Stick shift

Post #236,516 by dmcarls 11/30/05 9:03:50 AM Reply	Stick shift FWIW, here's my few cents: There is a large group of people who really don't want to be all that 'involved' in the driving of their vehicles. A manual transmissions demands that you be 'involved'. This very large group would rather be doing other things with their mental faculties and limbs. It sounds like this author is one of that majority.
Post #236,518 by pwhysall 11/30/05 9:10:27 AM Reply	You should be "involved"... ...because if you're not "involved" with your car whilst you're driving it, you're not paying attention. And if you're not paying attention, then you're going to crash. To be honest, if you don't want to be involved, take the bus or a taxi. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,523 by drewk 11/30/05 9:48:29 AM Reply	Where's your ignition timing control? Hey, if you're not going to be involved ... === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,525 by admin 11/30/05 9:58:18 AM Reply	There is "involved" and then there is "Involved" My wife and stick shifts are anathema to each other. She doesn't have the involvement to spare when she's driving a car, as it just isn't her forte. Anything that allows her to spend more time on the actual task at hand (steering, paying attention to the road, not running down pedestrians, etc.), and less doing unnecessarily manual things like shifting, is all to the good. That being said, I prefer a manual when I'm not a) in traffic or b) in bad weather. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #236,534 by Steve Lowe 11/30/05 10:37:27 AM Reply	Other circumstances, also. A few years ago, we had 2 cars that were both sticks, an old Chevy pickup and a Nissan Sentra. My wife had to have surgery on her left foot, and afterward could no longer drive a stick because it would cause pain in her foot. I sold the truck and bought a minivan so we'd have a car she could drive and I took over the Nissan. After driving a stick for 10 years in traffic, when we had to replace the Nissan, it was with an automatic. I'll take an automatic for commuting in traffic any day. -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #236,540 by pwhysall 11/30/05 10:46:58 AM Reply	That's exceptional, though, innit? I prefer a manual in traffic, too. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,553 by tuberculosis 11/30/05 12:43:17 PM Reply	Nope - stop and go driving is where the automatic shines I usually buy manuals, but the current jalopy has auto and I prefer it when all you are doing is letting off the brake periodically to let the car creep up another 30 yards. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #236,563 by ben_tilly 11/30/05 1:06:32 PM Reply	Bingo I have a slight preference for automatics - I'd prefer to focus on the road rather than the car. But I have a huge preference for automatics in rush hour traffic. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #236,578 by pwhysall 11/30/05 1:34:28 PM Reply	I just said I prefer a manual in traffic. I did stop-n-go for 250 miles up the A1 a few Fridays back in an auto, and it was hell. I did it the following Friday in a manual, and it was much better. Gimme a clutch rather than a loud pedal for low-speed control any day of the week. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,586 by ben_tilly 11/30/05 1:45:10 PM Reply	Crap automatic vs nice manual Which is then compared by a manual devotee. Not entirely a fair comparison. I'm also suspecting that if you did 250 miles of "stop and go" in one day, that it wasn't stop and go in the sense that I think of it. When I think stop and go I think of traffic which is varying between 5 and 20. When I do that in a manual I wind up stuck in second moving a speeds where I'd rather be in first, or else in first at speeds where I'd rather be in second but I'm not going to shift because I know that shortly I'll be better off in first. In a decent automatic I don't have an issue. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #236,588 by pwhysall 11/30/05 1:49:42 PM Reply	250 miles, up the A1, Friday afternoon. Horrible, I tell ye! Queues of 6 miles into a roundabout. There's a couple of dozen of these, then there's the fact that there's roadworks, and the entire sodding population of London heads North on Friday afternoons, and yes, it's 5-20MPH for the majority of it. It took me six and a half hours. Not a pleasant trip in ANY car. The manual was crap, too. Pug 407. Powerful-ish above 50MPH, but notchy as fook and gutless in the low/midrange. But it had a CLUTCH. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,557 by jb4 11/30/05 12:47:30 PM Reply	You obviously do NOT live anywhere near Chicago: where all they have is a) traffic and b) bad weather! Which are the top two reasons why I drive automatics exclusively. jb4 shrub●bish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #236,533 by CRConrad 11/30/05 10:34:01 AM Reply	Sheesh, Peter! You should know better... ...than to start this discussion with a bunch of Yanks. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #236,536 by jbrabeck 11/30/05 10:40:01 AM 11/30/05 10:40:53 AM Reply	Why? Didn't Ford invent the car? [image\|/forums/images/warning.png\|0\|This is sarcasm...] tug tug... Yes, I do know better. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Edited by jbrabeck Nov. 30, 2005, 10:40:53 AM EST Expand All History
Post #236,711 by Ashton 12/1/05 2:30:12 AM Reply	Amen, My Son - but Attention on What, exactly.. OK Peter, minor rebuttal-tuning follows - Oh, and condolences upon the Sceptered Isle importing Murican multi-lane parking lots :( First, I think that the most ergonomic (common) interface twixt biped/machine is the serial manual transmission in a motorcycle. The synergy is demonstrable (though always harder to write about.) It even turns out that there's an argument - from human body layout of nerves, etc. - for having the left foot run the rear brake and the right hand handle the front brake: which does 70-90% of the important work, in the sum of all events. (Wish I could recall source of this study) Such was the layout on Brit. bikes - the Japanese arbitrarily and Foolishly disregarded this bit of ergodynamics they were iggerant of - when Soichiro began his invasion of the US wasteland of Harley Trucks, etc. He Moved the #$^#^ shift lever to the Wrong side! ..Still pisses moi off on the Kawasaki, which ain't no Vincent nohow. Stepping into a 4-wheel box produces an immediate loss of connection between one's very-own CG and that of the vehicle + you - and not only via the %factor of all that wasted mass for hauling around a mere 180ish # bag of bones. In this reduced-feedback contrivance, a whole new set of stimulus/response has to be learned -- and your responses will be duller, less-instantaneous than on any 2-wheeler. Manual VS auto (in a car) - in that milieu, such discussions oft degenerate, as does the focus upon exactly What it is you need to focus Attention upon, in that never-ending hierarchy of relative importance. (What we need here, is a few words from Juan Manuel Fangio - but he be daid.) First, re 2 wheels, an enviro with more variables and more sensitive, direct personal controls: Automatic trans in a 2-wheeler? I'd apply your general imprecations, in spades - to such a smarmy idea (even though there have been several such, usually in scooter-type vehicles.) On 2-wheels, all your comments re Control apply to a fare-thee-well: you Must know exactly how the deceleration of Your engine in That frame responds. In accelerating, you might (once an expert pilot) Want to break traction either quickly or progressively, given the power to possess this choice. (Most often not - but you'd best know when you Should.) Braking! there the dance begins - and much more evidently on 2- than on 4- wheels. You Must know the 'braking' characteristics VS speed, RPM (by ear and feel) of all gears; this because you are adding-to the natural retardation of the engine-as-compressor: by an appropriate application of two separate brakes - at all times and on varying surfaces. Too-many-words needed, even to attempt description of the exquisite balance of brain, hands, both feet, one's CG and that of [you + machine]. IMO and experience - only in a GP type special-purpose vehicle does the 4-wheel experience come even close to that of the feedback of a cycle. Second; 4 wheels: Yes, in playing boy racer - the manual xmission gives the flavour of above control of engine braking + brake-braking and the like. Cruder, but.. it's a Red Herring IMO to endow the action with clutch, gearshift, hand-off-wheel as: a boon!? ie - the distraction being justified because it somehow .. "keeps you awake?" Pshaw - that's not an argument for choosing a manual gearbox in '05; it's an argument for playing boy racer in the twisties, but saddled with the much less legible 'feedback' from the 4- wheeler, as otherwise might have ~made your case. Note the significant difference in 'manual' shifting inside this box,* VS the cycle experience: On the cycle a mere toe-flick raises/drops a gear; either a 1/4" movement of clutch lever (or none - if you match revs) handles the changing, clutching: there, All Done. And your throttle control is also instantaneous, even before fuel injection arrived there, too. In 4- wheel box the foot must move a mile (seemingly); the hand must come off the wheel, perhaps at apex of a chicane (!), move some clumsy lever from some memorized .. position .. to .. another [not 1-2-3-4-n; but up-some-amount; over-another-amount.] Some of those 'gates' look like a Maze. Lastly re Attention: I'd aver that, boy-racing in the twisties aside: a decent modern auto xmission, particularly one with a 'paddle' right in the steering wheel - allows you to place attention with better priorities than with your fav manual drill. What priorities? Attention! is needed on the 360\ufffd environment: the weather, road surface, and #1: the antics of Any drivers near enough to suddenly careen into Your Space. It is NOT to be squandered on the mechanics of moving one's hands OFF the pointing device, dancing one's feet into taking-up-slack of brake pedals or clutch pedals, while sorting out from brain engrams: W.T.F. the next UP/DOWN gear is spatially located? on some far-away transmission hump. As to improvements; ABS and others - My Model has variable-rate steering; less boost at higher speeds; also more (at whatever speed) for more-Sudden action = a [+] for maneuvers. The auto-trans is alas only a 4-speed, no paddle - and while manual override permits a sort-of up/down shift control override: I agree it lacks the precision of a Manual. But this matters little in 99% of situations I encounter on US roads - and the auto is a mondo-Boon in any stop n'go beyond a few minutes. Also, ~28 mpg at 70+ cruise is about same as the 5-speed manual version of my sled, per reports. ABS, as mentioned is of little use as the coefficient of friction approaches that of ice (OK though, in certain grades of snow). I see it as an obv aid to the dull driver and especially for him who Slams On Brakes, in utter panic, in any Interesting situation. That was the target audience, no? For the rest of us, it can be a [+] in intermediate slippery conditions, but will be dumb as Doze on gravel or wet leaves; it is mainly a 'smarter' arbiter of braking force, with the advantage of crudely-independent override on each of the 4-wheels - in a limited range of conditions. Sometimes.. this Can do better than a 'good' driver could have done, without ABS. (And especially for: the very many who drive while semi-full of beer.) For us anointed, it's probably rarely ever engaged (except when both anointed and polluted - see above ;-) I know I had to intentionally test mine, first night of rain, before the road oil was washed away -- as I'd never needed to invoke it. (Also, I figured that the seals in that complex system need periodic exercise - like All seals do). It worked. Yawn. The Saab(s) was stick; I can drive stick. I Like my not-even paddle equipped auto xmission; it's a Gran Turismo, not a Lotus! fer Cthulu sake. (And I affirm that this particular 5-cyl. engine is allegedly near the smoothest of IC engines ever designed .. an engineering quip I have not been able to quantify, yet.) At 7000 rpm, near-limiter: nary a vibe; Really! (Bikes of course can more than double that - still it is Torque that is King, not 'H.P.', as we know.) In your overall contention though, 100% agreement: "INVOLVED" is what every cockamamie asshole within a 2-tonne baby carriage SHOULD Be - from driver-door closed --> switch off; door opened. Videos, 500 Watt audio, cel-fones should be outlawed - in the driver's even peripheral visionscape. (But then, people who live in 'democracies' should fucking be informed actual voters, yada. Neither happy event is likely during this yuga, I wot.) Cheers, Bikers \ufffdber Alles in Die Welt, LLC, FRS, TFFO
Post #236,718 by Andrew Grygus 12/1/05 4:27:47 AM 12/1/05 10:53:16 AM Reply	Well, (corrected Nuvolari) had transmission problems too Specifically with the preselector gearbox in the 1930's MG Magnet (a baby carriage with a supercharger bolted on front). During practices he was constantly spinning out, but fortunately he managed to get the hang of it by race time. The preselector box was an epicyclic gearbox, pretty much the same as an automatic but with a manual clutch. You selected the gear you wanted to be in next, and when you were ready for it you just tapped the clutch and it shifted automatically. (2am brain fart corrected - it was not Fangio who had problems with the MG (too early) it was Nuvolari, his predicessor in fame) [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx] Edited by Andrew Grygus Dec. 1, 2005, 09:10:53 AM EST Edited by Andrew Grygus Dec. 1, 2005, 10:53:16 AM EST Expand All History
Post #236,791 by Ashton 12/1/05 6:51:31 PM Reply	Yea, Tazio! an Italian tenor with fast wheels. One example of his virtuosity - IIRC on the Nurburgring (year unknown), a car lost its oil (rod through case?) Cars were sliding off in all directions, more or less - natch.. Observers said that as Nuvolari approached, his (hands + steering wheel) were a blur; he threaded self through spinning cars and all the oil - and pressed on. I don't think I can imagine a 50 mSec (?) reaction time.. from My jelloware. All I know fershure is: that was Art. What a thing to have seen! Fangio, though Argentinian seemed more restrained off-track, perhaps better suiting the temperament of the umm, methodical Mercedes folk (?)
Post #236,795 by drewk 12/1/05 7:31:27 PM Reply	Speaking of virtuosity Remember Eddie Lawson, Mick Doohan and Wayne Gardner? Yep, they're the guys who were on top when I was paying attention to racing. They did stuff like [link\|http://ftp.newave.net.au/~spcardwd/doohan/mdoohan02.gif\|this], [link\|http://www.ama-admin.com/upl/FDyqxsOVJE_1068487148.jpg\|this] and [link\|http://epll.no-ip.com/fotos/campeons/xLawson.jpg\|this]. They'd come out of a turn wide open on one wheel sliding sideways. Absolutely amazing. But the most incredible I ever saw convinced me someone was in league with the devil. Gardner high-sided coming out of a turn. Most people, when this happens, start curling up and preparing for a hard landing. Not him. He [link\|http://epll.no-ip.com/fotos/campeons/xgardner.jpg\|held on]. And rode away from it. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,815 by Another Scott 12/1/05 10:32:03 PM Reply	Zowie!
Post #236,820 by cforde 12/1/05 11:20:38 PM Reply	dancing with motorcycles Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #236,826 by Ashton 12/2/05 4:24:43 AM Reply	Re: Speaking of virtuosity Yeah.. that's ... .... Nahhh - simply, you Can't DO That; I'm not looking at that picture. You and your photoshopfu are Messing with my Head. Must be the same stuff in the water as in the veins of some of the skateboard folk who have a picture in the attic - and have abolished G\ufffdM₁M₂/R² (while the portrait has bones sticking out of many odd places.) These guys got their first moto at age ~3; never learned fear - and apparently: that alone is the means by which they evolve beyond us mere mortals, with road rash Reminders to contend with. May they live long.. and Dazzle [*]
Post #236,801 by Andrew Grygus 12/1/05 8:10:34 PM Reply	Or, in the words of Ferdinand Porsche . . . "The greatest race driver of this day, or the past, or the future." Nuremberg 1935, driving an old non-competitive Alpha Romeo he beat the combined forces of Mercedes Benz and Auto Union - with Hitler watching in astonishment. Hitler refused to shake his hand and the band, certain of a German victory, hadn't brought music for the Italian national anthem. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,827 by Ashton 12/2/05 4:34:08 AM Reply	Would that some film exists (?) I'm not a very good student of the race-by-race history of those years - just snatches. But in my time machine chron list is a spot to see That one. As the techno gets more sophisticated, even surreal -- we've Lost something important IMO. It isn't just about some stupid clock with numbers for the records spreadsheet. (Doesn't anyone Get That?)
Post #236,834 by Another Scott 12/2/05 8:08:08 AM Reply	Who here reads Hungarian? 21 kB .img [link\|http://f1hirek.hu/?t=article&id=4702\|Tazio]. [image\|http://f1hirek.hu/kepek/huge/Tazio_nuvolari.jpg\|0\|Tazio Nuvolari\|266\|400] 1933-ban N\ufffdmetorsz\ufffdgban Hitler \ufffdtvette a hatalmat. Az \ufffdj n\ufffdmet kancell\ufffdr im\ufffddta a gyors aut\ufffdkat, \ufffdgy az aut\ufffdversenyez\ufffdst is a nemzeti szocializmus propagand\ufffdj\ufffdnak emelv\ufffdnyek\ufffdnt haszn\ufffdlta. AZ Ez\ufffdstnyilak a n\ufffdmet korm\ufffdny t\ufffdmogat\ufffds\ufffdt \ufffdlvezt\ufffdk, azonban a nemzetk\ufffdzi versenyeken m\ufffdgis az olaszok\ufffd volt a főszerep. Az Alfa Romeo sz\ufffdm\ufffdra sok sikert hozott az \ufffdj esztendő, amely Tuniz-ban vette kezdet\ufffdt, ahol Nuvolari \ufffds Borzacchini j\ufffdtszott\ufffdk a főszerepet. A m\ufffdrcius 26-\ufffdn szerzett győzelm\ufffdt k\ufffdvetően Nuvolari a Mille Migli\ufffdn is nagyszerű teljes\ufffdtm\ufffdnyt ny\ufffdjtott, \ufffdgy az \ufffdprilis 9-\ufffdn v\ufffdget \ufffdrő k\ufffdt napos megm\ufffdrettet\ufffdst k\ufffdvetően ő vihette el p\ufffdlm\ufffdt. A Tripoli Nagyd\ufffdjon csak egy hajsz\ufffdlon m\ufffdlott, hogy a Bugatti versenyzője diadalmaskodott az alacsony olasz pil\ufffdta felett. \ufffdprilis 30-\ufffdn Alexandri\ufffdban Nuvolari egy \ufffdjabb győzelemmel lett gazdagabb, amelyet m\ufffdg h\ufffdrom m\ufffdsik k\ufffdvetett az Alfa Romeo-val. A j\ufffdlius 9-\ufffdn rendezett Belga Nagyd\ufffdjon m\ufffdr a Bugatti sz\ufffdneiben \ufffdllt rajthoz, amelyet meg is nyert. [...] Az 1935-\ufffds esztendőben Nuvolari m\ufffdg a halhatatlanok list\ufffdj\ufffdra is feliratkozott. A N\ufffdmet Nagyd\ufffdjra, amelyre j\ufffdlius 28-\ufffdn ker\ufffdlt sor, Nuvolari m\ufffdr n\ufffdgy győzelemmel a tarsoly\ufffdban \ufffdrkezett meg. Az Alfa Romeo teljes\ufffdtm\ufffdnye k\ufffdzel sz\ufffdz l\ufffderővel gyeng\ufffdbb volt, mint a n\ufffdmet aut\ufffdk\ufffd, azonban az olasz szt\ufffdrpil\ufffdt\ufffdnak a nem t\ufffdl kedvező k\ufffdr\ufffdlm\ufffdnyek ellen\ufffdre is siker\ufffdlt futamot nyernie. A versenyt 300.000 n\ufffdző k\ufffds\ufffdrte figyelemmel, \ufffds Hitler Birodalmi M\ufffdrk\ufffdk sz\ufffdzezreivel t\ufffdmogatta a Mercedes \ufffds az Auto Union csapatait, ez\ufffdrt a n\ufffdmetek b\ufffdztak abban, hogy saj\ufffdt aut\ufffdik viszik el a p\ufffdlm\ufffdt ezen a megm\ufffdrettet\ufffdsen. Az első k\ufffdr ut\ufffdn Nuvolari Caracciola m\ufffdg\ufffdtt volt, a kilencedik k\ufffdrre azonban Bernd Rosemeyer, Fagioli \ufffds Chiron m\ufffdg\ufffd esett vissza egy ker\ufffdkcser\ufffdt k\ufffdvetően. Ebből a kil\ufffdt\ufffdstalan helyzetből az olasz versenyzőnek siker\ufffdlt felz\ufffdrk\ufffdznia a m\ufffdsodik helyre, majd az utols\ufffd k\ufffdrben a tizen\ufffdt m\ufffdsodperces h\ufffdtr\ufffdny\ufffdt is ledolgozta, amivel n\ufffdmet k\ufffdz\ufffdns\ufffdg előtt diadalmaskodott. Egyes elmond\ufffdsok szerint mindenk\ufffdppen n\ufffdmet győzelemre sz\ufffdm\ufffdtottak, ez\ufffdrt nem volt bek\ufffdsz\ufffdtve az olasz himnusz lemeze, azonban Nuvolari mindig mag\ufffdn\ufffdl hordott egyet, s \ufffdgy volt ez ezen a vas\ufffdrnapon is, ez\ufffdrt Hitler csal\ufffddotts\ufffdg\ufffdra az \ufffdnnepl\ufffds sem maradt el. A little more intelligible text to my eyes is at the [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazio_Nuvolari\|Wikipedia]. A report on the 1935 German Grand Prix is [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935_German_Grand_Prix\|here]. I haven't found a link to film yet. This was Nuvolari's greatest race because with a car lacking 100 horses to his strongest foes, he had beaten eight German cars, Lang being the only German retirement. Von Brauchitsch however would probably had been the winner hadn't the Mercedes team neglected to order him into the pits sometimes around on lap 18. When it was done, they all had a big tea party and Nuvolari stood up on a table and sang show tunes for everybody. A great time was had by all. I'll bet! :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #236,835 by Andrew Grygus 12/2/05 8:21:19 AM Reply	Comprehensive site in English . . . But no film: [link\|http://www.tazionuvolari.it/indexuk.htm\|Nuvolari]. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,837 by pwhysall 12/2/05 8:32:12 AM Reply	While we're reminiscing... (new thread) Created as new thread #236836 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=236836\|While we're reminiscing...] Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,542 by dmcarls 11/30/05 10:59:10 AM Reply	On being involved... I guess what I was thinking when I wrote the original post wasn't necessarily about driving, although my post implied that. Involvement, as marketing professionals know all too well, is a very tricky thing. People have so many things in their lives tugging at them from so many directions, that most of them welcome a little relief, in the form of a mechanical device (automatic shift) to remove some of that day-to-day complexity. A car is complicated, people just want it 'to work'. Hence the intense scrutiny on Consumer Report's 'Service History' of cars. Politics is complicated, so we get a low-level of involvement. For some people, the stock market is difficult, so now we have people called 'fund managers', and laws such as 401(k). Some people (present company excluded) find personal computer difficult and while they want to hand over some tasks to the machine, they experience trepidation in doing so, because they just don't understand how it's actually doing it's function. I feel that the shift (pun intended) to automatic transmissions is just a part of this thread of complexity running through the average person's daily life. Remember IBM's theme of years ago? "Machines should work, people should think." I guess I've used up my 2 cents, please forgive the rambling.
Post #236,569 by Andrew Grygus 11/30/05 1:18:02 PM Reply	Yeah, and we know damned well what that 'other things' is. It's called a "cell phone". I'm begining to think it's impossible for a woman to drive a vehicle without one of those things held to her ear - though I see plenty of "girly-men" doing the same. It's particularly bad during the "soccer mom hour" on weekdays and occasionally results in SUVs attempting to mate. If these folks didn't have to steer they'd be holding a Starbucks cup in the other hand. They have to alternate now, so they'd love to have a road that drives the car for them. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,591 by admin 11/30/05 1:57:52 PM Reply	Er, no. My wife doesn't use a cell phone while she's driving. Period. I can attest to that, given the number of calls I've gotten from my son while he's in the back seat. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #236,592 by Andrew Grygus 11/30/05 1:59:27 PM Reply	There's always those pesky exceptions aren't there? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,593 by admin 11/30/05 2:01:20 PM Reply	Whoops. Thought you were replying to my post, not the parent. Yes, she is an exception from that standpoint. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

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