Turkey's in the Tub Tonight

Post #235,609 by Andrew Grygus 11/23/05 12:50:54 AM 11/28/05 5:32:13 PM Reply	Turkey's in the Tub Tonight Soaking overnight in brine. I'll take it out in the morning and that'll give it over 24 hours to air dry in the spare fridge. Didn't have time for air dry last year. For anyone interested, the [link\|http://www.clovegarden.com/ingred/turkeyroast.html\|turkey roasting article] I wrote last year is still up [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx] Edited by Andrew Grygus Nov. 28, 2005, 05:32:13 PM EST Expand All History
Post #235,684 by bionerd 11/23/05 12:05:17 PM Reply	I have never cooked a turkey in my life. That's what my mother is for. Follow your MOUSE
Post #235,691 by Andrew Grygus 11/23/05 12:41:09 PM Reply	Well, my article's there for you when . . . . . . your kids start saying that. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #235,694 by bionerd 11/23/05 12:59:24 PM Reply	I suppose I better take at look at it. My mom wont live forever. Handling a 20 lb turkey carcass is not something I look forward to doing, though, unless of course, I'm preparing it for dissection rather than consumption. What do you know about tofurkery? And, BTW, enjoy your holiday. :-) Follow your MOUSE
Post #235,697 by Yendor 11/23/05 1:05:23 PM Reply	Personally... ...I'd rather learn more about turducken than tofurkey. -YendorMike "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Post #235,698 by bionerd 11/23/05 1:08:02 PM Reply	Turkey stuffed with a duck and a chicken? That is so wrong. Follow your MOUSE
Post #235,703 by Yendor 11/23/05 1:26:47 PM Reply	Exactly. A whole boneless chicken. Surrounded by stuffing. Stuffed inside a whole boneless duck. Surrounded by stuffing. Stuffed inside a turkey. Le yum! -YendorMike "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Post #235,707 by Another Scott 11/23/05 1:52:36 PM Reply	Can you say "salmonella"? I knew that you could. Americans want instant gratification. Who's going to [link\|http://www.chefpaul.com/turducken.html\|cook that thing] for 8 hours at 225 degrees after spending a couple of days preparing everything? My guess is that most of the time the turkey ends up burnt and the chicken ends up undercooked. :-( Some things are just too much trouble to do at home - like flushing the water heater.... Cheers, Scott.
Post #235,711 by Yendor 11/23/05 2:07:36 PM Reply	I don't have a problem with cooking... ...something that tastes as good as I imagine a Turducken tasting for as long as it needs. But then, I hardly think of myself as a typical instant-gratification American. -YendorMike "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Post #235,761 by Silverlock 11/23/05 7:37:35 PM Reply	The problem is getting the interior up to temp The "official" danger zone is between 40 and 140 degrees for more than 4 hours. How long does it take that chicken in the middle of it all to get above the danger zone? [link\|http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/2005_Hotline_Planner_Text/index.asp\|USDA] ----------------------------------------- No new taxes. --George H. W. Bush We don't torture. --George W. Bush
Post #235,820 by Andrew Grygus 11/24/05 1:12:41 AM Reply	It's going to be in the danger zone for some time . . . . . so there will be some microbe proliferation. On the other hand, the USDA says all the microbes are dead by 165°F and will then do no harm (privately they've said they're all dead by 150°F but they like to err on the side of safety). If you make absolutely sure the center is at 160°F you can pull it and let it rest for 1/2 hour (as you always should with a turkey). The center temperature should soon climb to 165°F and you should be safe. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #235,806 by imqwerky 11/23/05 11:15:49 PM Reply	The best way to prepare a Turducken is to order one! :) Now that is what I call "Instant Gratification"! Peace, Amy "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
Post #235,901 by broomberg 11/24/05 4:04:39 PM Reply	From where?
Post #235,902 by broomberg 11/24/05 4:05:32 PM Reply	Ahh - here [link\|http://www.cajungrocer.com/default.php?cPath=15_24\|http://www.cajungroc...t.php?cPath=15_24]
Post #235,830 by pwhysall 11/24/05 2:53:32 AM Reply	Turd-uck-en? Sounds delicious. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #235,715 by Andrew Grygus 11/23/05 2:29:04 PM Reply	Preferred by 99.74% of farm raised turkeys. It also looks pretty easy to carve - a tofu based cylinder with a smaller cylinder of "stuffing" in the middle. Some vegetarians like it, some don't. I haven't had it so I can't comment at this time. Soy foods have [link\|http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm\|serious health concerns] but these are not well publicised because soy marketing has the full political and economic clout of Archer Daniels Midlands, Cargill and thir ilk behind it and has become the darling of the vegan set and vegetarian converts who crave "meatiness". Fermented soy products (soy sauce, etc.) are safe because the nasties are destroyed by fermentation and tofu is reasonably safe because the nasties have been mostly discarded with the liquid. TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein) and other products are more controversial. I found no reference to TVP on the Tofurkey site so I can't say it contains any, possibly not given their "all natural" attitude. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #235,805 by imqwerky 11/23/05 11:11:41 PM Reply	I have read about the bad side of soy I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has reservations about its benefits. Peace, Amy "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
Post #235,869 by bionerd 11/24/05 10:51:07 AM Reply	I would never eat a Tofurkey I was just curious. But I didnt realize soy was so bad. So where do I get my protein? I eat dairy- a lot of yogurt and milk. I'm big on smoothies. I eat eggs on occassion, but am not a huge fan, plus there is the whole cholesterol thing. There's legumes- I eat those. Peanut butter of course, but it is high calories with a lot of trans fats. I try to find veggies with protein. I'm slowly starting to add back some chicken/turkey back in, mostly 'cause I cook it for the kids. What else? Follow your MOUSE
Post #235,874 by jake123 11/24/05 11:25:21 AM 11/24/05 11:31:38 AM Reply	Peanut butter does not have a lot of trans fats; Kraft's edible peanut spreadable product crap with the hydrogenated vegetable oil in it does. If you buy pure peanut butter, there are no trans fats in it, and it tastes better too. You just have to stir and refrigerate it when you first get it; avoiding that is what all the trans fats they put in it buys you. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by jake123 Nov. 24, 2005, 11:31:38 AM EST Expand All History
Post #235,885 by Another Scott 11/24/05 12:17:39 PM Reply	Be careful. Get your information from several sources. Snopes has an article on [link\|http://www.snopes.com/toxins/soya.asp\|Soy and the thyriod]. Here's an article from the Institute for Food Research, what claims to be an independent group, in the UK on [link\|http://www.ifrn.bbsrc.ac.uk/public/FoodInfoSheets/soya.html\|soya]: About two-thirds of all manufactured food products contain derivatives or ingredients made from soya. I don't think you're going to get away from it easily. Here's a link to a review article at NIH: [link\|http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8058523&query_hl=1\|Soy intake and cancer risk: a review of the in vitro and in vivo data.]: Of the 26 animal studies of experimental carcinogenesis in which diets containing soy or soybean isoflavones were employed, 17 (65%) reported protective effects. No studies reported soy intake increased tumor development. The epidemiological data are also inconsistent, although consumption of nonfermented soy products, such as soymilk and tofu, tended to be either protective or not associated with cancer risk; however, no consistent pattern was evident with the fermented soy products, such as miso. Protective effects were observed for both hormone- and nonhormone-related cancers. While a definitive statement that soy reduces cancer risk cannot be made at this time, there is sufficient evidence of a protective effect to warrant continued investigation. [link\|http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_087.html\|Moderation] in one's diet is probably key. :-) In short, don't take the repors on a single site at face value. Look around at all of the evidence if you're concerned. But mostly, be moderate in your diet - eat a variety of foods - and don't worry! Soy is not as bad as [link\|http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4088345.stm\|dioxin], though you might think so from reading some of the sites out there. :-( HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #235,889 by Andrew Grygus 11/24/05 12:53:50 PM Reply	Soy's effect on reducing breast cancer is pretty much . . . . . discredited. No protective effect was found by researchers working on the project and they have turned their focus to seaweed, also significant in the diet of the subject group in Japan. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #235,890 by Andrew Grygus 11/24/05 1:05:50 PM Reply	I spent quite a number of years as a vegetarian . . . . . though my policy was to accept anything served when I was a guest. When I started out the protein thing was a major concern. Turned out, due to protein industry pressure, the government's minimum protein recommendation at the time bordered on the danger zone. It has been significantly reduced since then but still is far from minimal. Turned out getting enough protein wasn't a problem, and health gurus' shrill warnings that every meal must be protein balanced also fell to research. If you're balanced within three meals that's probably sufficient. Grains vs. beans are, of course the classic balancers. Corn is a particularly unbalanced protein source and lots of beans are needed in corn dependent cultures. Current results, both research and demographic, point to the "Medeterranean diet" as the healthiest. This diet is low in meat, high in vegetables, olive oil, wine, rice and pasta, and easy to make entirely vegetarian without losing flavor. Turkish is also good for that. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #235,898 by pwhysall 11/24/05 3:30:59 PM Reply	And almost completely un-Atkins. The Mediterranean diet, that is. Lookit all them CARBS! Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #235,906 by Andrew Grygus 11/24/05 4:36:45 PM Reply	Yeahbut - even the Atkins Foundation admits . . . . . that Atkins is an extreme weight loss diet that will result in hair loss - though they say it results in less hair loss than other extreme weight loss diets. Besides, Atkins is rapidly going out of style in California, so the whole Western World will be following within weeks (the rest of the world never had the option). The Wall Street Journal has been reporting the woes of companies that bet on "low carb", particularly those that were late to market, for some time - but now the mainstream as well. Further, a diet that improves your health and longivity while also being (several of) the most flavorful and enjoyable cuisines in the world is worth the few extra pounds Atkins may or may not have removed. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #235,932 by imqwerky 11/24/05 7:20:04 PM Reply	There are other ways of getting protein besides peanuts/peanut butter. I bought a jar of roasted Tahini (sesame seeds). Yum! Nice change of pace. Also, I buy almonds, walnuts and cashews to munch on. Sometimes I buy almond butter (can be expensive, but sometimes like the change as well.) The combo of rice with beans makes a complete protein. The main thing is that the foods combine over a few days. I don't think there is anything wrong with a day without protein. We have been brainwashed by the meat and dairy producers to consume x amount. I say phooeey! As long as you are eating a variety of good, nutritious foods, then you are eating right and getting what your body needs. WRT, soy, I was so impressed with Arbonne International's nutrional products that I signed up to sell their stuff. Their chocolate weight loss shake has no soy protein and uses stevia and lo han as sweeteners. It tastes pretty good, for a protein shake. It is something to grab when I need something fast and nutritious and best of all, you just mix it with water. It is much more healthful than a Slimfast (and cheaper too.) Ugh, gotta stop talking about food before I pop! Peace, Amy "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
Post #235,942 by tonytib 11/24/05 8:22:17 PM Reply	But soy's good stuff; how can you live without stinky tofu? [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinky_tofu\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinky_tofu]
Post #235,954 by imqwerky 11/24/05 10:20:08 PM Reply	:-D "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
Post #235,891 by andread 11/24/05 1:38:30 PM Reply	Listen to the poet Talking Turkeys by Benjamin Zephaniah \t Be nice to yu turkeys dis christmas Cos' turkeys just wanna hav fun Turkeys are cool, turkeys are wicked An every turkey has a Mum. Be nice to yu turkeys dis christmas, Don't eat it, keep it alive, It could be yu mate, an not on your plate Say, Yo! Turkey I'm on your side. I got lots of friends who are turkeys An all of dem fear christmas time, Dey wanna enjoy it, dey say humans destroyed it An humans are out of dere mind, Yeah, I got lots of friends who are turkeys Dey all hav a right to a life, Not to be caged up an genetically made up By any farmer an his wife. Turkeys just wanna play reggae Turkeys just wanna hip-hop Can yu imagine a nice young turkey saying, 'I cannot wait for de chop', Turkeys like getting presents, dey wanna watch christmas TV, Turkeys hav brains an turkeys feel pain In many ways like yu an me. I once knew a turkey called...Turkey He said "Benji explain to me please, Who put de turkey in christmas An what happens to christmas trees?", I said "I am not too sure turkey But it's nothing to do wid Christ Mass Humans get greedy an waste more dan need be An business men mek loadsa cash'. Be nice to yu turkey dis christmas Invite dem indoors fe sum greens Let dem eat cake an let dem partake In a plate of organic grown beans, Be nice to yu turkey dis christmas An spare dem de cut of de knife, Join Turkeys United an dey'll be delighted An yu will mek new friends 'FOR LIFE'. TALKING TURKEYS by Benjamin Zephaniah (Viking, 1994) Copyright \ufffd Benjamin Zephaniah, 1994. Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #235,893 by Another Scott 11/24/05 1:56:54 PM Reply	:-)
Post #235,930 by imqwerky 11/24/05 7:09:04 PM Reply	Dat's adoramable! "It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
Post #235,938 by Andrew Grygus 11/24/05 8:00:00 PM Reply	138 degrees and rising . . . This newfangled temperature probe on a cable is cool (well, actually it's kind of hot right at the moment). Insantaneous internal temperature readings without opening the oven door. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #235,995 by drewk 11/25/05 1:27:12 PM Reply	I don't cook without it any more === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #235,951 by admin 11/24/05 10:03:52 PM Reply	Thanks from my dad... He took a number of your tips from the article and enjoyed the result. He'd already bought a self-baster, though, so no brining. Flipping the bird turned out to be key. Huh huh uh huh. I said, "flipping the bird." Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #235,991 by Andrew Grygus 11/25/05 1:14:48 PM Reply	Glad someone found it useful . . . . . and 'flipping the bird' can be thereputic, though in this case it's more practical. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,343 by Andrew Grygus 11/28/05 5:37:16 PM Reply	My turkey roasting article has been expanded and . . . . . revised with separate pages for stuffing/dressing, gravy and carving. I still need to add a section on leftovers though. You'll now find it here: [link\|http://www.clovegarden.com/ingred/turkeyroast.html\|Roasting a Turkey] - at least you'll find it if the DNS has propegated. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,363 by broomberg 11/28/05 10:24:41 PM Reply	typo change the water ever 30 minutes
Post #236,364 by Another Scott 11/28/05 10:34:23 PM Reply	Very nicely done. Thanks.
Post #236,380 by drewk 11/29/05 12:57:26 AM Reply	Nice to see the URL come to life === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,388 by cforde 11/29/05 2:07:12 AM Reply	ugh, I read that as: if the DNA has propogated. Have fun, Carl Forde
Post #236,391 by Andrew Grygus 11/29/05 2:55:48 AM Reply	Well, that's propagat'n too . . . . . an' it's commin' ta git ya! [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,432 by tonytib 11/29/05 1:07:39 PM Reply	You do live in an excellent location for your plans of world cuisine domination. For example, one of the biggest importers of Spanish food is in the LA area. After having sampled a lot of everyday Chinese cuisine, I have mixed feelings about it; for example, I prefer lighter sauces in general. Tony
Post #236,453 by Andrew Grygus 11/29/05 3:40:12 PM Reply	China is a veeeeeeeeery big country. Don't like the cuisine from one region, try another. On the other hand, Southeast Asia has a lot to to offer - a blend of native, Indian, Muslim and Chinese - different in each country - well, actually, different at each end of each country. Lots of special ingredients, of course. Only things I recall not finding here in Los Angeles yet are a reliable supply of kaffir limes and kaffir lime leaves (I have my own tree but it's barely big enough for me) and one form of ginger. Somebody around here is supplying that stuff but I haven't found 'em yet. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #236,465 by tonytib 11/29/05 4:56:52 PM Reply	I've tried quite a few home-style sichuan (including not spicy dishes), restaurant sichuan, cantonese soups, various kinds of wonton, eggs poached with rice & rice wine, etc. Some of it is quite good, for example, fresh made wonton and fresh made potstickers are much, much better than frozen. Some of it may be good, but doesn't appeal to me (e.g. tofu). I find it fascinating how foods travel around the world and get used. For example, at least in the SFBA, there are plenty of Chinese bakeries, but what they bake is very different from American bakeries. It's also interesting to see how Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, Italians, and Spaniards (e.g. paella) all use rice differently. Tony
Post #236,467 by Andrew Grygus 11/29/05 5:01:41 PM Reply	Try Laos for rice. They use sticky rice as their main rice (most cultures use it for deserts). It's soaked for a number of hours depending on months since harvesting (anything in the U.S. will be 12 hours soak), then steam it in baskets. When served it's the eating utensile. You pick up a lump of it in your fingers and use that lump to pick up or soak up other items, then eat them together. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]

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