Huh? I know I've posted here I'm supporting Bernie. Doesn't he count?

Post #405,511 by mmoffitt 10/22/15 3:53:43 PM 10/22/15 4:09:12 PM Reply	Huh? I know I've posted here I'm supporting Bernie. Doesn't he count? Edit: Bernie is not my "perfect" candidate. But he is, IMO, the only candidate who actually believes that this country is not of, by and for corporations. Edited by mmoffitt Oct. 22, 2015, 04:09:12 PM EDT Huh? I know I've posted here I'm supporting Bernie. Doesn't he count? Collapse All History
Post #405,525 by Another Scott 10/22/15 10:42:42 PM Reply	Ok. I can't keep track of as much as I used to. ;-) Juan Cole: Sanders supported the Israeli attack on Gaza last summer but thought the Israeli army was a little heavy-handed and ‘over-reacted’ with some of its actions like bombing schools being used as civilian shelters. (There were no weapons at these schools). Sanders excused Israeli actions against Gaza civilian populations on the grounds that missiles were being fired from Gaza into Israel from populated centers. The Israeli campaign killed around 2000 Palestinians, most of them non-combatants. Another 1400 or so were killed in 2008-2009, and there have been many other Israeli bombings and other military actions against Palestinians in Gaza. Gaza rockets, most of them tiny high school science projects, mostly land uselessly in the desert, so that totaling them up into the thousands is a mere propaganda point. Over the past decade, they have killed 44 Israelis. The launching of the rockets by Hamas is a war crime, and the majority of those killed have been innocent non-combatants. But the disproportionate use of force is also a violation of international law, and a thousand to one kill ratio suggests disproportion. Sanders’ Israel policy seems likely to tilt more toward Tel Aviv than that of Obama, though Sanders did boycott the address of PM Binyamin Netanyahu to Congress in March. Joan Walsh at Bill Moyers: If Democrats listen to Obama, that could be bad news for Bernie Sanders. Clinton has announced an ambitious new push for gun limits, in the wake of the massacre at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, Thursday, and she’s hoping it changes the momentum in the unexpectedly close Democratic primary. Gun control is one issue where Clinton stands to Sanders’s left. The Vermont socialist isn’t terrible on guns: Though the NRA endorsed him in his first race for Congress, he has a D-minus rating from the group. He supported the 2013 background-check bill, in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre, and closing the gun-show sales loophole. Yet Sanders has troubled gun-control advocates with a few vexing apostasies, most notably his vote against the Brady Bill. On that and other gun issues, he has said that he believes states and not the federal government should set limits. He also voted for NRA-backed bills granting gun manufacturers legal immunity against claims by gun victims, and making it possible to carry checked guns on Amtrak. He told Bill Maher last year that mental health was “maybe the more important issue” in stopping mass shootings than gun control. “We’ve got millions of folks walking the streets who are need of mental health and they can’t walk into a place and get it,” he said. “This is the NRA talking point.… that’s what they say.” Maher replied. On the issues: 2009: Voted against closing Gitmo F-35 fighter planes OK Voted YES on permitting commercial airline pilots to carry guns. There's more to a President than how they talk about corporations. What are you going to do when Hillary beats Bernie? Cheers, Scott.
Post #405,526 by rcareaga 10/22/15 10:47:30 PM Reply	Re: Ok. AnotherScott wonders, anent mmoffitt, What are you going to do when Hillary beats Bernie? Is this a trick question? cordially,
Post #405,528 by Another Scott 10/22/15 10:50:22 PM Reply	;-)
Post #405,529 by boxley 10/22/15 11:15:58 PM Reply	so you continue to support shit candidates because republicans? you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #405,545 by mmoffitt 10/23/15 10:06:15 AM Reply	What part of "not my perfect candidate" was ambiguous? You and Rand like to claim that I'm looking for unicorns and unreasonably criticize the big slide to the Right I've watched the democratic party go through over the years. Given what's to choose from, Bernie is the best candidate. Wall Street doesn't own him. That is a presidential qualification without equal. But then, you've always been a lot softer on the Worthless Thumb Oppressors than have I. ;0)
Post #405,548 by Another Scott 10/23/15 10:27:04 AM Reply	So you admit Bernie is the lesser evil for you? Fine. What will you do if Hillary beats him? In the US system parties matter. The lesser evil party needs to win for there to be progress. Heightening the contradictions or advocating the more rapid destruction of the federal government isn't the way to reach the goals we all want. If you want a more progressive Democratic party, you need to elect more Democrats. That broadens the sets of views and makes space for leftists. Punishing Democrats because they're not lefty enough is counter-productive when the other party is deranged. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #405,552 by mmoffitt 10/23/15 10:50:18 AM Reply	Sure. What will you do if Hillary beats him? I seriously don't know. I held my nose and voted for her husband and what did that get me? Repeal of Glass-Steagall which started us down the path to the sequel of 10/29/29 and the country still hasn't recovered. Median household earnings falling year after year (8 percent drop from 2007 to 2013). That won't change at all if HRC assumes the White House because she's as owned by big money as he ever was. Add to that her vote for Bush's Iraq War, USA Patriot Act, and well, what good could possibly come from voting for somebody who holds so many Un-American positions? I started out saying if HRC won the nomination and Trump won his party's nomination, I'd vote for Trump. At this point I can't see myself participating in the charade at all if she does beat Bernie. But if I do decide to participate and Trump is the Nutjob Party's candidate, next year will be the most difficult presidential voting decision I've ever faced in my life.
Post #405,565 by lincoln 10/23/15 1:47:35 PM Reply	Re: Sure. mmoffitt says: I held my nose and voted for her husband and what did that get me? Repeal of Glass-Steagall Can't pin the blame on President Bill Clinton for that: The Financial Services Act of 1999, which repealed parts of the Glass-Steagall Act, was passed by the Senate 90–8, and by the House 362–57. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act Even if Clinton vetoed it, there were more than enough votes to override his veto and make it become law. Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #405,568 by mmoffitt 10/23/15 1:58:37 PM Reply	How about Rubin? Can I blame him for Rubin?
Post #405,571 by boxley 10/23/15 2:44:47 PM Reply	No, the clintons are democrats, cant blame them for anything you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #405,592 by lincoln 10/24/15 10:49:03 AM Reply	bullshit. Clinton gets plenty of blame for things that happened during his 8 years of office. Quite unlike Dubya's 2 terms, where Republicans refuse to admit that he even existed - the White House went from Clinton to Obama and the years of 2001-2008 never occurred. Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897

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