Post #415,409
11/11/16 9:20:53 AM
11/11/16 9:20:53 AM
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I see we still can't agree on the basic facts, let alone the interpretation.
The incompetent Democratic party has won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections.
Somehow a majority of Democratic voters expressing their opinion on who they want as leaders is invalid and incorrect because somehow the all-powerful DLC/DNC Cabal made them do it. But that all-powerful cabal is simultaneously impotent at getting their agenda passed, so they need to be replaced by a different all-powerful cabal that is the Vanguard of the Revolution that will tell voters what to think. Or something.
Supposedly 100,000 votes spread over 3 states would have given Hillary the victory. And GOP voter suppression efforts could easily account for that number of votes. But, no, the only possible explanation is that the all-powerful DLC/DNC cabal prevented an old shouty socialist who had effectively no support in the party base (minorities and women), who wasn't a member of the party, who had been in DC for decades and did little but carp from the sidelines about how Corrupt™ it all is while not getting any significant support to try to make things better, from winning the nomination and thus voters decided to burn it all down. And the GOP had nothing to do with all the things you decry. Ergo, it's all Terry McAuliffe's fault. QED.
Is that about it?
(sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #415,410
11/11/16 9:26:10 AM
11/11/16 9:26:10 AM
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^^ that
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Post #415,411
11/11/16 9:47:42 AM
11/11/16 9:47:42 AM
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Why do you continue to refuse to recognize the obvious?
You CANNOT expect to win the electoral college (and you know as well as I that the popular vote doesn't mean a damned thing) if you ignore the Working class. But this new Democratic Party not only ignored them this time, they officially called them "deplorable." This new Democratic Party's President Obama (as someone in the British Press noted) spent more time focusing on which bathroom people should use than the plight of America's working class. And when he did work on something that impacted the working class, what did he do? He tried to kick them again with the TPP. The Democratic Party needs to listen to what once would have been called Standard Issue New Deal Democrats who are now called "shouty old Socialists" by New Democrats if they ever want to again return to power. You keep citing the 50% or so of people who voted. What about the 50% who don't? How many of them do you think would vote for more Right Wing policies? The Progressive Left is not the enemy. We're trying to save the Party. We're trying to get the Party into a position where they won't suffer the disgrace of losing to a privileged, deranged orangutan ever again. We've been telling you for over a year that if you continue to focus solely on the top 10% and identity politics you will *lose*. The old saying applies here in spades, "You run a Republican against a Republican and ..." Like it or not, the Democratic Party is going to need the "deplorables" if they are going to win where it counts: the electoral college, the State legislatures, the Congress and the Senate. Republican Lite isn't going to cut it anymore. Our policies have to be at least as good to them as we've been to Wall Street since 1992 or they won't show up, or worse, continue to be so disgusted with us that they'll actually vote for a turd over one more of our corporatists. Weaver pretty accurately diagnoses the problem. "Clearly what this election demonstrated -- from the primaries through the general election -- was that the centrist, more moderate wing of the (Democratic) party has no standing with working class and middle class voters in this country," said Jeff Weaver, who was campaign manager for Clinton's Democratic rival, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.
"It's time for the progressive wing to reassert themselves and offer a bold agenda to the American people," Weaver said. "The real losers in this campaign were the Democratic and Republican establishments. People clearly wanted change. Trump became the vehicle for that change in the general election. I think many people voted for him in spite of his outrageous positions, as opposed to in favor of them. So we need to demonstrate to people that we stand with them, not with the wealthy and powerful." http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/democrats-election-2016/index.htmlbcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,412
11/11/16 10:53:45 AM
11/11/16 10:53:45 AM
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Sore Loserman says he was Right. Film at 11.
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Post #415,413
11/11/16 11:08:38 AM
11/11/16 11:08:38 AM
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That's disappointing.
But it doesn't mean he isn't right in my quote of him. This, from the comments, IMnsHO is telling. He seems to be choosing well in my state. We here would like to get rid of more than a few of democratic senators and reps who are not representing our interests.
We are being given no options other than voting republican. We need better options. You want more of the same? Change nothing. But, and let me be the first to say this, if the Democrats nominate another Wall Street Shill in 2020, they will lose again. bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,414
11/11/16 11:38:46 AM
11/11/16 11:38:46 AM
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OTOH, with the tremendous drag at the top of the ticket, ...
They did pretty well after all. More of their candidates won than lost (55%). Just imagine how much better they'd have done without all those "Straight Ticket Republican" ballots cast against Hillary. https://ourrevolution.com/election-2016/bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,415
11/11/16 11:45:09 AM
11/11/16 11:45:09 AM
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Yeah, they supported ~ 6 House Democrats who won. Feel the Power of the Bern. :-/
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Post #415,419
11/11/16 12:17:34 PM
11/11/16 12:17:34 PM
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When you're rebuilding a political party, you've got to start somewhere, Sport. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,421
11/11/16 12:27:51 PM
11/11/16 12:27:51 PM
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Re: When you're rebuilding a political party, you've got to start somewhere, Sport. ;0)
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Post #415,422
11/11/16 1:15:14 PM
11/11/16 1:15:14 PM
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Um, you do know he campaigned for Her in 12 states, right?
bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,425
11/11/16 3:15:20 PM
11/11/16 3:15:20 PM
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So what. That's *everything*?
Bernie was much more interested in pushing his oh-so-pure brand and starting his not-a-PAC PAC than helping Hillary.
Did he take back his constant insinuations that she was Corrupt™? That she was in the pocket of the Millionaires and Billionaires™? No, he did not.
Bernie was all about Bernie and remains that way today.
He could have done much more to help her, but he didn't. Don't pretend that he did.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #415,428
11/11/16 3:24:02 PM
11/11/16 3:24:02 PM
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What the heck could he have done that he didn't?
She was a reprehensible candidate. That's on her and her supporters (see here, for example: http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/415424/ ). What exactly is it that you would have wished he'd done? Lie about her being a "change you can believe in" candidate instead of a status quo politician who had to be beaten into supporting weakened down Progressive policies in the Party Platform (not that many believed she'd do anything to pass that - particularly not after her choice of VP)? Seriously man, what could he have done? She was a horrible, horrible candidate from a party that has embraced horrible, horrible ideas for the past 30 years. What was he to do about that? bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,429
11/11/16 3:47:03 PM
11/11/16 3:47:04 PM
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He didn't do *everything*. He damaged her and the party. He should have done more.
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Post #415,431
11/11/16 4:08:05 PM
11/11/16 4:08:51 PM
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That's "Everything Possible".
So, again, WHAT did he not do that you expected from him? If campaigning for Her - including TELLING HIS SUPPORTERS TO VOTE FOR HER wasn't enough to satisfy you, what, if anything, would have been? bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
Edited by mmoffitt
Nov. 11, 2016, 04:08:51 PM EST
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Post #415,432
11/11/16 5:15:20 PM
11/11/16 5:15:20 PM
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The sitting President campaigned for her more than Bernie did.
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Post #415,435
11/11/16 7:16:51 PM
11/11/16 7:16:51 PM
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trump rallying for clinton 82,400,000, did you have a point in there?
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
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Post #415,442
11/11/16 10:08:41 PM
11/11/16 10:08:41 PM
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You have to put it in quotes if you want it to work. ;-)
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Post #415,434
11/11/16 7:14:32 PM
11/11/16 7:14:32 PM
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well she is, he didnt want to be lying to the people
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
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Post #415,441
11/11/16 10:06:42 PM
11/11/16 10:06:42 PM
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Then why did he say he'd campaign and wok to elect her? Can't have it both ways.
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Post #415,499
11/15/16 6:01:51 PM
11/15/16 6:01:51 PM
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Well, maybe, MAYBE she shouldn't have insulted his supporters.
You think the cancelled joint appearances had nothing to do with what SHE said? And he even *DEFENDED* her for that! Bernie Sanders defended Hillary Clinton after leaked audio from a closed-door fundraiser revealed the eventual Democratic presidential nominee’s unflattering description of the young voters who backed her rival during the primary, however, previously scheduled Clinton campaign events featuring her former rival were suddenly postponed this week.
...
The Vermont senator defended Clinton Sunday during appearances on ABC and CNN, arguing that the two largely agree — even though Clinton dismissed some of Sanders’ policy positions as “false promises.”
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Asked whether Clinton’s remarks at the fundraiser amid their hotly contested Democratic primary bothered him, Sanders admitted, “Of course it does.” http://www.salon.com/2016/10/03/bernie-sanders-defends-hillary-clinton-over-leaked-fundraiser-audio-but-postpones-joint-campaign-event/If you really want the Democrats to fair better in the general going forward, you really need to start first by acknowledging that the Democrats lost the Presidential election because they ran the worst candidate they possibly could have.bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,500
11/15/16 6:23:56 PM
11/15/16 6:23:57 PM
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I think Lincoln Chafee would have done worse. ;-p
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Post #415,501
11/15/16 8:11:13 PM
11/15/16 8:11:13 PM
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nope because I would have voted for him
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
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Post #415,416
11/11/16 11:55:19 AM
11/11/16 11:55:19 AM
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She didn't call the working class deplorables. Why do you believe that?
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Post #415,418
11/11/16 12:15:31 PM
11/11/16 12:15:31 PM
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You're going to defend what she said? *BOGGLE*
It doesn't matter what she intended, it's what the people in the "Fly Over" region of the country the coasts (both of them) like to mock and deride incessantly heard. Why would you call any Americans a "basket of deplorables" at the very time you are asking to be their President? Do you think that comment helped her? bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,420
11/11/16 12:24:12 PM
11/11/16 12:24:12 PM
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The KKK were supporting Trump. Should she not call them deplorable?
Other white nationalists were supporting Trump. Should she not call them deplorable?
Her point was these are the kinds of people supporting Trump. Do you really want to be on the same side as them? Sure, she didn't say it well. But the right-wing talking heads who picked up on it knew damn well who she was talking about and what she meant. But blowing it up was more entertaining, so that's what they did.
Either it worked on you - remember, you're the one who said "she called the working class deplorable" - or you think that she's responsible for giving a sound bite that's so easy to misconstrue.
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Post #415,423
11/11/16 2:10:55 PM
11/11/16 2:10:55 PM
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Re: The KKK were supporting Trump. Should she not call them deplorable?
Short answer: NO, of course she shouldn't have said it. By saying it she demonstrated clearly that she doesn't understand the majority non-racists in Fly Over country. Of course a good number of them internalized it because they're accustomed to being spoken of in such terms by what they consider elites (I'd be one of those, BTW, due to my having earned a Master's degree). A lot of those folks, displaced Union workers, have cause to feel that "deplorable" is the way their government must feel about them. Obama essentially said the same thing when he talked about people "clinging to their guns and bibles." The Liberal Elite have a long history of characterizing everyone in the MidWest in the worst terms imaginable - most importantly the working class of the Rust Belt who have had their futures stolen from them by the New Democrat's new buddies.
The point is, without regard to how you, I or anyone else feels about those people, they have enough power at the voting booth to stop virtually anyone. You alienate them at your own (and arguably your nation's) peril. If that almost self-evident lesson isn't learned even after the disaster of this year's Presidential election, there's very little reason (read: none) to hope things will improve. bcnu,
Mikem
I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right.
Christopher Hitchens.
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Post #415,436
11/11/16 7:18:53 PM
11/11/16 7:18:53 PM
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Re: The KKK were split on their support. many supported clinton
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
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Post #415,440
11/11/16 9:39:05 PM
11/11/16 9:39:05 PM
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Yes, exactly that
"Based on his past statements, it doesn’t appear highly credible that he has changed his effusive allegiance to Donald Trump,” Brian Levin, a former New York police officer who is director of the Centre for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University in San Bernardino, told the Telegraph. “The timing seems suspect. I think this is a function of not wanting to undermine the Trump campaign.”
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