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New late but will try to answer
This just came up in my feed reader today, and seems relevant to this thread. It's clear that we're arguing from different premises, and I've been trying to figure out what you hold sacred. At first glance it seems like your premise is that business leaders are more trustworthy than politicians, or at least no worse.

When challenged on that you (eventually) say that it's not that they're inherently more honest, they are simply acting rationally within an environment where they have more constraints on what they can say.

That's the "sacred" idea that I disagree with. I don't think that the SEC is an effective counterweight to the extraordinary financial gain available via gaming the system. And I don't think that stockholders are generally better-informed or more willing (or able) to vote out a CEO than voters are to vote out a politician. Further, I believe business leaders also don't think the SEC is a viable thread.

But you could show me that I'm wrong. There are 535 members of Congress and 500 Fortune 500 CEOs. In the last 25 years, how many CEOs have been voted out of power by stockholders? How many congressmen lost reelection bids? How many CEOs sanctioned or imprisoned for SEC violations? How many congressmen expelled or imprisoned for impropriety?
fully agree that the SEC is an effective counterweight. Many stckholders are also corporations, unions, government entities, and other groups of people banded together to increase their investments.
Voters are individual humans. As opined by many here, the tea party are sub humans, to others the Obama phone, Obama pays my mortgage and car payment crew, and those who think that a democratic Ohio poll worker who voted for 6 other people didn't commit voter fraud are individuals.
Balmer screaming that apple sucks doesn't rattle apple shareholders. Shareholders who quietly state that bill gates needs to be replaced rattles microsoft shareholders. We are talking two different dynamics here. Shareholders are not individuals, voters are.It's not who is more sacred, I have been eating sacred cows for years, its not a tribal thing, its a "ware all who claim to be YOUR advocate, and check your wallet and count your fingers when shaking hands"
Now you may firmly believe that the affordable care act is business neutral and any moves by business to use that ruse to cut worker pay and benefits to better the bottom line is fine, you are entitled to that opinion.
Your opinion is not a fact.
The historical record in the last century has lots of examples where declaring two classes of workers one of whom is protected by all kinds of law and one who is not being disasterous for the working class. The democratic party insisted that the law go forth as is, in that fashion. Now a few years later you declare "republicansdidit" not really, it was passed by a democratically controlled house and a democratically controlled senate.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Expand Edited by boxley Oct. 3, 2013, 01:19:42 AM EDT
New Could you try that in the day-time, and in English, please?
     3k more jobs lost due to the affordable care act - (boxley) - (132)
         Re: 3k more jobs lost due to the affordable care act - (Another Scott) - (5)
             their quote, ignore it if you want -NT - (boxley) - (4)
                 Heh. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                     Re: Heh. - (boxley) - (1)
                         Um, we've been under the Sequester for quite a while... -NT - (Another Scott)
                 And they are of course guaranteed to tell the truth. - (CRConrad)
         Take the Cleveland Clinic with a grain of salt (f the AHA) - (hnick) - (1)
             Thanks for the skinny. Appreciated. -NT - (Another Scott)
         Clue: - (pwhysall) - (123)
             He needs to be told this?At his age?After all these years... - (CRConrad) - (122)
                 You shoulda been here... - (folkert)
                 do you have - (boxley) - (120)
                     Sure, healthcare for poor people is "excessive regulation". -NT - (CRConrad)
                     Hey, I hear that literally millions of gallons - (jake123)
                     Oh, and BTW, stop squirming like a fucking weasel on speed. - (CRConrad) - (117)
                         A thesis floats to the surface.. - (Ashton)
                         Oh, and BTW, stop squirming like a fucking weasel on speed - (boxley) - (115)
                             "Any" does a lot of heavy lifting there... -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 same shit he was pulling -NT - (boxley)
                             We were discussing what had gone before: your "Their quote!" - (CRConrad) - (112)
                                 here is something even you might understand - (boxley) - (111)
                                     One Communist responds. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                         yup, my solution as well - (boxley)
                                     Some people want out of Social Security, also too. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                         Dons Devil's Advocate Hat: It worked great for my dad. - (mmoffitt)
                                         I know government employee's wanted out of SS - (boxley)
                                     Squirm squirm squirm, ever more the weasel. -NT - (CRConrad) - (100)
                                         gotcher suppah, swingin -NT - (boxley) - (99)
                                             Huh? Sorry, you'll have to use more than the subject line. - (CRConrad) - (98)
                                                 apparently you are not a jack nicholson fan - (boxley) - (97)
                                                     WTF does that have to do with anything? Squirm squirm... - (CRConrad) - (96)
                                                         Oh joy, the german genes have hardened his neurons - (boxley) - (95)
                                                             Oh, beehive. - (Another Scott)
                                                             Squirm squirm... I'll take that as an admission of defeat. - (CRConrad) - (93)
                                                                 You beehive, too. - (Another Scott) - (92)
                                                                     Yeah, sure... As soon as he does. -NT - (CRConrad) - (91)
                                                                         how far can you rightshift? - (boxley) - (90)
                                                                             As far as you can squirm, plus one more to nail you. - (CRConrad) - (89)
                                                                                 Glenn Shadix - (folkert)
                                                                                 gee, you build a straw army and cry when I dont want to play - (boxley) - (87)
                                                                                     It'll benefit me... - (folkert) - (5)
                                                                                         so on 10/1 you will be on the exchange? - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                                             Nope didn't say that. - (folkert) - (3)
                                                                                                 you do remember it was the WH that pulled the government - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                     Yes I do... - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                                         democrats falter at bluster? hoodah thunkit? -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                     MY "squirming"?!? Did you ask me something first, or I you? - (CRConrad) - (80)
                                                                                         soon as you tell me whether you quit beating you wife yes/no - (boxley) - (79)
                                                                                             Manhattan Institute? Really? - (Another Scott) - (10)
                                                                                                 what does the CBO say about job creation, loss or retension? -NT - (boxley) - (9)
                                                                                                     Dunno. - (Another Scott) - (8)
                                                                                                         Now if we could print that on lots of foreheads.. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                         ok - (boxley) - (6)
                                                                                                             There are costs and benefits. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                                                                 There are costs and benefits. - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                                                                     There's lots of news on the other side, too. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                                     In the "news" you hear? Get off Fox, wouldja... -NT - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                                                                         the link was abc, don't watch fox -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                             No, it was something called "WSB-TV Atlanta". ("2"?) HTH! - (CRConrad)
                                                                                             "plenty of good answers"?Then how come all we see is squirm? -NT - (CRConrad) - (67)
                                                                                                 dont let facts get in the way of your prejuidice -NT - (boxley) - (66)
                                                                                                     The only fact here is that you're still squirming. -NT - (CRConrad) - (65)
                                                                                                         project much? -NT - (boxley) - (64)
                                                                                                             He doesn't have to, you channel. -NT - (folkert)
                                                                                                             Facts: Four simple questions. Five days now. That... - (CRConrad) - (62)
                                                                                                                 Re: Facts: Four simple questions. yes they are simple - (boxley) - (61)
                                                                                                                     Difference is, they are relevant in this context, and not... - (CRConrad) - (60)
                                                                                                                         I was quoting the envoy who claimed it was so - (boxley) - (59)
                                                                                                                             Re: I was quoting the envoy who claimed it was so - (Another Scott) - (15)
                                                                                                                                 am I allowed to quote Rangel? He is a dem - (boxley)
                                                                                                                                 Picking that apart - (drook) - (13)
                                                                                                                                     not for profit hospitals are republicans? good to know -NT - (boxley) - (12)
                                                                                                                                         I only mentioned Republicans when addressing Medicaid - (drook) - (11)
                                                                                                                                             not for profit means you dont have to pay taxes, -NT - (boxley) - (10)
                                                                                                                                                 Which has what to do with Republicans or Medicaid? -NT - (drook) - (9)
                                                                                                                                                     Republicans, of course. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                                                                                                                                         BENGHAZI! ACORN! IRS! SOLYNDRA! etal... -NT - (folkert) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                             SOLYNDRA got 1 billion for a small donation to Barry not bad -NT - (boxley) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                                 You know that was Bush's program, right? - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                                     Right in the first line - (drook) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                         not the loan, the tax credits - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                             Oh... to offset the... - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                 crony capitalism works both sides of the aisle -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                                                                                                     the loan mods came after he left office -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                                                             Yes, in support of your claim that it *is* actually so. - (CRConrad) - (42)
                                                                                                                                 Re: Yes, in support of your claim that it *is* actually so. - (boxley) - (41)
                                                                                                                                     The sub-thread I started from your "Their quote!" post is... - (CRConrad) - (40)
                                                                                                                                         looks like some one is not going to take troll bait - (boxley) - (39)
                                                                                                                                             Oh lovely: More squirming, *and* it's in gibberish. -NT - (CRConrad) - (38)
                                                                                                                                                 Oh, the english speaker wh has never gone fishing? neat -NT - (boxley) - (37)
                                                                                                                                                     What's it now, six days? -NT - (CRConrad) - (36)
                                                                                                                                                         don't hold your breath -NT - (boxley) - (35)
                                                                                                                                                             Right you are, Greg; thanks, fixed. - (CRConrad) - (34)
                                                                                                                                                                 Thanks for fixing it. -NT - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                     Stubborn is as stubborn does (rocks are ... like that, too) -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Right you are, Greg; thanks, fixed. - (boxley) - (31)
                                                                                                                                                                     Ah.. the Everything-depends<-on->everything-Else.. ploy. -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                         that depends -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                             rofl. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                                                                                     Is the concept "yes or no" really that difficult? -NT - (CRConrad) - (25)
                                                                                                                                                                         : Is the concept "not using a logical fallacy" hard for you? -NT - (boxley) - (24)
                                                                                                                                                                             Reading is apparently too hard for you: NOT a fallacy. - (CRConrad) - (23)
                                                                                                                                                                                 deductive fallacy is the formal name for your questions -NT - (boxley) - (22)
                                                                                                                                                                                     Explain as if I were ten: How, exactly, are they so? - (CRConrad) - (21)
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Explain as if I were ten: How, exactly, are they so? - (boxley) - (20)
                                                                                                                                                                                             That's not the argument we were arguing about, now is it? - (CRConrad) - (19)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Right, timeout - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     no, we are still right shifting and there is no argument -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: That's not the argument we were arguing about, now is it - (boxley) - (16)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Dude ... - (drook) - (15)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         You are doing his work for him! -NT - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Naah, relax, Greg -- DrooK's doing *my* job for *me*. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         why should I support his logical fallacies? -NT - (boxley) - (12)
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Which ones? I don't see any, as I just explained. - (drook) - (10)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                 A learning experience is one of those things that says, - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Which ones? I don't see any, as I just explained. - (boxley) - (8)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Fine - (drook) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Fine - (boxley) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Finally - (drook) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 not finally at all - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     No, I don't know that - (drook) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Beyond the Call of Duty: +11 - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         late but will try to answer - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Could you try that in the day-time, and in English, please? -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                                                                                                                             You sound just as brilliant as a stuck record -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                                                                                     "I know you are but what am I?" - (drook) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                         Ha! -NT - (folkert)
                                     Whoa - (crazy) - (4)
                                         A chunk of my taxes go to the same things - (boxley) - (3)
                                             :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                             And at this point I can probably make the same comment - (crazy) - (1)
                                                 anyone making minimum wage can claim that to me today. - (boxley)

Save your piss. Seriously.
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