No I haven't

Post #312,046 by drook 7/30/09 12:22:28 PM Reply	No I haven't I know what you're saying about how things are arranged in Europe vs. the U.S. suburban model, and I actually would prefer the European model. But most of the U.S. isn't arranged that way. Maybe cities are more like that than the suburbs are, but I've been through some bad neighborhoods in Cleveland: Hough (ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hough_Riots), East Cleveland, South Euclid. I've talked to people who live there, and talk about the "black tax". Like so many other supposedly black issues, it's actually a "poor tax". It's just that those two demographics have a pretty significant overlap. In those neighborhoods, choice is much more limited, and typically more expensive. -- Drew
Post #312,050 by beepster 7/30/09 12:41:52 PM Reply	Likely combination of good and bad Been in those areas, and some in NYC where its true that the local choices are pretty dry. There aren't that many places in Philly/Camden like that. There is also that disconnect between the reality of where you live and the expectation. We in the US did a fine job of building up the "big store" mentality, get everybody hooked and then watch it implode with the industry base in most places. East St Louis also comes to mind here. I've seen, however, those in exactly the same plight to exactly what we're being told can't at the same price or less. I've seen it done and done it myself at various points in time. Part of it could very well be that I have both experiences, that of the suburban "big trip" and that of the "get it on your way home" inner city/european model. I, like you, like the second way better...and living in a city like Philly and even camden, this is possible to do. Also possible in most areas of NYC. Its actually how I did it even when living in suburban NJ and working downtown...and I had a grocery store across the street. I had a place for meat, a place for vegetables, all at prices better than the grocery (and higher quality) and I didn't have anything go bad in the fridge. Its not more expensive. You just have to know what your doing and where. That takes local knowledge >and< flexibility..maybe when you add up the time it takes a little more..but that time is made up for in the fact that you are reducing spoilage. So, as with everything else in reality, there's probably truth on both sides of this discussion. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
Post #312,051 by drook 7/30/09 1:02:28 PM Reply	I've always said Philly is different You can be in a relatively nice part of the city, make a wrong turn and two blocks later you're thinking, "Holy shit, I need to get out of here." There are bad neighborhoods in every city, but usually you see them coming. My experience of Philly is probably colored by the fact that some really bad areas were gentrifying when I was going there after work. (Late 80s.) There are ares in Cleveland that are trying to gentrify, like Ohio City / Tremont. My wife and I would both like to live there, but wouldn't want to raise the kids there. -- Drew

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