a bit annoying to be sure...
on the other paw, with like and a trifling amount of change, you can send a post card. Like should probably not be part of the calculus.
He is not arguing a point for any other reason than to get a rise out of someone. Indulge or not; your choice. If you go for it, there's always a bunny for him to split.
"Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable."
~ AMBROSE BIERCE
(1842-1914)
New depends which statue if the state put it up to snort in the direction of the oppressed, tear it down
and sell it for scrap. If it is a true piece of art move it to a museum and put a plaque where it used to be explaining the historical context of it.

Duke university co-director human rights
renowned la artist
Smithsonian national museum kinda agree with me

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/arts/design/confederate-statues-artists-preservationists-trump.html
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New also I am in no way *defending* the people defending the loser-traitor-stat
my whole point here is stay the fuck up north and kill each other all you want. A girl is dead because some fucking nazifucker from ohio wanted to be a big shot. That fucker and his bretheren are no different than the arseholes in barcelona.

Same goes for the antifa, if they want to act like soccer hooligans get an english accent and buy some man u tickets or stay the fuck home. There are plenty of people in Virginia that will be more than happy to give nazis the fucking boot. They dont need outsiders to do it for them.
Sorry Nother, that is my point of view.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New You seem to really care that he drive from Ohio
He was born and raised in Kentucky and just moved to Ohio earlier this year. Still an outsider, but not an Ohioan.
--

Drew
New A girl is dead because some fucking nazifucker from kentucky
I just read what was reported that he was from ohio. He could have been from oakland california from rand's block for all I care. He should of stayed home and killed someone locally.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Your first comment in this thread
Why do all the damn yankees want to come to the south to do battle? Kill each other back in ohio for dogs sake. If they had a pretty young lady FROM the deep south might still be alive.
Do I need to spell out how that's not what you're saying now?
--

Drew
New I am still saying that He drove the muder weapon from ohio other yankees were there fighting as well
Many of the armed men viewed their role as maintaining a modicum of order. A “Three Percenter” militia out of New York state posted itself near Emancipation Park with the intention of keeping anti-racists from disrupting the rally. The group says it disapproves of racism but is dedicated to defending the free speech rights of all.

Blocks away, Redneck Revolt, a leftist militia from North Carolina, watched over the perimeter of a park where anti-racists had gathered, committed to preventing violent attacks by the white supremacist groups.https://www.mintpressnews.com/new-generation-white-supremacists-emerges-charlottesville/230871/
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New OK then.. parsing just that Lone Sentence:
I CAN see a few dozen 'WHYS' that jes' oodles of Not-from-da-Souf folk might.. want to answer an internal/hypothetical Query, to wit:

~~Do I Really want to Go-->down. there. to Kick some Ass/lance some boils on-the-asshole-of Humanity ... say?

Then that inner-voice tosses-in:
Violet Liuzzo, Cheney, *Emmett fucking- Till ... and a host of Others, across the decades, as demonstrated the utter ruthlessness of them Southrin Torturers-in-acxtion == FUCK their charmin patter over their brim-full glasses of Southrin Discomfort and other depressants in blood-streams.

* Y'all REMEMBER this lad, RIGHT? (visiting from Up-North (for the summer..Hah. As-If....) He is said to have whistled at the White Female proprietor of some snack-store .... y'know, like: YOUTH EVERYWHERE just MIGHT do?.
They rousted him in the night--as so often Do these Courtly-Cowards--either behind their sheets--or with other camouflage. These disgusting sub-humans then TORTURED this child to DEATH:
All so evident via decision of the Mother: requiring an un-beautified OPEN COFFIN funeral.
(Look it up, those who haven't re-visited that little slice of Da Spirit O'da Suwanee-immersed Souf.. in all its gory.)

So YEAH.. by ALL MEANS let future battles over-and-Against White Supremacy BE:
on the bloody-grounds of the same perps against whom: we so FOOLishly chose to counter! their efforts to secede, as would have removed that shit-laced boil on the asshole of then-'humanity'.

(That there are full-immoral-equivalents to be found across the North, then and now, also too: is a fact which cannot elide the Fact of the South's entirely $$$-based Interest in their Nigras-as-chattels.)
$$$-greed Mainly-if-not-Alone set the 'Standards' that enslavement is OK because we Make Lots of Money by stealing these PERSONS' LIVES and via the utter B.S. of their 'sub-standard IQs' as implicit justification
..to behave Hideously ... as shut-mah-mouf-Ha-Ha-Ha Base-Pricks.

Fuck'em then. It won't atone nor erase whatever IS the %skin-heads in da New Souf [??]
But it will be: chickens comin home to Roost, I wot.


Carrion
goes well with Southrun Discomfort by-the-keg.
New ya gotta remember that "bull" conner and all of the other dreck that inhabited the place
were that way because the democratic party wuz runnin the place. They are no longer in charge.
Ya know dey even have black folks in charge in some places. hotlanta now is run by a black man and even some of the school boards have black folk onem. Wimmins too.
ya'll come back now yahea
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Non-sequiturs...
     The short-fingered vulgarian loses his shit - (rcareaga) - (50)
         watched some of his remarks while catching up on email - (boxley) - (32)
             There’s considerable historical evidence by now - (rcareaga) - (20)
                 Re: There’s considerable historical evidence by now - (boxley) - (19)
                     Yes, there is racism everywhere. - (Another Scott) - (14)
                         sorry no whataboutery at all - (boxley) - (12)
                             Have you seen (reputable) reports of how many participants were from outside VA? - (Another Scott) - (11)
                                 well I am glad you are finally coming around, the north does have racist assholes - (boxley) - (10)
                                     Eh? - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                         (Thanks, again for your 'actually-Organized!' Linkie-sets :-) - (Ashton)
                                         no, this time you didnt try to claim the racist from ohio was really decended from kentukians -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                             Why would anyone claim that? - (drook)
                                     What's the bigger problem? - (drook) - (5)
                                         Re: What's the bigger problem? - (boxley) - (4)
                                             Well OK ... I thought it was obvious "don't maim people" should be the point -NT - (drook) - (3)
                                                 well if you have to maim someone do it at home where it will be more finely appreciated - (boxley) - (2)
                                                     No. DON'T MAIM PEOPLE. Full stop. -NT - (drook) - (1)
                                                         you live in Ohio, it has not stopped anyone there for a thousand years -NT - (boxley)
                         No, whataboutery isnt beneath him; it's his standard MO. Doesn't going-around-in-circles prove that? -NT - (CRConrad)
                     “Old times there are not forgotten” - (rcareaga) - (3)
                         sure, what state has the most hate groups? Oh it the wunnerful state of california - (boxley) - (2)
                             Re: sure, what state has the most hate groups? Oh it the wunnerful state of california - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                 [!!] ;^> - (Ashton)
             Please post pics of the "Alt-Left's" Praetorian Guards with assault rifles in Charlottesville, eh? - (CRConrad) - (10)
                 dunno did the black panthers show up? - (boxley) - (5)
                     Post pics of them in Charlottesville armed with assault rifles or STFU, you lying liar. - (CRConrad) - (4)
                         I am glad you support people coming to the south to kill other people in 2017, shows your mind set -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                             No pics, I note. The guys with ARs in the pics I saw were all on the Nazi side. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                 quit beating that straw man with your red herring - (boxley) - (1)
                                     :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                 Toles helps boxley explain it for us - (rcareaga) - (1)
                     One DOES so-despise so. Much. of. his 'very, very Limited vocabulary' but, personally I find - (Ashton)
                 "Alt-Left" is not a thing - (drook) - (1)
                     Re: "Alt-Left" is not a thing correct it is antifa -NT - (boxley)
         I don't know what his problem is with removing confederate statues - (pwhysall) - (16)
             Zing! I'll be stealing that. -NT - (drook)
             You are so.. Baaad.. -NT - (Ashton)
             nice, I am so stealing that -NT - (boxley) - (13)
                 Whatchagonna use it for - you're the one *defending* the people defending the loser-traitor-statues? -NT - (CRConrad) - (12)
                     Box likes poking our buttons. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                         And I don't like that. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                             a bit annoying to be sure... - (hnick)
                     depends which statue if the state put it up to snort in the direction of the oppressed, tear it down - (boxley)
                     also I am in no way *defending* the people defending the loser-traitor-stat - (boxley) - (7)
                         You seem to really care that he drive from Ohio - (drook) - (6)
                             A girl is dead because some fucking nazifucker from kentucky - (boxley) - (5)
                                 Your first comment in this thread - (drook) - (4)
                                     I am still saying that He drove the muder weapon from ohio other yankees were there fighting as well - (boxley)
                                     OK then.. parsing just that Lone Sentence: - (Ashton) - (2)
                                         ya gotta remember that "bull" conner and all of the other dreck that inhabited the place - (boxley) - (1)
                                             Non-sequiturs... -NT - (Another Scott)

It's like a nuclear blast in the basement.
241 ms