97-yo Chuck Yeager /Test Pilot! buys the ranch..

Post #437,583 by Ashton 12/8/20 7:05:56 PM 12/8/20 7:05:56 PM Reply	97-yo Chuck Yeager /Test Pilot! buys the ranch.. likely serenely.. Who doesn't recall (a certain gutsy trick) [Yeager's? haven't delved yet]. That of going against all you ever Knew: and pushing forward on stick ... to stay ^Up^ !! I recall news of his feat in the rocket-plane, but likely had no knowledge of the Trick, that day. RIP, Gutsy-guy. (Later he made Brigadier General, despite no advanced education but many other epaulets).
Post #437,585 by drook 12/8/20 8:31:04 PM 12/8/20 8:31:04 PM Reply	I don't recall ... link to a story? -- Drew
Post #437,590 by a6l6e6x 12/8/20 11:01:28 PM 12/8/20 11:01:28 PM Reply	Here's a link to NY Times. Chuck Yeager, Test Pilot Who Broke the Sound Barrier, Is Dead at 97 I remember him well. But, frankly surprised he was alive till now. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #437,621 by Ashton 12/9/20 3:34:24 PM 12/9/20 3:34:24 PM Reply	Me too.. I mean, it's sorta like a guy who's a Food-Taster for a particularly disgusting Monarch? ..living that long ... after so many meal-times. Guess he was Charmed by the God of Dare-devils. Karma! ..sometimes She's not a bitch.
Post #437,623 by drook 12/9/20 4:12:08 PM 12/9/20 4:12:08 PM Reply	I mean the story of pushing down on the stick to go up, never heard that -- Drew
Post #437,630 by Ashton 12/9/20 5:03:35 PM 12/9/20 5:03:35 PM Reply	It's about the ~'reversal of the aerodynamics' of a conventional wing design on/near Mach(o?) 1 I'm fuzzy about when/how: that seat-of-pants info got to be both verified ..then adopted (eventually, into the later designed-for-Mach-1+ wing, fuselage shapes). Clearly, Yeager's flight was before this Trick's discovery--so had only his own Imagination (and the at least, fresh design of that rocket-plane, perhaps better than anyone realized just then (?) I no info yet of the When? of these realizations, but: imagine ..the er, "denying Force" in brain: of say, being in a Boeing MAX* heading downwards ... and pushing the stick forward! ..as did that first pilot--working simply from his Imagination. (* Bad example of course): That 'remedy' would not have cancelled-out the brainz-dead SIngle-point-of-Failure of the MAX's aerodynamical-kluge, for obvious computer-overriding-reasons. (Likely I'd not fly within one of the ~corrected 'solutions' du jour); believe that the ∑-$$$ LOSSES alone--dictated that Boeing+FAA du jour: must promote this, now hump-backed-whale with built-in instabilites as follow that heavy engine swap: the clear ∆ at source of it all). But what do I know re aerodynamic subtleties, eh?
Post #437,631 by drook 12/9/20 5:08:15 PM 12/12/20 12:06:46 AM Reply	I imagine the sensation is like when you become conscious of countersteering a bike -- Drew Edited by drook Dec. 12, 2020, 12:06:46 AM EST Expand All History
Post #437,634 by Ashton 12/9/20 6:21:53 PM 12/9/20 6:21:53 PM Reply	Nice catch--two-wheel dynamics oft seem perverse I recall a clash 'twixt moi re DMV drivers tests--re bikes: They invented some koan re whether you pull-up? or -down? in some weird Ex. I realized that, sitting astride my stopped bike: Only my muscle-memory had forever kept me riding; I could not translate the words of this silly script into: What Got Done by the body (gravity + centrifugal +) re Where?/How? do you Press-instantly on handlebars! Try it sometime: por moi, Words failed. Kinda like trying to describe how-you-spit? re ..lungs, mouth embouchure etc. :-/
Post #437,653 by crazy 12/10/20 9:42:51 AM 12/10/20 9:42:51 AM Reply	now you've added something else to my consciousness Counter steering? What the hell is that? multiple Google and YouTube videos later I realize I always did it I just didn't know I was doing it. So I guess I'm conscious of it now.
Post #437,659 by drook 12/10/20 12:54:55 PM 12/10/20 12:54:55 PM Reply	No, now you're aware of it You'll be conscious of it the first time you're on a bike and push right to go right. -- Drew
Post #437,674 by Ashton 12/10/20 5:04:45 PM 12/10/20 5:04:45 PM Reply	Perzackly..! drook wins the Clarity award. Again. But I find most annoying--cf. the DMV example: When an ignoramus-on-the-topic: imagines that you Can roll-out, in simple-ass Boolean algebra, Any fucking thing that pops into your uninformed-on-topic, Brainz! (And an explanation to such a perp: is ever given grudgingly) ..if you're bound to edjumacate the perp despite his pompous assholery, in the First place. At DMV: one realizes that the poor clerk-at-window is NOT the proper recipient) of your urge to say ~~ Fuck Off! you unclear-on-the-Concept poseur--ever faking it all. (I'd still like to find out the 'author', that Official writer of shit), designed to maybe NOT renew a Permit, Evaluating: that which you have safely accomplished since--one's first bicycle, actually. / {{Sheesh!}}
Post #437,700 by scoenye 12/11/20 5:06:57 PM 12/11/20 5:06:57 PM Reply	It works a lot better if you're conscious of it The subconscious way works on a bicycle but things rapidly deteriorate on anything faster and heavier. It works for a motorcycle on the Interstate, but if one ever needs to take evasive action, or underestimate a turn ---> weeds, or worse...
Post #437,709 by Ashton 12/12/20 1:51:24 AM 12/12/20 1:51:24 AM Reply	Quite so.. and IMhO, best place to learn: in the dirt, on a small man-handleable machine (also Fun) (Learned on a tiny Harley-branded 125cc machine), in front of Student House: sandy/loam surface, so no worries as you slide out. Laughing.
Post #437,644 by Andrew Grygus 12/10/20 2:21:31 AM 12/10/20 2:21:31 AM Reply	Yes, sound barrier screws up aerodynamics. The ME262 would go into a dive at the speed of sound. The Germans knew this and were developing a swept wing version to fix this. Also, a successor to the ME262, which was in the early prototype stage, that the US space program people analyzed and determined would have been able to achieve it's designed speed of 1500 mph sometime in 1947. Our space shuttle was developed from the X-20 Dyna-Soar program which referenced a German orbital bomber design (in early development) with the top stage based on that fighter plane design.
Post #438,961 by CRConrad 4/20/21 12:14:05 PM 4/20/21 12:14:05 PM Reply	Luftwaffe -46: http://www.luft46.com/ -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #438,960 by CRConrad 4/20/21 12:10:45 PM 4/20/21 12:10:45 PM Reply	What, never seen "Cars"? Chuck must'a been Doc Hudson: "To go left, turn right." -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #437,627 by rcareaga 12/9/20 4:49:43 PM 12/9/20 4:49:43 PM Reply	Anyone who enjoys yarns about pilots …should read Ernest K. Gann’s Fate Is the Hunter. Gann’s career wasn’t as sexy as Yaeger’s—he flew civilian passenger aircraft and, in wartime, military transports—but his accounts of flying from the infancy of commercial aviation up through the end of the fifties makes for fascinating reading, and it doesn’t hurt that he was a pretty decent prose stylist. In one of his tales he relates how, as a green co-pilot, he was assigned to train with one of the airline’s veteran men, who on one flight graciously offered to let Gann handle a night landing. This is a privilege, and the younger man is greatly flattered. And then, on the approach, the pilot strikes a kitchen mass and holds it, flaring, in front of Gann’s face. “What the hell are you doing??” Gann blows it out. Another match, another baffled exhalation, and so all the way down. Once safely on the runway, Gann has worked himself into a near-homicidal fury, but before he can speak, the older man says “Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps.” Gann remembers the episode years later when he is obliged to land an aircraft rapidly filling up with smoke. During the war he has his own “stick” adventure when someone neglects to secure a consignment of steel beams, which slide to the rear of the C-47, greatly impeding the crew’s attempts to maintain level flight. Joe Bob sez check it out. cordially,
Post #437,629 by drook 12/9/20 5:02:28 PM 12/9/20 5:02:28 PM Reply	I'm sure you've read this story before, but have you ever heard it told by the pilot? https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/news/a27340/sr-71-speed-check/ -- Drew
Post #437,643 by Ashton 12/9/20 11:59:00 PM 12/9/20 11:59:00 PM Reply	That was Mach-2 Fun! (we all were paying the gas bill, though) Was sorry/glad to have missed any chance ever to fly Concorde, though. Glad because Climate. Sad because, well, you know... ... But on the ground, last century--I had my own not-quite Concorde.. it was enough, then. VrrrROOOM ---> [❊]
Post #437,654 by crazy 12/10/20 9:58:57 AM 12/10/20 9:58:57 AM Reply	Who here has flown? I had one introduction class. I didn't intend to get a pilot's license. My brother simply gifted me an introduction class. He's sat in the back while the instructor sat next to me in front. Four man plane. I've been in a variety of small crap planes for tours. My perspective of small planes is basically a VW bus with wings hanging on. This was not that. This was a Porsche with wings. So we take off from a tiny airport in Northeast Philadelphia and then go to the Jersey side. We have a certain range of what we're allowed before we go into various military base airspace. Stay away from that. He then hands the controls to me. There's a point in the horizon and you have to start turning left to go pull a u-turn, etc. It was fun. And then we return to the airport. At this point he said it's all yours. I don't want you to land but I want you to hit the wheels and then lift off again. Touch and go landings. What the f* does that mean? He told me: you see this little light above you that's not on right now? When it goes on there will be an alarm sound. This means the plane does not have enough lift and you're about to die. That's also the exact moment you want to hit the runway. You have to adjust throttle and stick, no I had a fancy sports car handle, and you just have to hit that runway in about 3 seconds after that alarm goes off. What the f*? Yeah, you're going to be floating in on low power and you're going to be dipping the nose but not too much, and the air speed alarm will go off and that means you've got three seconds to hit your wheels onto the runway. If you are actually going to stop we do other things but what I want you to do at that point after you hit the runway is hit the throttle and pull the stick back and go back up. I did this for about 15 minutes. Maybe I had three touch and goes. My brother in the back starts screaming he was about to puke get him off the plane. So that was the end of my lesson. I landed, and we got out. It was one of the most intense experiences of my life and I would so love to do it again.
Post #437,664 by mmoffitt 12/10/20 2:17:42 PM 12/10/20 2:17:42 PM Reply	PPSEL. N7522T is my Cessna 172A. Chuck Yeager was never the pilot Bob Hoover was and from personal accounts I've heard from others, Yeager was an even bigger prick than the standard for test pilots. Some folks I've spoken with who were there said Hoover was supposed to be the pilot for the famous flight, but got sideways with those in charge and was relegated to Yeager's back-up. If half the crap I've heard about Chuck Yeager is true, I've got two words for his passing: good riddance. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #437,675 by Ashton 12/10/20 5:11:34 PM 12/10/20 5:11:34 PM Reply	Thanks: myth killed by (likely) Truthiness, aka Be an iconoclast! ..wherever it's important :-)
Post #437,682 by rcareaga 12/10/20 9:29:04 PM 12/10/20 9:29:04 PM Reply	Well, here’s how Hoover remembered it in 2002 Well, he’s a real hero in my book. I knew him intimately. In his book, he wrote a lot about us, our togetherness. I was selected to fly the [Bell] X–1 before him! Of all the people I’ve ever known—you could not have done better than Chuck—the best aviator I’ve ever flown with, that’s a true statement. The feelings run deep, so does the admiration. I can assure you the success of that program (the X–1) could not have been any better accomplished than it was with Chuck at the controls. He’s the best aviator I’ve ever flown with. Great friendship, great admiration. Source here. I really enjoyed Robert Hoover as the nervous frat president in Animal House. cordially,
Post #437,689 by mmoffitt 12/11/20 8:20:19 AM 12/11/20 8:20:19 AM Reply	Hoover was a first class guy. No way he'd steal thunder from anybody, let alone Yeager. It doesn't change the fact that Yeager was a lucky prick. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #437,684 by Another Scott 12/10/20 11:28:33 PM 12/10/20 11:28:33 PM Reply	I don't remember anything about Hoover, nor much about Yeager. Yeager was from WV and several things are named after him there. (Or at least they claim him.) His later politics would fit in very easily with the deep red status it has now. Armstrong was an amazing pilot and the obvious choice to be first on the Moon. https://www.airspacemag.com/videos/armstrongs-close-call/ Cheers, Scott.
Post #437,691 by mmoffitt 12/11/20 8:39:51 AM 12/11/20 8:39:51 AM Reply	Check this out. Short clip of one of Bob's most famous maneuvers. This is airmanship. The energy management required for that maneuver in a Shrike is exceptional. Bob may have sanitized his narrative in that clip a little for public consumption. The story I got from my retired Air Force primary instructor who knew Bob was that the trick used to be done by setting a shot of whisky on the top of the panel, but the FAA raised hell about it (may have been the CAA back then). Hoover had his airman's medical taken away by the FAA without cause because, well, the FAA does things because they can, not because they should. It was ultimately reinstated. The primary reason you don't remember Hoover is that he was a victim of bureaucratic power. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #437,694 by Another Scott 12/11/20 10:14:13 AM 12/11/20 10:14:13 AM Reply	Nice parlor trick. Thanks. But having your craft blow up underneath you and being cool-headed about it is yet another thing. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #437,695 by drook 12/11/20 10:39:10 AM 12/11/20 10:39:10 AM Reply	My father told me a guy he flew with did tricks like that with a pen Bring a new guy up in the second seat. The pen would already be up on top of the panel. He'd grab a clipboard and start looking around trying to "find" the pen. While looking, start a roll and the pen would float. Land the pen on the clipboard and say, "Oh, there it is." -- Drew
Post #437,697 by mmoffitt 12/11/20 3:45:10 PM 12/11/20 3:45:10 PM Reply	I like to make a sheet of paper heavy. Have the right seat hold a sheet of paper on their flat open pan, then make it heavy. They're always amazed at how heavy a little sheet of paper can get. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #437,698 by Ashton 12/11/20 4:03:32 PM 12/11/20 4:03:32 PM Reply	Were there a Nobel for achieving Perfection, reliably-every-time: this über-Mensch deserves a Statue Even moi can imagine, if along for the ride: being able to Wonder-at and throughout: the 'scary' zenith of each maneuver ... with pulse at a steady 60 and, simply Enjoying-cheating-death (all at 0-probability). But only with Bob --assuredly there are many with similar talents--but ..well, you Know. Once I briefly rode pillion with a Mega-star of off-road m/cycle ridership. After the first moments of sheer-Terror I was able to convince self to relax and enjoy, via the mantra ... piece-of-cake ... piece-of-cake ... (and Yes, I Am a physical-Coward re. er, envisioning the meat-ware spread all over a landscape. Still) :-{
Post #437,677 by scoenye 12/10/20 6:46:27 PM 12/10/20 6:46:27 PM Reply	Gliders here. Touch & go is generally frowned upon with those ;-)
Post #437,665 by mmoffitt 12/10/20 2:44:22 PM 12/10/20 2:44:22 PM Reply	I'll not shed a tear. By all accounts, Yeager was a first class jerk. Here's a recent example. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #437,683 by rcareaga 12/10/20 9:30:11 PM 12/10/20 9:30:11 PM Reply	I thought you hated Airbus?
Post #437,690 by mmoffitt 12/11/20 8:24:28 AM 12/11/20 8:24:28 AM Reply	I don't hate them. I just don't let anyone I know fly on them. Regrettably, Boeing seems to be heading down the same stupid path. But that wasn't the point and you know it. The point was that Yeager was a lucky, selfish prick and stayed one until the very last. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #437,699 by Ashton 12/11/20 4:17:09 PM 12/11/20 4:17:09 PM Reply	Perhaps his people-talents echo those of The Menace --employing suasion with-a-smirk in most encounters--while inside Living-out a minset indistinguishable from said ugly child-Menace. In retrospect I realize that I have actually been in company of such Defectives, a few times.. but never, ever on the off-Scale of OUR vilest of the Lot. (But each such encounter registered as a ƒ[Eeuww!] on the Vile-O-Meter, creating that permanent-Memory (whether you wanted that, or not).
Post #437,702 by rcareaga 12/11/20 9:14:20 PM 12/11/20 9:14:20 PM Reply	Meh. But that wasn't the point and you know it. I really don’t have a dog in this dogfight. cordially,

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