Yes. Thats exactly what I'm saying.

Post #285,545 by bepatient 5/27/07 11:53:29 PM Reply	Yes. Thats exactly what I'm saying. [link\|http://www.pww.org/article/view/7815/1/288/\|http://www.pww.org/a.../view/7815/1/288/] Kika Matos, director of Junta for Progressive Action, urged the board to adopt an official position of non-enforcement of national immigration laws, a policy adopted by the city governments of Austin, Texas, and Denver. She also urged the establishment of a city office of immigrant affairs along the lines of those set up in Los Angeles, Boston and Philadelphia. Another example of a lobby for non-enforcment. Certainly doesn't sound like a conservative group. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #285,560 by Simon_Jester 5/28/07 10:37:22 AM Reply	Close.... But aren't they lobbying the City Counsel....doesn't the City Counsel make the laws for the city (back to Legistlative branch). There was a reason I asked about lobbying the executive branch. Furthermore, immigration lobbyists have existed for a LONG time. I didn't claim they didn't exist. Certainly doesn't sound like a conservative group. Well, damn, let's find some conservative groups that support immigration reform before we tar and feather all them damn heathen liberal democrats for destroying our country, why don't we? Let's start with [link\|http://www.cirnow.org/\|Coalition for Comprehensive Immigration Reform] Why them? Well [link\|http://www.michellemalkin.com/\|Michelle Malkin] has declared them to be all evil and stuff. (Michelle Malkin against immigration - how's that for irony) [link\|http://www.cirnow.org/content/en/support_cir_bill.htm\|CIRNOW] lists support including.... American Jewish Committee (AJC) The Anti-Defamation League Archdiocese of Atlanta Arizona Interfaith Network (AIN) Church of the Nazarene Conservatives and Business Representatives Episcopal Migration Ministries (EMM) Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS) Irish Parliament Jesuit Conference and Jesuit Refugee Service USA Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service & Evangelical Lutheran Church in America National Council of Churches USA National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) I suppose these sound like Liberal groups? PS: as a followup, you might look more to the conversative party for not enforcing the rules in place regarding immigration. In 1999, over 400 employers were fined for hiring illegal labor. Under George Bush in 2004, Immigration and Customs Enforcement issued three intent letters but issued ZERO fines. [link\|http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1111\| source ]
Post #285,569 by bepatient 5/28/07 10:53:47 AM Reply	Sure. But penalizing those who hire is a completely different subject. Creating safe harbor then denying work would make the situation even worse. It all has to be enforced, and trust me, Mr B doesn't get a pass on this. But the specific creation of safe harbor and the systematic refusal by law enforcement to enforce the law is a creation of consistent lobbying in the highly democratic urban environment. As for the CCIR, the issue, imo, is that it says it is for "comprehensive" reform, yet it does nothing to address any issues other than those to protect folks already here....which means essentially it makes it even more enticing for immigrants to cross illegally. Like I said in a different post...it "builds the wall" in the wrong direction. Its amnesty in a more palatable sound bite..which is why MM is off the hook about it. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #285,607 by Simon_Jester 5/28/07 6:31:50 PM Reply	Sorry, still disagree on this one and we may have to agree to disagree. But the specific creation of safe harbor and the systematic refusal by law enforcement to enforce the law is a creation of consistent lobbying in the highly democratic urban environment. First, I don't agree that the creation of safe harbor and the refusal by some law enforcement to enforce the law is the creation of consistent lobbying by ANYONE. I see it in terms of economics and responsibility. The Federal governement isn't doing it's job at protecting the borders and you're blaming local police forces that haven't been given any funding to pick up the work because Congress passed resolutions giving them the force to do it. (What's humorous about it is that most police forces that you've quoted are anxious to get and use these forces because they'll use them where and when they want to to make their job easier.) Second, and maybe I'm reading too much into this one, you appear to be blaming liberals and democrats for this. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this because you're citing highly urban areas. But I've given you lists of traditional Conservates organizations that are involved and even named Republican Leadership involved. It all has to be enforced, and trust me, Mr B doesn't get a pass on this. Yeah, right. Let's get this straight: you cited an article of a local county not doing it's job (because they cited it wasn't their responsibility) and it took me to find cites on Mr B?
Post #285,619 by bepatient 5/28/07 7:59:43 PM Reply	I guess we will since the links are for reformers. Sanctuary policies are not reform. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #285,639 by Simon_Jester 5/28/07 9:53:28 PM Reply	You don't look very hard but then again, I doubt you really want to see. Metropolitan Organizing Strategy Enabling Strength (MOSES) takes credit for lobbying the Detroit City Council to consider providing \ufffdsanctuary\ufffd for illegal aliens. According to their website, MOSES is a \ufffdcongregation-centered, faith-based community organization reflecting the religious, racial, and ethnic diversity of Metropolitan Detroit.\ufffd According to their IRS tax forms, MOSES is a 501(c) (3) charity that seeks to \ufffdprovide safe zones\ufffd and to \ufffdorganize to get funding for drug prevention work with 53 member churches in the metro area.\ufffd [link\|http://www.nowpublic.com/sanctuary_cities_embrace_illegal_immigrants\| Source ] [link\|http://www.mosesmi.org/\| MOSES ] [link\|http://www.mosesmi.org/index_files/Page4326.htm\| credits ] Those seeking a change in federal policies will announce Wednesday the launch of a new sanctuary movement designed to protect illegal immigrants from deportation and spur immigration reform. Announcements will be made at St. Mark's Cathedral in Seattle as well as in Los Angeles, New York and other cities. The movement is billed as a revival of a church-sponsored one in the 1980s that helped Central Americans fleeing civil wars. Houses of worship will participate in the interfaith movement by offering housing, legal help, financial assistance and advocacy. "Identities and faces and names (of those given sanctuary will not be) concealed," said Michael Ramos, director of social justice ministries for the Church Council of Greater Seattle. "We're not talking about breaking the law. But it's symbolic of a broken immigration system." [link\|http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/314876_sanctuary09.html\| Source ]

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