you cannot legislate stupidity and shouldnt try

Post #292,204 by boxley 9/3/07 8:56:06 AM Reply	you cannot legislate stupidity and shouldnt try Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #292,207 by pwhysall 9/3/07 9:09:21 AM Reply	Re: you cannot legislate stupidity and shouldnt try I assume you mean "you cannot legislate against stupidity". Actually, we can and do. All the time. Drink drive laws and gun safety laws, to name but two that exist in the USA. Pretty much all safety legislation is designed to protect people from their own dumb selves. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #292,212 by boxley 9/3/07 10:51:28 AM Reply	difference being nanny et all would like to see the burden places on the atv manufacturers not the idiots driving them. Today we have a case where 2 kids driving at night following dad on a dirt bike and fell down an abandoned mine shaft. Keeping in mind that most of these mines are on public lands and havnt been worked in eons. Nanny would like a battalion of trial lawyers lined up to sue the manufaturer for this defect. Thats what gets my goat. Drink Driving is placed correctly on the driver not the manufacturer of booze. thanx, bill Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #292,215 by Seamus 9/3/07 11:07:59 AM Reply	You have no idea what you are talking about In the case of drunk driving, bars that served the driver. I am not real found of these laws, I think they can be abused. The issue is about kids using adult sized, causing accidents and the associated health care costs. Nothing about allowing anyone to sue anybody else. Seamus
Post #292,218 by boxley 9/3/07 11:51:00 AM Reply	so why dance around the head of a pin? In the case of drunk driving, bars that served the driver. I am not real found of these laws, I think they can be abused. I have yet to meet a bartender who forced a patron into his car and told him to drive or else. Clear case of stupidity and the law. The issue is about kids using adult sized, causing accidents and the associated health care costs. Nothing about allowing anyone to sue anybody else. so present a useful solution rather than defending people who want to blame manufacturers. thanx, bill Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #292,226 by Seamus 9/3/07 12:21:07 PM Reply	You are the one doing the dancing Bartenders and others who servers who sell alcohol are supposed to not over serve. If a bartender makes a reasonable effort to keep someone they sold alcohol to from drinking and driving, then shouldn't be liable. It doesn't always work that out way. You are assuming that the doctors and others asking the CPSC to do something, and the CPSC itself, about kids riding adult sized ATVs are blaming manufacturers. The only thing the article addressed was the fact the voluntary program wasn't working, not that it was the manufacturers fault that the program wasn't working. The lawyer sabotaged the process before any talk of a better solution was possible. The was the point of the article and that is why I posted the link. I don't have a solution, but I know we are not going to find a solution if the administration sabotages the process in place to find a solution rather than trying to fix the process. Again, I don't think they want to fix the process, they need it as a straw man to argue against, rather like you. Seamus
Post #292,214 by Seamus 9/3/07 10:59:06 AM Reply	Re: you cannot legislate stupidity and shouldnt try As I am sure you are aware, you are missing the point. The point is the abuse of the process the agency uses to decide what, if any, actions to take. This far into this administration, they should be honest about how they feel about regulation. But they aren't honest markets being better able to regulate themselves because they really believe it. If they did they wouldn't be afraid of debate. But, IMO they don't stand up and say they are against regulation because they want to be free to regulate if they feel they need to. Nothing in the article indicated they had any specific regulation in mind. But what the lawyer did accomplish was to short circuit any discussion of the cost to society, not just the victims, of this particular brand of stupidity and what can be done about it. Maybe they would have started with an increased public awareness campaign. But, expecting the industry to voluntaryily forgo sales growth for the sake of safety doesn't work either. Seamus
Post #292,219 by boxley 9/3/07 12:01:22 PM Reply	there you go, finally admitting it But, expecting the industry to voluntaryily forgo sales growth for the sake of safety doesn't work either. so the industry must be forced to forego sales to prevent injuries by misuse by children. That is easily fixed. Use the equestrian activities law and adapt it. UNDER THE (INSERT STATE HERE) EQUINE ACTIVITY LIABILTIY ACT, AN EQUINE PROFESSIONAL IS NOT LIABLE FOR AN INJUJRY TO OR THE DEATH OF A PARTICIPANT IN AN EQUINE ACTIVITY RESULTING FROM AN INHERENT RISK OF AN EQUINE ACTIVITY. to UNDER THE (INSERT STATE HERE) ATV ACTIVITY LIABILTIY ACT, AN ATV maufacturer or reseller/rental agent of same IS NOT LIABLE FOR AN INJUJRY TO OR THE DEATH OF A PARTICIPANT IN AN ATV ACTIVITY RESULTING FROM AN INHERENT RISK OF AN ATV ACTIVITY. have them sign the waiver at the point of sale or rental. Now somehow I suspect you wouldnt go for such a solution thanks, bill Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #292,227 by Seamus 9/3/07 12:23:58 PM Reply	I would, I doubt they would It might also need to address age and weight limits. Seamus

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