Enjoy it while you can.

Post #236,535 by Another Scott 11/30/05 10:39:33 AM Reply	Enjoy it while you can. Perhaps you've heard about the transmission on the (previous generation?) [link\|http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.corvette/browse_thread/thread/149c4374432119f7/515de59b65f02713%23515de59b65f02713?sa=X&oi=groupsr&start=1&num=3\|Corvette]? From: acebud...@aol.com (Acebudsie) Date: 20 Apr 2001 09:52:44 GMT Subject: 1st to 4th shifting I just ordered a 2001 Magentic Red coupe and am now hearing about the 1st to 4th shifting restrictions on the 6-speed. Can anyone tell me what this is and how I get rid of it?. What little I know smells like EPA or some other equally intrusive government agency. From: "hcstock\ufffd" <hcst...@home.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:46:40 GMT Subject: Re: 1st to 4th shifting Pardon my ignorance, but it being a six speed I assume it is a manual. How can the car shift or do anything like stated? Is this a six speed automatic? Thanks, Curt From: Mike <m...@mikejaeggi.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:07:57 GMT Subject: Re: 1st to 4th shifting It's a manual transmission. It prevents you from shifting into 2nd or 3rd and forces you to shift to 4th. -Mike, '99 Torch Red Convert It was GM's scheme to get greater fuel economy from the car. That's just the tip of the iceberg. The [link\|http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/LexusIS/\|2006 Lexus IS] has a radar cruise control option that cuts your speed if it thinks you're too close to the car in front. More features like this will be added to cars for 3 reasons: 1) it drives up the price; 2) it can be touted as a safety feature; 3) it helps advance technologies that will eventually be used to control traffic speeds. People are even working on cars and highways that drive themselves. So enjoy your full row-it-yourself box while you can. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #236,537 by pwhysall 11/30/05 10:45:19 AM Reply	Riiight. The first time someone crashes with that they'll go "It weren't me, it were my intelligent transmission, ossifer, and I'll see anyone in court what sez different" Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,548 by drewk 11/30/05 12:22:54 PM Reply	GM used that excuse for years against anti-lock brakes Their real reason, of course, was that people weren't willing to pay the premium for it. So does your car have anti-lock, Peter? If not, have you ever driven without anti-lock in icy conditions? Would you willingly do so if given the option? And you didn't answer my [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=236523\|earlier question]: Where's your ignition timing control? === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,550 by jake123 11/30/05 12:37:11 PM Reply	Icy conditions? Sure, no problem here it's not like I've not been doing that since I was eight (thanks, Grandfather!). That's not to say that anti-lock is bad or anything, but driving in icy conditions is a skill, and you need it no matter what kind of brakes you have. ABS makes your car a little more forgiving, but not much. If you don't slow down, you'll just have a controlled drive into the car in front of you instead of an uncontrolled drive. No matter what, you're going to end up either in the ditch or hitting the car in front of you. Even ABS brakes don't help much when you're on black ice. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #236,552 by drewk 11/30/05 12:39:53 PM Reply	You can't steer while locked up === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,556 by jake123 11/30/05 12:46:50 PM 11/30/05 1:01:32 PM Reply	Yeah, and on black ice or hydroplaning you can't steer when you're not locked up either. ABS will help when hydroplaning, but not on black ice. That's why it's so dangerous, and features prominently in every driver's license test in Canada, 'cause it's not like there's any shortage of black ice in this country. A lot of the time, if you're on a highway and you hit a patch, whether you wipe out or not has almost nothing to do with the driver and everything to do with dumb luck. Like I said, it's not like I'm saying ABS is bad, but if you need it to drive in icy conditions then you shouldn't be driving in icy conditions. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by jake123 Nov. 30, 2005, 01:01:32 PM EST Expand All History
Post #236,559 by drewk 11/30/05 1:00:26 PM Reply	Congratulations, you've described the 1% case First, in those cases you can't steer without anti-lock, so it's not an argument against it anyway. But more importantly, in cases of reduced traction, there are very few people who can outperform modern anti-lock. And you're not one of them. So for you and me and most everyone else who don't make our living as professional drivers; for those of us who don't regularly practice panic braking on wet, off-camber turns; anti-lock will nearly always be no worse than not having it, while frequently being far superior. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,562 by jake123 11/30/05 1:05:19 PM Reply	Not 1% up here, Drew. I got to look at quite a few nice patches on the streets around here after the freeze up last night. The one on the corner of Wellington and Queen is a really nice one, about eight feet by fifteen feet, covering the northwest corner of the intersection. I'm sure it's been salted now, but people going down Queen last night to catch the ferry to the island (or just heading downtown for a drink) would all have hit that patch. P.S. read the edit for more on my point of view on ABS. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #236,581 by pwhysall 11/30/05 1:38:07 PM Reply	Of course I have antilock. And traction control. Which I turn off in snow. ABS doesn't stop you quicker, by the way. I also turn it off in endemically slippery conditions, because there's nothing worse than a momentary lock on one wheel causing the ABS to kick in with it's FUCKYOURPADSFUCKYOURPADSFUCKYOURPADS racket over bugger all. Brakes are more-or-less useless in really slick conditions, anyhoo. And I don't give a fuck about my ignition timing control, because I don't turn the ignition whilst the car is moving. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,619 by Steve Lowe 11/30/05 3:20:44 PM Reply	Re: Of course I have antilock. And I don't give a fuck about my ignition timing control, because I don't turn the ignition whilst the car is moving. Your car's computer does, constantly, just like it controls shifting in the transmission in most modern vehicles with automatics. -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #236,623 by Andrew Grygus 11/30/05 3:26:01 PM Reply	and early autos did have ignition control . . . . . generally a separate lever in the center of the steering wheel. This was replaced by the centrifugal and vacuum advances built into the distributor. This is not a problem because it responds pretty much instantaneously to current engine conditions. The probalem with automatic transmissions is that they cannot anticipate the intended actions of the driver and they're slower to respond to current conditions and often wrong. Of course not everyone drives as aggressively as I do so many are happy with the automatic. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,627 by jbrabeck 11/30/05 3:32:11 PM Reply	Now I understand the helmet! A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #236,629 by drewk 11/30/05 3:38:31 PM Reply	Yup, that was my point Ignition timing used to be a manual process. And when they figured out a way to automate it, there were people who criticized the loss of control. And some of them were even right, for a while. Until they improved the performance of the automatic systems. So if your issue with an automatic is that it doesn't react quickly enough -- which you, Andrew, seem to be saying -- then you may be right. Or you may think you're a better, more agressive driver than you really are. (You did say you haven't felt the need for the "performance" switch yet, right?) But if your position is that stick is better because it demands more attention, then you should also be in favor of manually controlling the ignition timing. And the fuel richness. And the injector timing. And ... and ... and ... === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,633 by pwhysall 11/30/05 3:46:36 PM Reply	If you want to control anything... ...you want to control everything? Blimey. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,638 by drewk 11/30/05 3:50:43 PM Reply	You didn't say, "This is one thing I'd like to control." You said, "This is something that everyone, especially inattentive drivers, should be forced to control, as it will demand more attention from them." I'm just suggesting other things that would demand more attention. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,640 by pwhysall 11/30/05 3:56:41 PM Reply	Programmers. So damned literal all the time. I had a situation today where I had to explain (to a developer) that saying "Bad format at line XXXX" wasn't helpful, as the format could have been wrong in at least a half-dozen different ways, and line XXXX could be anywhere in a three-million-line-long text file, and the thing causing indigestion at line XXXX could have been at line YYYY, also anywhere in a three-million-line-long text file. And I didn't say that, anyway. I said that it demands more attention on the driving situation at hand, because it forces you to pay more attention to the speed and situation of your vehicle. Which is NOT what you just said that I said. So neener. I'm so going to tip you in that damn pool next time, permissions-boi. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,663 by drewk 11/30/05 5:22:58 PM Reply	But it doesn't I said that it demands more attention on the driving situation at hand, because it forces you to pay more attention to the speed and situation of your vehicle. No, it demands you pay attention to the speed and situation of your engine and transmission. This is related to the speed and situation of your vehicle. The Toyota minivan I rented last weekend ran so quietly I could not have shifted without staring at the tach. I never knew what gear it was in, and frankly didn't care. There was one point when I wanted to merge and knew I'd need to drop a gear. I just floored it a half-second before I knew I'd want to speed up. So by having a grasp of my speed and situation, I was able to react appropriately. Without a stick-shift. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,641 by Andrew Grygus 11/30/05 4:00:10 PM Reply	No, I'm not that much of a control freak. My point is that an automatic transmission cannot anticipate my needs, in fact it's a second or two behind. I can anticipate my needs and see that my engine speed and gearing will be what I need them to be when I need them. The Saturn's greater engine power combined with much better selections by the automatic transmission is a vast improvement over the Escort, but it's still sometimes messing around doing the wrong thing for a second or two and has to change its mind. Automatic ignition timing and injection control are better than I'd want to bother to be at their job, so I'm perfectly happy to let them have those functions. Now, for my real complaint. This Saturn is the first car I've had with an alarm system built in. Now that stupid thing is a TOTAL pain in the ass. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,701 by Steve Lowe 12/1/05 12:08:14 AM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #236700 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=236700\|ICLRPD] -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #236,582 by pwhysall 11/30/05 1:38:08 PM 11/30/05 1:39:51 PM Reply	Dupe I must have the shakes, or something. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! Edited by pwhysall Nov. 30, 2005, 01:39:50 PM EST Edited by pwhysall Nov. 30, 2005, 01:39:51 PM EST Expand All History
Post #236,554 by jb4 11/30/05 12:43:30 PM Reply	I'm not sure I want a "highway that drives itself" ;-) jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #236,594 by Another Scott 11/30/05 2:02:28 PM Reply	Luddite. ________________________________________________;-)
Post #236,650 by tuberculosis 11/30/05 4:36:05 PM Reply	I do or rather, I want a little 'auto-creep' mode that locks onto vehicle ahead and maintains distance when travelling below 15 mph. How hard can that be? "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #236,667 by ben_tilly 11/30/05 5:35:48 PM Reply	That I don't want I like looking about 5 cars ahead then letting a gap open up when local traffic goes faster, and close down when traffic slows. It is amazing how much I can avoid touching gas or brakes by doing this. Giving me much better mileage and less wear. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #236,673 by drewk 11/30/05 5:52:40 PM Reply	But if everyone had that feature ... === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,675 by ben_tilly 11/30/05 6:19:43 PM Reply	Then we would all get car sick Or I would at least. Because people ahead speed up and slow down, and I couldn't take matching their motions exactly. Also if you watch, the "stops" in stop and go traffic seem to get started because someone tried to do a lane change too late. They stopped, then people stop behind them, and you get a wave going backwards. Having everyone match the car in front of you wouldn't help with that. But I would like it if the rule wasn't "constant distance" but rather "distance depending on speed". That would smooth things out. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #236,678 by drewk 11/30/05 6:24:01 PM Reply	I assumed distance by speed Most of the "smart highway" plans assume this, and show how great the traffic flow is. What they always fail to mention is a tragedy of the commons problem. Put one car in the mix that isn't using the same system as everyone else and the whole thing is hosed. IOW it's the kind of thing that will only work if it's mandated. Whether that is likely to happen or not is left to the reader. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,679 by ben_tilly 11/30/05 6:28:00 PM Reply	I think it is OK if some cars don't follow the rules... I remember seeing some simulations that said that if 30% of cars were using the technology, that you got some nice improvement. I remember thinking that if the highways became a bit better, a lot of people would switch back to them for their commute, and they would get worse again. I've never seen anyone try to quantify that though. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #236,670 by jb4 11/30/05 5:43:20 PM Reply	Actually, I'd just as soon the highway stays put.... jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #236,734 by Silverlock 12/1/05 9:11:31 AM Reply	But, The Roads Must Roll. ----------------------------------------- No new taxes. --George H. W. Bush We don't torture. --George W. Bush
Post #236,737 by admin 12/1/05 9:52:07 AM Reply	Ever on and on. Damn rollers. So prone to sabotage. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

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