Yeah, and on black ice or hydroplaning

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Post #236,556 by jake123 11/30/05 12:46:50 PM 11/30/05 1:01:32 PM Reply	Yeah, and on black ice or hydroplaning you can't steer when you're not locked up either. ABS will help when hydroplaning, but not on black ice. That's why it's so dangerous, and features prominently in every driver's license test in Canada, 'cause it's not like there's any shortage of black ice in this country. A lot of the time, if you're on a highway and you hit a patch, whether you wipe out or not has almost nothing to do with the driver and everything to do with dumb luck. Like I said, it's not like I'm saying ABS is bad, but if you need it to drive in icy conditions then you shouldn't be driving in icy conditions. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] \n------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by jake123 Nov. 30, 2005, 01:01:32 PM EST Yeah, and on black ice or hydroplaning you can't steer when you're not locked up either. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca * * [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] * * Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] * ------------------------------------------------------------------- Collapse All History
Post #236,559 by drewk 11/30/05 1:00:26 PM Reply	Congratulations, you've described the 1% case First, in those cases you can't steer without anti-lock, so it's not an argument against it anyway. But more importantly, in cases of reduced traction, there are very few people who can outperform modern anti-lock. And you're not one of them. So for you and me and most everyone else who don't make our living as professional drivers; for those of us who don't regularly practice panic braking on wet, off-camber turns; anti-lock will nearly always be no worse than not having it, while frequently being far superior. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,562 by jake123 11/30/05 1:05:19 PM Reply	Not 1% up here, Drew. I got to look at quite a few nice patches on the streets around here after the freeze up last night. The one on the corner of Wellington and Queen is a really nice one, about eight feet by fifteen feet, covering the northwest corner of the intersection. I'm sure it's been salted now, but people going down Queen last night to catch the ferry to the island (or just heading downtown for a drink) would all have hit that patch. P.S. read the edit for more on my point of view on ABS. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------

Gentle(men|women), I present to you: A Big Hairy Puff - (pwhysall) - (118) - Nov. 29, 2005, 04:05:06 PM EST

The automatic transmission is an abomination. - (Andrew Grygus) - (64) - Nov. 29, 2005, 04:25:15 PM EST

No, no, no, you don't understand. - (admin) - (62) - Nov. 29, 2005, 04:29:26 PM EST

LOL -NT - (SpiceWare) - Nov. 29, 2005, 04:31:21 PM EST

:-D -NT - (Another Scott) - Nov. 29, 2005, 04:56:29 PM EST

IFS!___IFS! -NT - (Ashton) - Nov. 29, 2005, 05:08:57 PM EST

Actually a pretty good metaphor - (drewk) - (58) - Nov. 30, 2005, 09:47:41 AM EST

Re: Actually a pretty good metaphor - (pwhysall) - (57) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:08:03 AM EST

that argument doesnt wash - (boxley) - (11) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:21:53 AM EST

Cars are just like trains, Box. - (pwhysall) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:46:35 AM EST

Traction motors == no clutch - (jb4) - (9) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:39:09 PM EST

No they don't - the track has control. - (Andrew Grygus) - (8) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:44:54 PM EST

Erm...Huh?!? - (jb4) - (7) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:26:40 PM EST

Reading with comprehension? - (jake123) - (6) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:31:36 PM EST

I guess that depends on what the definition of... - (jb4) - (5) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:37:52 PM EST

Yes, I meant the external environment - sorry to be unclear. - (Andrew Grygus) - (4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:42:54 PM EST

Understood. However, you may not have heard about... - (jb4) - (3) - Nov. 30, 2005, 02:59:25 PM EST

Trying to stop 21,000,000# plus consist... - (folkert) - (2) - Dec. 1, 2005, 12:12:19 PM EST

It was a commuter train. - (jb4) - (1) - Dec. 2, 2005, 02:26:10 PM EST

FRED... fergot about it. - (folkert) - Dec. 2, 2005, 10:33:26 PM EST

Enjoy it while you can. - (Another Scott) - (30) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:39:33 AM EST

Riiight. - (pwhysall) - (18) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:45:19 AM EST

GM used that excuse for years against anti-lock brakes - (drewk) - (17) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:22:54 PM EST

Icy conditions? Sure, no problem here - (jake123) - (4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:37:11 PM EST

You can't steer while locked up -NT - (drewk) - (3) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:39:53 PM EST

Yeah, and on black ice or hydroplaning - (jake123) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:01:32 PM EST

Congratulations, you've described the 1% case - (drewk) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:00:26 PM EST

Not 1% up here, Drew. - (jake123) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:05:19 PM EST

Of course I have antilock. - (pwhysall) - (10) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:38:07 PM EST

Re: Of course I have antilock. - (Steve Lowe) - (9) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:20:44 PM EST

and early autos did have ignition control . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (8) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:26:01 PM EST

Now I understand the helmet! -NT - (jbrabeck) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:32:11 PM EST

Yup, that was my point - (drewk) - (6) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:38:31 PM EST

If you want to control *anything*... - (pwhysall) - (3) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:46:36 PM EST

You didn't say, "This is one thing I'd like to control." - (drewk) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:50:43 PM EST

Programmers. So damned literal all the time. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:56:41 PM EST

But it doesn't - (drewk) - Nov. 30, 2005, 05:22:58 PM EST

No, I'm not that much of a control freak. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 04:00:10 PM EST

ICLRPD (new thread) - (Steve Lowe) - Dec. 1, 2005, 12:08:14 AM EST

Dupe - (pwhysall) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:39:51 PM EST

I'm not sure I want a "highway that drives itself" ;-) -NT - (jb4) - (10) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:43:30 PM EST

Luddite. ________________________________________________;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - Nov. 30, 2005, 02:02:28 PM EST

I do - (tuberculosis) - (8) - Nov. 30, 2005, 04:36:05 PM EST

That I don't want - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 05:35:48 PM EST

But if *everyone* had that feature ... -NT - (drewk) - (3) - Nov. 30, 2005, 05:52:40 PM EST

Then we would all get car sick - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 06:19:43 PM EST

I assumed distance by speed - (drewk) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 06:24:01 PM EST

I think it is OK if some cars don't follow the rules... - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 30, 2005, 06:28:00 PM EST

Actually, I'd just as soon the highway stays put.... -NT - (jb4) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 05:43:20 PM EST

But, The Roads Must Roll. -NT - (Silverlock) - (1) - Dec. 1, 2005, 09:11:31 AM EST

Ever on and on. - (admin) - Dec. 1, 2005, 09:52:07 AM EST

(somewhat) Rhetorical question: - (jb4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:29:07 PM EST

Peter, on this topic you are an idiot - (ben_tilly) - (9) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:14:07 PM EST

This does rather remind me of Todd's many diatribes... - (jb4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:29:57 PM EST

Complete piffle. - (pwhysall) - (4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:32:59 PM EST

So what you're saying is... - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:52:23 PM EST

If you want to reframe what I said without reading it, yes. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 02:10:52 PM EST

I read it - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 30, 2005, 05:32:49 PM EST

And I've already pointed out that people are different. - (admin) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:53:32 PM EST

Dupe -NT - (pwhysall) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:39:13 PM EST

Looks like Peter keeps double-clutching his mouse -NT - (drewk) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:28:04 PM EST

ICLRPD (new thread) - (static) - Nov. 30, 2005, 08:23:56 PM EST

Does FULL control over vehicle include - (jbrabeck) - Nov. 30, 2005, 03:30:16 PM EST

Yep, downshifting - (SpiceWare) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 04:31:55 PM EST

My auto has a button just for that - (tuberculosis) - Nov. 30, 2005, 04:34:38 PM EST

Sane? That clearly makes them totally inappropriate . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - Nov. 29, 2005, 04:48:31 PM EST

we dont need no steenking clutches, get the revs right -NT - (boxley) - Nov. 29, 2005, 06:41:46 PM EST

He's complaining about the wrong problem. - (static) - (1) - Nov. 29, 2005, 06:43:01 PM EST

Traction motors for cars! Yessss! -NT - (jb4) - Nov. 29, 2005, 06:57:13 PM EST

What a freak. - (inthane-chan) - (10) - Nov. 29, 2005, 06:49:59 PM EST

Tachometer? - (Yendor) - Nov. 29, 2005, 08:18:02 PM EST

We weren't aware that you were missing yours :-) -NT - (imqwerky) - Nov. 29, 2005, 11:44:05 PM EST

Why'd you buy an auto then, you ninny? -NT - (pwhysall) - (7) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:41:51 AM EST

When you have $1500 for a reliable car, you can't be picky. -NT - (inthane-chan) - (6) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:46:46 AM EST

Shurely a manual is *cheaper*? - (pwhysall) - (4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:48:00 AM EST

Note the phrase "reliable". - (inthane-chan) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:01:27 PM EST

I can relate to that - (Nightowl) - Nov. 30, 2005, 08:49:46 PM EST

When new, yes - (drewk) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:21:47 PM EST

Ezzzakly. - (Andrew Grygus) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:08:43 PM EST

Dude. I have the site for *you*. - (pwhysall) - Nov. 30, 2005, 02:14:52 PM EST

Would you believe ... I drive an automatic!:) - (Meerkat) - Nov. 30, 2005, 06:54:31 AM EST

Stick shift - (dmcarls) - (30) - Nov. 30, 2005, 09:03:50 AM EST

You should be "involved"... - (pwhysall) - (24) - Nov. 30, 2005, 09:10:27 AM EST

Where's your ignition timing control? - (drewk) - Nov. 30, 2005, 09:48:29 AM EST

There is "involved" and then there is "Involved" - (admin) - (8) - Nov. 30, 2005, 09:58:18 AM EST

Other circumstances, also. - (Steve Lowe) - (6) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:37:27 AM EST

That's exceptional, though, innit? - (pwhysall) - (5) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:46:58 AM EST

Nope - stop and go driving is where the automatic shines - (tuberculosis) - (4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:43:17 PM EST

Bingo - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:06:32 PM EST

I just said I prefer a manual in traffic. - (pwhysall) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:34:28 PM EST

Crap automatic vs nice manual - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:45:10 PM EST

250 miles, up the A1, Friday afternoon. - (pwhysall) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:49:42 PM EST

You obviously do NOT live anywhere near Chicago: - (jb4) - Nov. 30, 2005, 12:47:30 PM EST

Sheesh, Peter! You should know better... - (CRConrad) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:34:01 AM EST

Why? Didn't Ford invent the car? - (jbrabeck) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:40:53 AM EST

Amen, My Son - but Attention on What, exactly.. - (Ashton) - (11) - Dec. 1, 2005, 02:30:12 AM EST

Well, (corrected Nuvolari) had transmission problems too - (Andrew Grygus) - (10) - Dec. 1, 2005, 10:53:16 AM EST

Yea, Tazio! an Italian tenor with fast wheels. - (Ashton) - (9) - Dec. 1, 2005, 06:51:31 PM EST

Speaking of virtuosity - (drewk) - (3) - Dec. 1, 2005, 07:31:27 PM EST

Zowie! -NT - (Another Scott) - Dec. 1, 2005, 10:32:03 PM EST

dancing with motorcycles -NT - (cforde) - Dec. 1, 2005, 11:20:38 PM EST

Re: Speaking of virtuosity - (Ashton) - Dec. 2, 2005, 04:24:43 AM EST

Or, in the words of Ferdinand Porsche . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (4) - Dec. 1, 2005, 08:10:34 PM EST

Would that some film exists (?) - (Ashton) - (3) - Dec. 2, 2005, 04:34:08 AM EST

Who here reads Hungarian? 21 kB .img - (Another Scott) - (2) - Dec. 2, 2005, 08:08:08 AM EST

Comprehensive site in English . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Dec. 2, 2005, 08:21:19 AM EST

While we're reminiscing... (new thread) - (pwhysall) - Dec. 2, 2005, 08:32:12 AM EST

On being involved... - (dmcarls) - Nov. 30, 2005, 10:59:10 AM EST

Yeah, and we know damned well what that 'other things' is. - (Andrew Grygus) - (3) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:18:02 PM EST

Er, no. - (admin) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:57:52 PM EST

There's always those pesky exceptions aren't there? -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 01:59:27 PM EST

Whoops. - (admin) - Nov. 30, 2005, 02:01:20 PM EST

manual transmission becomes second nature - (SpiceWare) - (2) - Nov. 30, 2005, 04:25:19 PM EST

It does but I get more tired with 2 feet on 3 pedals vs 1-1 - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Nov. 30, 2005, 04:27:35 PM EST

True - (SpiceWare) - Nov. 30, 2005, 04:38:51 PM EST

Hey! HTF am I supposed to..... - (n3jja) - (3) - Nov. 30, 2005, 07:00:28 PM EST

Just leave the brake on. -NT - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 30, 2005, 08:12:53 PM EST

too early, missed the f in shift -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 1, 2005, 08:45:30 AM EST

A missed shift grinds gears in Box -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - Dec. 1, 2005, 10:54:14 AM EST

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