Post #295,278
10/28/07 9:20:57 PM
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so much for biofuels
[link|http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=24434&Cr=food&Cr1=|http://www.un.org/ap...4434&Cr=food&Cr1=] An independent United Nations human rights expert today called for a five-year moratorium on biofuels. Jean Ziegler, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to food, told reporters in New York that converting crops such as maize, wheat and sugar into fuels was driving up the prices of food, land and water. thanx, bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #295,305
10/29/07 8:57:55 AM
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The free market will provide.
Prices go up because demand exceeds supply. The higher prices of such crops will induce the world's farmers to acquire more farmland. One might say that all the arable land is used up but more arable land can be created - cut down forests and jungles.
If that's not enough and demand cannot be met, then the market ensures supply goes to those who need it the most - those who don't really want the crops will drop out the market when the price is too high. If the Third World don't buy crops, they clearly don't want to eat as much as the rich want to drive cars.
If the poor are really that attached to eating, they'll find some means of raising the cash required. Migrating to rich countries, doing the jobs the natives won't do and sending money home is a common method. Obviously, any impediments to worker migration is an impediment to the free market and should be removed.
If migrant workers fail to reach countries with worker demand due to immigration laws, then they clearly don't need the money that much. After all, they can always use the black market. It's the basis of the Russian and various East European economies. Indeed, they've already set up people smuggling operations.
In short, rising crop prices are just part of the system. If the poor are starving they're simply being lazy.
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #295,306
10/29/07 9:45:18 AM
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You're right
I seem to recall the stories about farmers getting government checks for not farming their land to support crop subsidies.
Farmer A: "Yep...Best field of Biofuel maize I never planted."
Farmer B: "Golleeee! Look at all them Greenbucks!"
Smile, Amy
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Post #295,307
10/29/07 11:09:43 AM
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It's worse than that...
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/01/AR2006070100962_pf.html|Washington Post]: Sunday, July 2, 2006; A01
EL CAMPO, Tex. -- Even though Donald R. Matthews put his sprawling new residence in the heart of rice country, he is no farmer. He is a 67-year-old asphalt contractor who wanted to build a dream house for his wife of 40 years.
Yet under a federal agriculture program approved by Congress, his 18-acre suburban lot receives about $1,300 in annual "direct payments," because years ago the land was used to grow rice.
Matthews is not alone. Nationwide, the federal government has paid at least $1.3 billion in subsidies for rice and other crops since 2000 to individuals who do no farming at all, according to an analysis of government records by The Washington Post.
Some of them collect hundreds of thousands of dollars without planting a seed. Mary Anna Hudson, 87, from the River Oaks neighborhood in Houston, has received $191,000 over the past decade. For Houston surgeon Jimmy Frank Howell, the total was $490,709.
"I don't agree with the government's policy," said Matthews, who wanted to give the money back but was told it would just go to other landowners. "They give all of this money to landowners who don't even farm, while real farmers can't afford to get started. It's wrong."
The checks to Matthews and other landowners were intended 10 years ago as a first step toward eventually eliminating costly, decades-old farm subsidies. Instead, the payments have grown into an even larger subsidy that benefits millionaire landowners, foreign speculators and absentee landlords, as well as farmers.
Most of the money goes to real farmers who grow crops on their land, but they are under no obligation to grow the crop being subsidized. They can switch to a different crop or raise cattle or even grow a stand of timber -- and still get the government payments. The cash comes with so few restrictions that subdivision developers who buy farmland advertise that homeowners can collect farm subsidies on their new back yards.
[...] It makes some sense for farmers to be paid not to grow crops in some cases, but it certainly doesn't make sense for owners of land that can't be used for farming to get the payments. The federal farm programs are a huge mess. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #295,312
10/29/07 2:37:31 PM
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I would say, "Unbelievable"
but there is nothing that doesn't surprise me anymore.
Harrumph.
Smile, Amy
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Post #295,389
10/30/07 11:41:40 AM
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"Nothing that doesn't "? So then it IS "Unbelievable"...?
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Post #295,391
10/30/07 11:49:38 AM
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oops
/me backs sheepishly off to stage left, muttering, "There's nothing that surprises me much anymore...there's nothing that surprises me much anymore...
Smile, Amy
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Post #295,328
10/29/07 7:56:12 PM
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Rejoice! The creation of the Third World middle class!
The farmers of agrarian, Third World countries used to be undermined by subsidised food from the industrialised nations. Now the demand for biofuels has changed all that! Rising oil prices makes this high paying market guaranteed. The land owners will finally be able to pay their bank loans and stop being subsistence farmers. With money, the land owners will learn the meaning of enterprise. To improve productivity they'll buy excessive amounts of fertiliser and pesticides and invest in irrigation that drains the water table. Or rather, they'll do lot more of that.
This new middle class who once stuggled to sell to their own nation will regard their domestic market as a waste of time. When they see the irony of farmers mostly buying food from the other side of the world, they'll know they've arrived.
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #295,331
10/29/07 8:49:14 PM
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the landowners will be quickly dispossesed by the diktat
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #295,335
10/29/07 8:53:54 PM
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Ever the Optimist, Aren't we? :-)P
Smile, Amy
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Post #295,377
10/30/07 9:56:27 AM
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I'll go with that
Taking over a countries farms, running them and taking the profits directly is a lot harder than with oil or merely skimming with a corrupt marketing board but that's never stopped people trying and failing.
Rejoice! The Third World ruling classes get richer and mismanage their agriculture!
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #295,379
10/30/07 10:06:27 AM
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zimbabwe fine example
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #295,344
10/30/07 6:21:38 AM
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Well aren't they silly.
There are other "crops" which can be processed to produce biofuel but aren't edible, so they don't eat into the food crop. I believe kudzu qualifies, and there are a number others. Some of them yield quite a bit more than mere corn.
Interesting that the biofuels "industry" chose corn et al. And I'm a little surprised it seems to have fallen apart so quickly.
Wade.
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
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-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my · · [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] · · [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #295,356
10/30/07 7:29:49 AM
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Here's a good scenario
We have a kudzu problem here in the States, but we couldn't convince anyone that they could make any money using it for biofuels. So, push the corn angle until it hits critical mass and implodes. Sheepishly suggest that kudzu is the answer and watch them run like Oklahoma Sooners.
Smile, Amy
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Post #295,358
10/30/07 7:31:14 AM
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hemp being much more multiuse
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #295,376
10/30/07 9:43:41 AM
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Still means less overpriced food
The problem with biofuels is insufficient, arable land. Land growing inedible crud is still land not growing food sold to poor markets at a reasonable price. The WTO could run a policy of growing sufficient food around the globe to keep prices reasonable and only growing inedible crops on the spare land but I can't see that happening.
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #295,383
10/30/07 10:23:34 AM
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The biofuel industry chose corn because . . .
. . they could combine lobbying pressure with the powerful grain lobby to put irresistable pressure on congress critters. This biofuels thing has nothing at all to do with energy efficiency, energy independence or global warming and everything to do with money. All those other considerations are a convenient cover to get support from various grass roots enthusiasts.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #295,384
10/30/07 10:46:04 AM
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Besides...
(Currently) It takes nearly 7% more energy to make a gallon of ethanol from Corn than a gallon of ethanol provides.
At least that's is the rumors I've been hearing for a few years.
In any case, originally, I thought it was supposed to make gasoline burn cleaner, but not a replacement.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey PGP key: 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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Post #295,387
10/30/07 11:11:50 AM
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That 7% may be low . . .
. . but how can we know with so many people obfuscating the figures?
Yes, ethanol was originally just an additive to replace toxic MTBEs which were leaching into the groundwater, mainly to raise the octane rating. Then it got political.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #295,390
10/30/07 11:45:24 AM
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Do you *ever* use "etc", or do you think "et al" means...
...*exactly the same* as "etc" used to mean?
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
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Post #295,392
10/30/07 11:56:55 AM
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Etc=things, et al=people....HTH :-)
Smile, Amy
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Post #295,430
10/31/07 7:38:52 AM
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HT... Whom, exactly, do you think you're H'ing?
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Post #295,436
10/31/07 8:36:08 AM
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I know, I know...
meant to go up one notch and forgot.
Now the roasting will be on me. (re: the other thread)
Smile, Amy
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Post #295,398
10/30/07 1:11:05 PM
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etc is where you keep the configurations for bin HTH
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
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Post #295,424
10/31/07 12:25:06 AM
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Not really sure, now that I think about it.
I know 'et al' and 'etc' are different, though only marginally. I don't know why I started using it, but I seem to use 'et al.' to mean "and others", which is literally correct, but grammatically incorrect when meaning things not people. I had been taught that 'etc.' meant "and so on" which is correct in modern usage, but not literally correct. To my thinking, the difference between the two is mostly the former implies a fixed (but not necessarily known) list, whilst the latter implies an open-ended list.
Perhaps it's because 'etc' is so overused - finding something else when the overuse annoys me is one of my traits.
Wade.
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
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-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my · · [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] · · [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #295,484
11/1/07 11:54:03 AM
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Cetera="everything else", alia="other things"
Cetera="everything else", alia="other things"
Easy to tell apart in these other idomatic expressions:
"Ceteris paribus" means "everything else being equal"
"Inter alia" means "Among other things"
If they made diving boards six inches shorter - think how much sooner you'd be in the water. -- Piet Hein
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