Oh I know, you left yourself weasel room

Post #7,500 by Simon_Jester 9/2/01 1:27:51 PM Reply	Oh I know, you left yourself weasel room with the "Vast majority of..." line. I don't deny that. But what is interesting is that Reagan is given credit for 'turning around the economy'. Now...somehow, Presidents (for the most part) shouldn't be held accountable for the economy. And yes, you basically said this in-- And the economy thing should just validate the fact that it is not reality that he's speaking about...but his rabidly lopsided viewpoint that has all Republicans as evil, money grubbing satanists...or some such nonsense. Reagan inhereted the worst conomy in the history of this country, save the Depression, and the combined policies (and his appointments) gave us the longest expansion in history. All Clinton had to do was not rock the boat. [link\|http://pub13.ezboard.com/fiwetheypolitics.showMessage?topicID=978.topic&index=20\| source ]
Post #7,503 by bepatient 9/2/01 2:07:54 PM Reply	Well...lets see... First there was the appointment of Greenspan and the reduction of the highest tax brackets. Then (and the Dems were responsible for this) there was the HUGE increase in federal spending. All good things from a short term economic viewpoint. Then...OPEC decided (and this had nothing to do with government...and "decided" is kind of a misnomer) that oil prices should drop. And...the dollar decided to drop versus the rest of the worlds currencies..leading to a huge increase in foreign capital...mostly Japanese and German... And...all of these things made folks a little more likely to invest in the stock market...(now we're into the end of Bush and start of Clinton)...and since the market was good...people had more money to spend...which they...of course, did... Which caused the economy to expand faster...and so on...and so on... (keep in mind this is an oversimplification...no accounting for large employment and the investment of pensions...etc..on the value of the market...none of which involves gubment).... Then...something really bad happened...in combination...oil went to $30+ a barrel and natural gas went to $12/mcf and electricity followed (being largely dependent on the above 2 since the "greenies" forced everyone from coal and nuclear). These things were bad enough...but Greenspan...in his first real mistake...helped apply the brakes (which were goiong to be hit regardless) by raising the rates too quickly...leading to investor concern...dropping the market...people have less money...less spending...slower economy...higher energy costs..less profit for industry, less capital investment, job cuts, less consumer spending because of higher unemployment, (insert vicious cycle here)...and now its Sept 2001. And there's not a damn thing anyone is going to be able to do about it. Not GW, not AL Gore (even if he'd have won), not Clinton and not the ghost of Ronnie. The exact same thing that caused the disaster in the 70's has successfully squashed this latest expansion. All we can do now is soften the blow (reduce taxes...done...drop interest rates...done) and ride it out. The "experts" were saying it would last into the 4th qtr 2001...the indicators I see in doing my daily grind point to sometime in the 3rd qtr 2002. (of course...I'm not in government employ...so I don't have to worry about making anybody feel better) You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #7,515 by Simon_Jester 9/2/01 8:39:07 PM Reply	Well, I think you're still looking at the trees too much... but it's a fair assessment of the forest. There was a fairly nice upswing in the early 80's followed by a normal decline (which Bush senior got blamed for, imo). Clinton caught the end of the downswing and rode it back on the up and the economy as a whole has been about ready to go back to a downswing. (These downswing generally last 2-4 years, imo). But then again, I don't think Presidents can have any effect on the economy. Blaming Bush for the economy is as silly as praising Reagan for his. What I find interesting is that certain people are changing their tunes...
Post #7,527 by bepatient 9/2/01 11:09:20 PM Reply	Presidential politics... ...for what they're worth...are just that.... They will get credit or blame for what happens on their watch. However... I find it interesting that Ronnie got blamed for the deficits....since his action was to lower taxes...which increased government revenue (just as it should...anti-intuitive as it may seem) I find it interesting that the slams around here have GW responsible for the current economic slump...even though it had started almost a year before he took office. And some of the folks around here just seem to think that one side is BAD and one side is GOOD...and Ashton has it all figured out...that both sides are the same and the rest is just semantic bullshit. Some of the other things that bother me lately...the Democrats distancing themselves from Condit...when the only thing he did was sleep with an intern and then lie about it for a couple of months. And...what fun would arguing about politics be...if someone didn't come in here and take the other side...it'd just be one big liberal love-fest around here without me...(with some exceptions that I know of...being even more hard line Libertarian than myself. Whoopee! You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

Welcome to IWETHEY!