Just be sure to apply the same analysis to the other guy.

Post #405,495 by Another Scott 10/22/15 7:55:40 AM Reply	Just be sure to apply the same analysis to the other guy. You're not voting for a potential spouse for your only child. You're choosing the better candidate. Don't let their framing affect your need to make a clear-eyed choice. Hang in there. Cheers, Scott.
Post #405,496 by mmoffitt 10/22/15 8:18:19 AM Reply	You "lesser evil" guys slay me. When you vote for an HRC what you are saying is that you'd prefer to see your country taken a part bit-by-bit slowly with no hope of change rather than letting the system reach its natural disaster quickly and give the next couple of generations a chance to live in a sane (although perhaps smaller) nation. A vote for HRC is a vote for the abandonment of all hope - and you know which gate that is.
Post #405,498 by lincoln 10/22/15 8:42:34 AM Reply	Re: You "lesser evil" guys slay me. having the "country taken apart bit-by-bit slowly" sure as hell beats letting the RepubliCONS trash it completely within the next few years. Thanks to working for shitty managers I've been constantly out of work over the past 15 years, giving me numerous gaps of no income and all of the expenses reducing my bank account. And it's so much fun to have dothead recruiters call me with offers of jobs out of state for $35/hour with no benefits and no insurance. Try paying all of your living expenses of your house and family and the expenses of you living hundreds of miles away just to work. You can bail as fast as possible at that rate, but you can't stop the boat from going under. I'd rather vote for Hillary and let the ship go down slowly, giving me a chance to swim for it rather than have it explode and kill me immediately. Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #405,503 by mmoffitt 10/22/15 1:03:37 PM Reply	Frog fable. Results are the same. One just takes longer and I'm impatient.
Post #405,505 by lincoln 10/22/15 1:09:54 PM Reply	refill my bank account so I can survive your impatience Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #405,527 by Another Scott 10/22/15 10:49:37 PM Reply	Well said.
Post #405,510 by Another Scott 10/22/15 3:35:01 PM Reply	Serious question: Who would be your preferred candidate? If you have a preferred (living) candidate that meets the legal qualifications (natural born USian, etc.), please name him or her. If nobody is good enough to gain your vote, then please don't complain when someone is chosen (and someone will be chosen). Our system of government requires a President. If your default mode is always vote for the greater evil, or talk as if you do, then you'll probably like Davis X. Machina's posts. I'm pretty sure most of his are snark, though... Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #405,511 by mmoffitt 10/22/15 3:53:43 PM 10/22/15 4:09:12 PM Reply	Huh? I know I've posted here I'm supporting Bernie. Doesn't he count? Edit: Bernie is not my "perfect" candidate. But he is, IMO, the only candidate who actually believes that this country is not of, by and for corporations. Edited by mmoffitt Oct. 22, 2015, 04:09:12 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #405,525 by Another Scott 10/22/15 10:42:42 PM Reply	Ok. I can't keep track of as much as I used to. ;-) Juan Cole: Sanders supported the Israeli attack on Gaza last summer but thought the Israeli army was a little heavy-handed and ‘over-reacted’ with some of its actions like bombing schools being used as civilian shelters. (There were no weapons at these schools). Sanders excused Israeli actions against Gaza civilian populations on the grounds that missiles were being fired from Gaza into Israel from populated centers. The Israeli campaign killed around 2000 Palestinians, most of them non-combatants. Another 1400 or so were killed in 2008-2009, and there have been many other Israeli bombings and other military actions against Palestinians in Gaza. Gaza rockets, most of them tiny high school science projects, mostly land uselessly in the desert, so that totaling them up into the thousands is a mere propaganda point. Over the past decade, they have killed 44 Israelis. The launching of the rockets by Hamas is a war crime, and the majority of those killed have been innocent non-combatants. But the disproportionate use of force is also a violation of international law, and a thousand to one kill ratio suggests disproportion. Sanders’ Israel policy seems likely to tilt more toward Tel Aviv than that of Obama, though Sanders did boycott the address of PM Binyamin Netanyahu to Congress in March. Joan Walsh at Bill Moyers: If Democrats listen to Obama, that could be bad news for Bernie Sanders. Clinton has announced an ambitious new push for gun limits, in the wake of the massacre at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, Thursday, and she’s hoping it changes the momentum in the unexpectedly close Democratic primary. Gun control is one issue where Clinton stands to Sanders’s left. The Vermont socialist isn’t terrible on guns: Though the NRA endorsed him in his first race for Congress, he has a D-minus rating from the group. He supported the 2013 background-check bill, in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre, and closing the gun-show sales loophole. Yet Sanders has troubled gun-control advocates with a few vexing apostasies, most notably his vote against the Brady Bill. On that and other gun issues, he has said that he believes states and not the federal government should set limits. He also voted for NRA-backed bills granting gun manufacturers legal immunity against claims by gun victims, and making it possible to carry checked guns on Amtrak. He told Bill Maher last year that mental health was “maybe the more important issue” in stopping mass shootings than gun control. “We’ve got millions of folks walking the streets who are need of mental health and they can’t walk into a place and get it,” he said. “This is the NRA talking point.… that’s what they say.” Maher replied. On the issues: 2009: Voted against closing Gitmo F-35 fighter planes OK Voted YES on permitting commercial airline pilots to carry guns. There's more to a President than how they talk about corporations. What are you going to do when Hillary beats Bernie? Cheers, Scott.
Post #405,526 by rcareaga 10/22/15 10:47:30 PM Reply	Re: Ok. AnotherScott wonders, anent mmoffitt, What are you going to do when Hillary beats Bernie? Is this a trick question? cordially,
Post #405,528 by Another Scott 10/22/15 10:50:22 PM Reply	;-)
Post #405,529 by boxley 10/22/15 11:15:58 PM Reply	so you continue to support shit candidates because republicans? you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #405,545 by mmoffitt 10/23/15 10:06:15 AM Reply	What part of "not my perfect candidate" was ambiguous? You and Rand like to claim that I'm looking for unicorns and unreasonably criticize the big slide to the Right I've watched the democratic party go through over the years. Given what's to choose from, Bernie is the best candidate. Wall Street doesn't own him. That is a presidential qualification without equal. But then, you've always been a lot softer on the Worthless Thumb Oppressors than have I. ;0)
Post #405,548 by Another Scott 10/23/15 10:27:04 AM Reply	So you admit Bernie is the lesser evil for you? Fine. What will you do if Hillary beats him? In the US system parties matter. The lesser evil party needs to win for there to be progress. Heightening the contradictions or advocating the more rapid destruction of the federal government isn't the way to reach the goals we all want. If you want a more progressive Democratic party, you need to elect more Democrats. That broadens the sets of views and makes space for leftists. Punishing Democrats because they're not lefty enough is counter-productive when the other party is deranged. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #405,552 by mmoffitt 10/23/15 10:50:18 AM Reply	Sure. What will you do if Hillary beats him? I seriously don't know. I held my nose and voted for her husband and what did that get me? Repeal of Glass-Steagall which started us down the path to the sequel of 10/29/29 and the country still hasn't recovered. Median household earnings falling year after year (8 percent drop from 2007 to 2013). That won't change at all if HRC assumes the White House because she's as owned by big money as he ever was. Add to that her vote for Bush's Iraq War, USA Patriot Act, and well, what good could possibly come from voting for somebody who holds so many Un-American positions? I started out saying if HRC won the nomination and Trump won his party's nomination, I'd vote for Trump. At this point I can't see myself participating in the charade at all if she does beat Bernie. But if I do decide to participate and Trump is the Nutjob Party's candidate, next year will be the most difficult presidential voting decision I've ever faced in my life.
Post #405,565 by lincoln 10/23/15 1:47:35 PM Reply	Re: Sure. mmoffitt says: I held my nose and voted for her husband and what did that get me? Repeal of Glass-Steagall Can't pin the blame on President Bill Clinton for that: The Financial Services Act of 1999, which repealed parts of the Glass-Steagall Act, was passed by the Senate 90–8, and by the House 362–57. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act Even if Clinton vetoed it, there were more than enough votes to override his veto and make it become law. Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #405,568 by mmoffitt 10/23/15 1:58:37 PM Reply	How about Rubin? Can I blame him for Rubin?
Post #405,571 by boxley 10/23/15 2:44:47 PM Reply	No, the clintons are democrats, cant blame them for anything you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #405,592 by lincoln 10/24/15 10:49:03 AM Reply	bullshit. Clinton gets plenty of blame for things that happened during his 8 years of office. Quite unlike Dubya's 2 terms, where Republicans refuse to admit that he even existed - the White House went from Clinton to Obama and the years of 2001-2008 never occurred. Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897

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