Hmmm - seeing horns too -

Post #44,514 by Ashton 7/5/02 3:41:26 AM Reply	Hmmm - seeing horns too - a Freudian slip? I believe that 'anti-Fundamentalist' rhetoric is a valid weapon against the tides of viciousness currently made palpable via 9/11 and by many responses to that. Rhetoric beats nukes every time. And I will as I choose: repond to posts which proselytize for a mindset I deem dangerous to its non-Believers, from my experience on this planet. As to confusing "all-Christians" with Fundamentalists - I accept that if you preach it you mean it. Self-described Christians I can see on the Telly any late-night, actively inciting opprobrium (and some - overt violence in God's Name\ufffd, including elsewhere: hit lists with addresses.) That is, violence against people whose sexual preferences are not in accord with their own, or against people who seek legal abortions for their own reasons (and violence against their doctors). Theirs is a Fundamentalist literal reading of Their Book\ufffd - and these are people willing to force their religious belief upon others, fatally - as occurs periodically here. Dunno about Oz. These are fair game in My Book\ufffd. The preachings of others, not demonstrably vicious in action - is merely annoying (your word) and I can "live with" that annoyance. I am not required to bear it silently, however many times I ignore it. (Were I a homosexual or an abortionist, that "living with" part.. would be a debatable expectation, here and now.) Are non-Fundamentalist Christians entirely exempt from their history? Has there been some sort of mass epiphany of late re. respecting the rights of others not to be harangued about Hell, Pestilence, Original built-in Sin and especially about - "having the Wrong God" - which I have missed? Lastly - whether it is Fundamentalist fantasy or general Christian fantasy (?) I notice more frequent mention of, "Rapturing Out" in the "Endtimes" - as this idea becomes discussed in popular organs; these are folks anxious to Get This Word Out! I suggest that these ideas rather underscore the disdain which such Believers maintain for - any 'Christian' who just might not "make the Cut". (Never mind what is thought of, the legions of Doomed Millions? Billions?? who aren't even.. Christians squabbling for a ticket!) So never mind 'past history' wherein your predecessors made some thousands of mistakes fatal to others, folks: I am looking at present Christians aiming for a self-fulfilling prophecy - some even bragging about "helping to make it so" (no doubt in God's name). Such intentionally suicidal actions can affect many others on the planet - on which I am also a passenger. Now that IS annoying, and requires defense. The offense is already there. Ashton
Post #44,532 by static 7/5/02 8:10:56 AM Reply	I might have been in a less than charitable mood. Basically, I didn't like the tar on the brush you were wielding. I'm not over on the Fundamentalist end of the spectrum, I'm not rabidly anti-Muslim (or anti-Arab), I don't agree with the way the televangelists work and in fact don't like them calling themselves "Christian", I don't approve of certain sexual lifestyles, but I don't condone violence against such people either. About abortion I don't have an opinion and as I've already said, enforcing a religious choice is always counter-productive. Sure, the fundamentalists are worth railing against. But a "scatter-gun" approach gets innocent bystanders, too. Current teaching in all of the churches I know is not about forcing a point of view down the victim's throat. A list of "Do-Nots" has been out of fashion for years and the jargon should be kept to a minimum when talking with those outside the church! Can you accept that perhaps you happen to know a self-confessed Christian who also dislikes most of the things you dislike about popular "Christians"? Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #44,543 by orion 7/5/02 10:55:37 AM Reply	Way I see it, hate the sin, love the sinner. Don't hate people for their sins, love them, but hate the sins. People can do better and become better if they want to. Nobody can stop sinning, but they can reduce the sins and try to do better later on. Yes we are against abortion, but I don't think we should press that on everybody else. Yes we are against terrorism, but that doesn't mean we are Anti-Arab or Anti-Muslim. So many myths and lies about Christianity around here, makes me sick. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #44,564 by Ashton 7/5/02 4:43:40 PM 7/5/02 5:44:08 PM Reply	Yes, indeed. As the chestnut goes.. some of my best friends.. :-) It is as stupid to imagine that "All Christians Suck" as it would be to imagine that "All non-Christians are Saints - except they don't like that descriptive word". Obviously. I'm sure you are correct re the modified (and mollifed) teaching of late in many denominations, the earnest revulsion of much that has been done "in His Name" in more ignorant eras.. and the general folly of that hubris which presumes that Righteousness comes via professing me-too to a certain Credo one has memorized. Much would have to have been toned down, for modern ears (?) But it remains in 'Scripture'.. and for (too) many: that is deemed a license to play a really sick OT-God, homo-sap version. Fundamentalists of any stripe are a quite Other matter. I'm not at all comfortable with the fact that: rarely do I ever see a Christian actively disavowing the horrendous rantings of (here: it is often "late-night" on Tee Vee or radio) those who Will "tell you what the Bible Really Means". I see that you may Not have a C-Gestapo which 'corrects' the infirm and deranged via their own methods (fun as that sounds). But as with errant MDs - another "service provider" - there are at least provisions for defrocking those who kill too many too quickly, via methods seen to have been deranged. No, these don't work very well (here) either - but they are at least "on the books". << In brief, where has been the funding for Counter- air time, from honest Christians: explaining that it is NOT nice to post hit-lists and to incite mouth-breathers to ~'Kill a Queer for Christ' ?? Silence is ever taken to be tacit acquiescence. It's a lot of trouble, some expen$e to mount a 'counter' to the veritably offensive - but such opposition could be only much more effective, were some actual Christians to stand up and say [cleaned up, natch]. "This jackal is a POS, has entirely mangled the meaning of our tenets and is spewing hatred from his own personal Hell right here in River City. You may NOT go out and kill people 'for God': Got It? Good. ..And it will take more than some Hail Marys for you to atone for your acts of shame, Oh gullible jerks!" (first draft) Seems to me this Would be "the Christian thing to do" [??] {sigh} (Anyway, I'm sure that, had you met one Father Miller MB Sale - in another Time - we both would have concurred about a Christian speaking no less than wisdom, while also daring to debunk pure sht.) Lastly, my philosophical objections to the main model doesn't cut any ice vs anyone else's. Homo saps are entitled to any bizarre drum beat they like to march to: until they cross the line into political actions, vicious actions and exhorting to same* - which Are in my province to oppose - especially when they append, "God Told Me to Do It" Y'know? Ashton PS - re the list of things on your 'disapproval list' I Know whatcha mean.. Personally, I disapprove of the heard-of-hearing folks' lame 'excuse'. Obviously God wants Everyone to hear == The Same Exact Way. (Those with too little Faith just won't exercise the proper Willpower in order to behave as God intended they behave.) We must Help them to Change. Same deal with those clods who can't carry a tune but like to paint n'stuff... Yeah they say they just Can't Do It, but it's just an excuse to evade listening to the hymns properly. If they really loved God: They Could Change Themselves, but - maybe with the help of some Righteous trainers: it can be just as-if they were never born (the way in fact They Were Born). Now as to the celebrity National Figures of Greed Who !? is Helping Them to see their Sins? No funding for this project??? ...But plenty for remanufacturing queers.. better than New? Who Decides this stuff ?? Are you On that Committee? Why no action? Are Some Sins more Popular than Others -- so they get the funding for correctional efforts? Then there's wife-beating - when She won't stay in her Place. Funding for that one? As large as the queer correction project? Y'know? (Any more on your short list?) Edited by Missing User 70 July 5, 2002, 05:44:08 PM EDT Expand All History

Welcome to IWETHEY!